Thread: Dbol, deca, test. Second cycle

Originally Posted by bulk_cut

You should really spend more time reading and a lot less time talking!! For one I have no idea what you're talking about as far as me not taking people's advice for PCT and having problems - I've been on TRT for years. Second, yes he should NOT take Deca and I don't think anyone who's not on TRT should ever take Deca. It has a ridiculously long ester and stays in your body for a long time and can make recovery VERY hard since it shuts you down hard. NPP is the EXACT same compound with a much shorter ester so it doesn't have the negative side effects of Deca and clears the body MUCH sooner making PCT much easier and increasing the possibility of recovery and is what he should use instead. Third, he's brand new to AAS and can/will still make gains off of a test only cycle so why should he use more compounds and put his body under more stress??? Just because you fucked up and did it that way doesn't make it right. People should ALWAYS use the least amount of compounds possible to accomplish their goals - and in this case test only will do that. Especially since I'm pretty sure OP hasn't gotten to the point where his diet is PERFECT and he knows how to tweak it to get more/better gains before upping his AAS use.

And just because I'm a nice guy and don't want you to continue walking around as completely ignorant as you are right now, I've attached an article on Aromasin and it's use during PCT for you to read and learn something already instead of trying to call out people like myself who clearly know more than you.

Aromasin Dosage for Increased Endogenous Testosterone Secretion and PCT (Post Cycle Therapy)

It is very clear that Aromasin can increase Testosterone levels in males as demonstrated by studies. One particular study selected 12 healthy young male test subjects, and were administered random Aromasin doses of 25mg and 50mg for a 10 day period, and not only was Estrogen suppressed by a significant amount (38%), but Testosterone levels in the test subjects were observed to increase by an incredible 60%[1]. Boosting the endogenous Testosterone production in men by an impressive 60% is not the only major benefit that Aromasin possesses. Aromasin also holds additional benefits that essentially make it the ‘king’ aromatase inhibitor for the purpose of HPTA and Testosterone recovery during PCT above all other aromatase inhibitors. The stimulation of endogenous Testosterone secretion is a characteristic common of all aromatase inhibitors and is due to the fact that excess Estrogen will cause a negative feedback loop response of the HPTA to initiate Testosterone suppression.


In addition to generating a considerable increase in endogenous Testosterone output, Aromasin also holds several advantages and effects over other aromatase inhibitors that do not exhibit them. For example, a common attribute of all aromatase inhibitors is the unfortunate effect of altering cholesterol levels in a very negative manner (reduction of the ‘good’ HDL cholesterol and increasing the ‘bad’ LDL cholesterol). This is due in large part to the drop in Estrogen levels, as well as the aromatase inhibitor’s actions themselves. Aromasin has demonstrated in several studies that it impacts cholesterol profiles far less than other aromatase inhibitors have, where in one particular study on cancer patients, 24 weeks of Aromasin (Exemestane) administration held no impact on cholesterol profiles[2]. Some of the same studies mentioned have also demonstrated a nil effect on cholesterol profiles from the use of Aromasin[1]. However, some other studies have displayed an alteration in cholesterol values from Aromasin administration, but that it was not as significant or as negatively impacting as other aromatase inhibitors[3].


In addition to the lack of negative effects on cholesterol profiles, Aromasin has also demonstrated in the same study that linkedAromasin to an increase in endogenous Testosterone production to also un-alter serum IGF-1 levels, which is something uncommon among aromatase inhibitors1. At its worst, it may lower IGF-1 levels slightly, which is a significant difference from all other aromatase inhibitors, and Aromasin has also been found to lower concentrations of IGF-1 binding protein-3 (a protein that binds to and inhibits IGF-1)1. This is all very good information to the anabolic steroid using athlete who wishes to recover efficiently and quickly during the PCT weeks following the termination of a cycle, as IGF-1 is very important for muscle gains. But the benefits of Aromasin do not stop there.


There is one issue with the addition of the other two aromatase inhibitors (Arimidex and Letrozole) in a PCT program that includes the use of SERMs such as Nolvadex and Clomid, which are known as absolutely essential components to a PCT program. The problem here is that Arimidex and Nolvadex both directly counteract one another. One study has demonstrated that when Arimidex is utilized with Nolvadex, Nolvadex will decrease blood plasma concentration of Arimidex (as well as Letrozole, another commonly used aromatase inhibitor)[4]. The conclusion here is that the use of Arimidex or Letrozole with Nolvadex together is a very bad idea and may work counterproductively if used together in a PCT protocol.


Aromasin completely circumvents this problem, as it has been demonstrated to have no interactions what so ever with Nolvadex, unlike the other two aforementioned aromatase inhibitors. In one study, Aromasin displayed no reduced effectiveness, nor any reduced blood plasma levels when utilized with Nolvadex[5]. Nolvadex is also very well known for reducing blood plasma levels of IGF-1 during use[6]. This might possibly indicate that Aromasin may assist to maintain stable IGF-1 levels or at the very least do nothing to further worsen Nolvadex’s effects on IGF-1. Therefore, from all of the information gathered, Aromasin and Nolvadex when utilized together for PCT are very complimentary with one another, making Aromasin the absolute best aromatase inhibitor not only for general use but also for HPTA recovery during PCT (or at any other time).


A sufficient Aromasin dosage for HPTA recovery during PCT would be 25mg daily for no longer than a 4 week period while Nolvadex would be utilized for a total of 4 weeks at 20 – 40mg daily.

You're oneof the ones who sits and reads all the books and shit online and believes everything with no real world experience.......ill leave it at that because there is no point in having a conversation with someone not interested in learning.... i am just so happy we have an expert here now to debunk all the pro's on this site so we are all running gear correctly now..maybe you can give advice to some of the guys here that have been going on stage running there gear wrong........ good luck with your cycles. heading to go do a big ass shot of deca just for you my friend.

Agreed, a classic bulker. Deca is effective at that dose though admittedly I used to believe larger was required. I still think longer runs of 14-20 weeks can continue to yield nice gains you will see some good mass at that length. I pin deca once a week but have started injecting test every 5th day, results are noticeable for me.

[QUOTE,=PAiN;291355]Cycle looks good brother. It is one of my favorites. Nothing puts size on me like Deca.

Why not start a log on here and keep us updated on your progress?[/QUOTE]

As long as we are learning and opening each other up to new ideas that's what it's about yall.

Originally Posted by Apex Peptides

Hmm....strange, but funny! It's interesting to see different people's points of view. There was some good info/advice posted though. I certainly learned something. Good posts guys.

Don't let the test only heads get you down, it looks good to me. I'd use aromasin though

Thanks for all the advice. I'm definitely going to do a log and I'll share it.

As far as switching to aromasin I have looked into it. I don't really want to have to put another order in at a 400 minimum for the one product but will if necessary. Has anyone heard of or tried Liquiaromas? I would be able to place a quick and efficient order for it and have heard its the same. Thoughts?

Originally Posted by Bjwatson83

Liquiaromas? I would be able to place a quick and efficient order for it and have heard its the same. Thoughts?

That is supposedly aromasin "for research purposes only" not pharmaceutical grade. Pharm grade I pay around $2 a pill for the name braders, just because I don't trust my AI to a "research" company. I'm sure many of them are good and I've used them in the past, but it seems to be hit and miss with things you don't want to go wrong.