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    Thread: Training on Juice; how it changes the game.

    1. #1
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      Training on Juice; how it changes the game.

      Let's take this routine list for example:
      http://www.clutchfitness.com/forums/...splay.php?f=37

      Which of these programs would you choose if you knew you were going to have maximum recovery potential and maximum gain potential?
      How would you alter it to make use of the AAS, and how do you currently train to make use of your cycles?

      I can't find one damn good thread on training on steroids versus training naturally.

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      In general, I tend to go with higher weight, higher volume sets, more sets, and every set to failure when on cycle. Overtraining is difficult if not impossible when on a cycle and eating properly. When off cycle, I don't do things like negatives, forced reps, running the rack, etc because of overtraining.

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    5. #3
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      Quote Originally Posted by Bigswole View Post
      In general, I tend to go with higher weight, higher volume sets, more sets, and every set to failure when on cycle. Overtraining is difficult if not impossible when on a cycle and eating properly. When off cycle, I don't do things like negatives, forced reps, running the rack, etc because of overtraining.
      I hope this thread takes off. There's not a whole lot of solid evidence or studies about this subject out in the wild... at least, I have yet to see one.

      I tend to adapt Big's mindset. During a cycle I will train 2-3 days on and one day off in between. Off-cycle I train strictly EOD. I've always been under the impression that gear can take the 72 hours that it takes a muscle to fully recover and shorten it to 24 or less based on diet.
      SFW GFH

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      on cycle i lift:

      day 1: Legs, calfs, bi's, forearms
      day 2: chest, tri's
      day 3: back, bi's, forearms
      day 4: shoulders, tri's
      day 5: off for lifting, cardio and abs only
      repeat 5day cycle.

      i generally cut more than i bulk as this is my goal but as greatwhite said on cycle your turn around time for your muscle recovery is very short.

      i tried this routine off cycle... failed miserably, but on cycle i conquer it like a beast! 1hr-1.5 lifting with 20-30min of cardio and abs following it on cycle.

      Just my 2 cents bro's feel free to comment in interested in your thoughts

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    9. #5
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      Quote Originally Posted by bhcolex50x View Post
      i tried this routine off cycle... failed miserably, but on cycle i conquer it like a beast! 1hr-1.5 lifting with 20-30min of cardio and abs following it on cycle.

      Just my 2 cents bro's feel free to comment in interested in your thoughts
      I am a huge advocate of getting in and out of the gym within 45 minutes to an hour, but I think an exception can be made with gear. There would still be a cortisol response from your body undoubtedly, but I highly doubt that cortisol would have much effect on the constant anabolism that is being procured with gear in your system. So basically, my theory is that while on cycle, cortisol may have little to no effect; ie gear has an cortisol-inhibitory effect.

      I wish I could find some studies and abstracts to reinforce my ideas...
      SFW GFH

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      Dame i would love to see some studies on this. To me if you are on cycle, you should be pushing your self harder. 45minutes in and out is good for being natural. But i like to add in another 25minutes to a half hour 2 extra sets each body part. On tren i feel like my body repairs over night, but i always give each body part some respect and let it rest 2 to 3 days on gear before hitting it again.

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    13. #7
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      wish more guys would post on this sub forum! lol

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      Yeah bro, I've been trying to find articles that aren't based on bro science. Med pub doesn't seem to have any studies either.
      SFW GFH

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      i mean even personal experience stories would be better than nothing haha tho true science is always best i mean science is what got us here haha

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      Found one!

      http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22273746

      The anabolic androgenic steroid fluoxymesterone inhibits 11β-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase 2-dependent glucocorticoid inactivation.

      Fürstenberger C, Vuorinen A, Da Cunha T, Kratschmar DV, Saugy M, Schuster D, Odermatt A.
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      Swiss Center for Applied Human Toxicology and Division of Molecular and Systems Toxicology, Department of Pharmaceutical Sciences, University of Basel, Klingelbergstrasse 50, 4056 Basel, Switzerland.

      Abstract

      Anabolic androgenic steroids (AAS) are testosterone derivatives used either clinically, in elite sports, or for body shaping with the goal to increase muscle size and strength. Clinically developed compounds and non-clinically tested designer steroids often marketed as food supplements are widely used. Despite of considerable evidence for various adverse effects of AAS use, the underlying molecular mechanisms are insufficiently understood. Here, we investigated whether some AAS, as a result of a lack of target selectivity, might inhibit 11β-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase 2 (11β-HSD2)-dependent inactivation of glucocorticoids. Using recombinant human 11β-HSD2 we observed inhibitory effects for several AAS. Whereas oxymetholone, oxymesterone, danazol and testosterone showed medium inhibitory potential, fluoxymesterone was a potent inhibitor of human 11β-HSD2 (IC(50) of 60-100 nM in cell lysates; IC(50) of 160 nM in intact SW-620 and 530 nM in MCF-7 cells). Measurements with rat kidney microsomes and lysates of cells expressing recombinant mouse 11β-HSD2 revealed much weaker inhibition by the AAS tested, indicating that the adverse effects of AAS-dependent 11β-HSD2 inhibition cannot be investigated in rats and mice. Furthermore, we provide evidence that fluoxymesterone is metabolized to 11-oxofluoxymesterone by human 11β-HSD2. Structural modeling revealed similar binding modes for fluoxymesterone and cortisol, supporting a competitive mode of inhibition of 11β-HSD2-dependent cortisol oxidation by this AAS. No direct modulation of mineralocorticoid receptor (MR) function was observed. Thus, 11β-HSD2 inhibition by fluoxymesterone may cause cortisol-induced MR activation, thereby leading to electrolyte disturbances and contributing to the development of hypertension and cardiovascular disease.

      So what I'm getting from this is that AAS do in fact inhibit glucocorticoids but only to an extent. And apparently some are better at it than others. Maybe this might explain some of the unknown mechanisms by which some steroids seem to dry a user out or lean them out... O.o

      This is still anecdotal. There is no information about training, just that AAS somewhat inhibits cortisol.
      SFW GFH

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