First cycle advice please

**tilltheend** · 01-25-2012, 01:08 AM

I don't know how to use it, if thats what he planned, thats a better cycle, hes going to run what he wants. Thats not too much for a first cycle either. Thats all hearsay. All he is doing is switching orals, no where near too much, all that is is a regular cycle. I told him I do not know how to use hcg but I guess if he uses it, use it halfway through his cycle. Because his testicles will shrink by that time if anything, and then by the time he is coming off, he can drop the hcg. I have heard hcg can be supressive. Like I said though, that isn't a bad first cycle at all. I hear of people doing test only. All he is doing is using an oral, and then switching it, nothing wrong with that. Infact I think I did the same thing my first cycle aswell, but I switched injects.

**Pointer1** · 01-25-2012, 01:23 AM

Keep it stupid simple but get serious first. Gear is not a cure for laziness or food. Test 500mg a week and save the AI until you need it. I don't see the point unless you are experiencing sides and taking it otherwise will slightly hinder gains. HCG has several different protocols including random use throughout to maintain your boys. The reason why I say you should do 1 compound first is to see how it affects you. If it's your first cycle and your busting 2-3 compounds and catch sides then you have no idea which is causing it and how to battle it. You will grow on test only and i'm sure you want the dbol for instant gains but remember without proper diet and exercise and your little frame you can say bye bye to the gains after pct. This is a lifestyle change bro.

**STEROID** · 01-25-2012, 03:46 AM

Originally Posted by Pointer1

Keep it stupid simple but get serious first. Gear is not a cure for laziness or food. Test 500mg a week and save the AI until you need it. I don't see the point unless you are experiencing sides and taking it otherwise will slightly hinder gains. HCG has several different protocols including random use throughout to maintain your boys. The reason why I say you should do 1 compound first is to see how it affects you. If it's your first cycle and your busting 2-3 compounds and catch sides then you have no idea which is causing it and how to battle it. You will grow on test only and i'm sure you want the dbol for instant gains but remember without proper diet and exercise and your little frame you can say bye bye to the gains after pct. This is a lifestyle change bro.

Well said.No need for anything other than test for a first cycle brother.Drop the HCG and drop the winny.No need for either of them.The HCG is best run throughout your cycle to help keep you boys working so pct will be easier but with a basic test only cycle,a normal pct of nolva and clomid you should bounce back with ease.

You'll make plenty of gains with test if your training and diet are right on.The dbol kickstart is good so you can include that but otherwise keep it simple.Check out the cycle protocol threads brother.

**griggs64** · 01-25-2012, 11:43 PM

thanks - this is what i need a good debate on the go so i can see the diff opinions. Will look at the cycle protocol threads bro n thanks for the advice guys. the diet and working out hard isn't hard to get back into for me. i only started increasing the bf over the last 6 months or so. i got the idea in my head to have a bit of a lazy spell cause i broke my leg pretty bad thus the cardio went out the window. i basically kept benching in my flat in the mean time. iused to box a lot when i was younger so going up (a little) and down the weight is quite easy for me. Getting some good bulk is a diff matter tho!

Icon- pharma - i was wondering if you could elaborate for me bro - on the pre cycle clomid.

So taking into account the new advice i would prob be best with: pre cycle clomid (as above) then possibly dbol (as a kickstart) and test cyp - then pct clomid & nolva. or to simply go for test cyp (at what dose and how often i'm not sure?) and pct as above. With the option to add HCG. I was reading an article that suggested HCG should be used throughout the cycle rather than after - seemingly tests show the balls shrink quite fast and HCG prevents damage at an early stage if taken throughout.

Anymore advice would be much appreciated brothers

**STEROID** · 01-26-2012, 12:33 AM

Here brother,take a look at this.It will answer all of you questions.Not to be a dick,but learning the basics should be a must for anyone even thinking of cycling.Research and learn as much as you possibly can and than research some more.You'll be surprised at how much you can learn from just reading up form the posts here on board and once you get the basics down,many of your above questions you will already be able to answer.

Nothing wrong with asking questions,as you should.We all should.But theres also nothing wrong with learning all you can first.Its a dangerous game brother.Make sure you take you time and do it right.

http://www.brotherhoodofpain.com/showthread.php?3514-Cycles-Newbie-to-Advanced

http://www.brotherhoodofpain.com/sho...ycle-Protocols

**psa5** · 01-26-2012, 04:30 AM

Originally Posted by griggs64

I'm 36, 5.7 - 10.8 stone - i can diet right and i work hard in the gym when i'm in the zone. But size is just something i'm struggling with!!!

I dont mean to be harsh, but your stats say otherwise. How long have your been consistently training? What does your diet look like? What is your routine? Until you get all these variables in tune you wont see "steroid-type" results from any cycle. You'll just put on some water weight the first couple weeks, look bigger and then drop it all once you come off. Struggling with size? Size is a matter of being in a caloric surplus so learn how to eat my man.

Once your ready to cycle, pleassseeee don't do what you've posted, who ever recommend that was utterly confused. 16 week cycle as a noob at 36yrs of age... bulking and cutting at your level of exp... HCG during your grace period... no.

**griggs64** · 01-26-2012, 03:37 PM

don't worry bro's i'm a level headed dude! i will not cycle until i'm ready. this is like the build up period. i'll be in top shape before i cycle! and i have been reading extensively for a good while now some of its clicked. but to get the big picture (and confidence in what i'm about to do) its not quite yet fully clicked. but i certainly won't jump in half arsed. i understand that diet and training is everything (n i love that part) but trust me guys ive had my diet/training in check in the past and i don't put lots of size on naturally. well i'll grow sure but it takes longer for me than for some others ive watched in my time. Was on the ball for about 2.5 years one phase - nearly every day training eating right, stopped the weed n fags. got my pack n some ripped muscle but not lots of size n trust me i was eating large amounts of protein and good carbs, all the supps n shakes, creatine, little cardio, good rest, etc.

So i'm not going to run my pre training for 2.5 year this time before i do a cycle as i know approx where my plateau is. gonna do another 2- 3 months hard training and good eating then im usually back to roughly where i was at my biggest - muscle memory is a handy thing. but then i'm doing a cycle for def and i will not be swayed. Just need the right cycle bro's!

One of the main probs learning the cycles or compounds and what they do is that everyone you speak to has a diff theory on what to take and why - articles contradict themselves quite often or experienced users will contradict articles etc after they read them on forums - which is great but for a beginner trying to unravel the do' and don't mysteries its a nightmare. No one can really agree on whats right and whats wrong - there are however some underlying rules which i'm picking up on but its slow guys - thats why i'm asking for your help - to speed this bit up a touch.

**griggs64** · 01-26-2012, 04:01 PM

what i know so far: better with test cyp to start as if there are bad sides i can stop and its out my system much quicker than test e. HCG is used to stop your baws going into atrophy (although its debatable at what stage to start the course. the run of the mill pct is nolv and clomid but there are others for hair loss etc - can't mind the name! there are more i know but i'm trying to keep it simple. dbol can be a good kick start even on a first cycle. the least compounds i put in at first the better as i can see which ones are causing sides. diet and training are everything both on and off cycle as aas only help you repair and train sooner - its your hard training that puts on size! oh and no alcohol and a good diet/healthy lifestyle can prevent sides also.

So i'm prob best with test cyp on its own with HCG and then PCT nolv and clomid for my first cycle. Do you agree bro's? or as FIST states i may not need HCG at all (can you elaborate please FIST?)

**STEROID** · 01-27-2012, 12:34 AM

From my experience HCG is only needed for very long or SHIC cycles to help make your recovery easier.These cycles are much more harsh and shut you down a lot harder than any normal dosed,normal length cycle.So hcg will help your boys to fully recover a lot easier.The longer you run a cycle and the more you're shit down,the longer and more difficult it is to recover.

When you are first starting to cycle,you do not need to run such heavy or long duration cycles so with a normal pct your recovery will be fine.A normal pct consisting of Nolva & Clomid should be all you need after a test only cycle.

Also,the rule of thumb is...TIME ON = TIME OFF+ Meaning you want to take as much time off as you are on and possibly longer depending on how your body reacts to pct.With that being said,there should be plenty of time for you to recover fully through pct and supplementation and diet.While coming off and during off time,your body requirements will change so you will need to adjust how you eat,train and rest anyway so in combination to your pct,recovery should come quickly & smoothly.

Plus hcg increases your risks of negative side effects as well so why risk it if its not needed? Yes,there are some who are the extreme and will not recover from a pct alone and will need hcg,but they are the rarity.So many just jump on the hcg bandwagon because some guy on the internet told him to saying its needed to make recovery easier.Horror stories of how your balls shrink form AAS and without hcg you're doomed to a life of impotency!! Let me tell you brother,im almost 50 and my youngest son is 4 yrs old so I think my balls are functioning pretty well.You dont know how you will react to cycling so just adding more and more drugs because of the fear that something could happen is just foolish.

Can it make pct easier? Yes,it can,but just adding compounds because it could help or make things easier is not the way to remain healthy in this game brother.You want to not only be GTG today but tomorrow.The way to last and remain healthy is to cycle with the least amount of compounds for as long as you can BEFORE adding more compounds.The longer you continue to make gains on the least amount of gear,the healthier you will be in the long run,not to mention the amount of time and money you will save.

As you get older and your natural hormone levels start diminishing,then hcg will be needed more.

HCG makes things easier?? Who said cycling and bbing was suppose to be easy? Thats the problem today,no one wants to put in the time and work to achieve what they dream of.They just look for an easy solution.When it comes to not only your money but more importantly your lifetime of health,quick or easy is not what you're looking for.

Hope this clears things up for you.This is all my personal opinion based on over 2 decades of cycling and countless others that ive been involved with in this game.Everyone has their own opinions and do what they feel is best so im not saying my way is the right way.Only stating what I know from first hand experience.Take it as you will.