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    Thread: Gonna do my 1st Tren cycle soon.

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      I’m 3 weeks into my first tren run and I’m running 400mg/week, pinning everyday. I have almost zero sides, so far it’s been a great cycle. 200mg of test/week.

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      I am currently one day shy of 3 weeks into my first tren run too. Pinning 50mg ED has kept the sides to a minimum. Mild trensomnia and a lot of sweating is about it for me thus far. I don't really attribute the sweating to the tren so much as I run hot in the evenings when I am on just about any AAS. Listen to the advice here about having Caber on hand ...

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      Ahhh...cutin your tren teeth aye lol....hopefully youve done all your research...have everything on hand...ai..caber...etc...just take it slow and steady dont go doubling it up after a few weeks just cuz you not necessarily having any sides.... there are the standard protocols...#test to tren ratios etc....but you will need to assess what best suits you ...as far as caber and ai as well...myself prefer lower test higher tren..and i only use aromasin and caber now and then or if needed...but always have on hand...good luck bro...you need anything feel free to hit me up..BIGPERKS..Gonna do my 1st Tren cycle soon.

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      It is all fiction.. I don't condone any of it in real life. I am not a professional or medical doctor just a figment of your imagination

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      Well I definitely don’t have caber. Guess I need to find some. Anyone sell it without having to spend a minimum? I’m stocked up on just about everything.

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      Quote Originally Posted by NewSchool82 View Post
      Well I definitely don’t have caber. Guess I need to find some. Anyone sell it without having to spend a minimum? I’m stocked up on just about everything.
      We are exspecting it anyday ..and no min...keep your eye out for my announcment bro

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      Quote Originally Posted by cherrybombfitnes View Post
      It’s not a myth it just doesn’t effect everyone the same way. PLUS YOU are taking caber with it which would eliminate your prolactin so of course you aren’t going to notice that. It doesn’t make it a myth just because it doesn’t do that for you specifically. That’s why we should all be careful what advice we throw out to random people. Nolvadex CAN make prolactin receptors more sensitive. Nolvadex is an extremely outdated drug and is neither an AI, nor a prolactin inhibiting drug. Yes it can work for estrogen but it’s taking the long way around a simple problem.


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      Of course I have to take caber while on tren to control prolactin from an over active thyroid. LoL how else am I suppose to control prolactin?

      You do understand that testosterone gyno and tren gyno are two different things right?

      If you’re prone to gyno from both test and tren then you need to take both nolvadex and caber.

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      Gonna do my 1st Tren cycle soon.

      I found this. Maybe a good read and maybe not. It’s up to you to do your own research but from my experience and many of my friends, taking nolvadex doesn’t make gyno worst. However there are some people who claim it does get worst but to flat out say it will make it worst is false.

      “All credits goes to RJ
      For some reason over the last year or so, all i have seen on this board (as I don't visit others) is how devastating it is to use Tamoxifen with 19nors. Now, before we get into this, I don't wanna hear a bunch of parroted shit from people who have no experience with it. I have used Tamoxifen personally while using deca and tren and had no issues with the supposed problems that have said to arisen in the past year or so. I have also done loads of reading on it. So lets have a healthy debate shall we? Humdiddly, feel free to use all the big words you like... as long as I understand them. lol

      Now, here is what my research tells me. Tamoxifen is a mixed ER agonist/antagonist.

      In some tissues, such as the endometrium (uterus), upregulation of the progesterone receptor would be expected, as the endometrium is very sensitive to estrogen. This is where i believe there is confusion.

      In other tissues, such as the breast, Tamoxifen is an antagonist (blocks the ER). The progesterone receptor is synthesized in response to estrogen. So when the ER is blocked (in breast tissue), the progesterone receptor will also down regulate. This is what happens in cancer patients and we're no different.

      Therefore, Tamoxifen will help reduce gyno even when using tren or deca, not make it worse.

      Now, Tamoxifen will down regulate the progesterone receptor in breast tissue. Some "guru's" state Tamoxifen will up regulate the progesterone receptor and cause or lead to gyno. By either worsening estrogenic gyno or by itself. They, therefore, assume Tamoxifen CANT be used with deca or tren, but this is false.

      Now, some of you may be confused about gyno. Maybe this will help.

      You can get gyno (it seems) 3 ways. First off, from estrogen. Second, from progesterone alone, or progesterone making estrogenic gyno worse. And finally, from prolactin.

      Tamoxifen can be used to treat gyno from either deca or tren, whether it be from estrogen or progesterone. BUT Tamoxifen CANNOT treat prolactin induced gyno. But can treat estrogenic gyno or progestenic gyno (if that exists).

      deca and tren will both elevate PRL (Prolactin) levels (although, again debatable). Therefore, for PRL related sides, such as loss of libido, gyno and lactation (although not only from PRL), Caber, Prami or Dostinex need to be used.

      You see, when people use deca and tren, they tend to use Testosterone too. So if they experienced gyno, it may be from estrogen, NOT from deca and tren and again, thus being OK to use Tamoxifen.

      Basically, as progesterone is synthesised in response to estrogen, if you control estrogen, you essentially reduce progesterone sides as well.

      I hope that clears some confusion because you will NOT find a study stating Tamoxifen up regulates the progesterone receptor in breast tissue anywhere. I have never seen a case of gyno solely caused by PgR. It just seems impossible as the PgR is synthesized by the ER (Estrogen Receptor).

      This is from bigcat's steroid profiles, which summarizes some of the above about nolvadex and 19-nor:

      "If indeed the overall yield of estrogen is so much smaller, and so is the rate of androgen receptor stimulation, how then is nandrolone so anabolic? The common belief is through a third receptor : the progesterone receptor. It has been concluded that both nandrolone2 and several of its metabolites3,4 do indeed activate the progesterone receptor and are altered by it. On the one hand progestagenic activity decreases the estrogen receptor concentration in some tissues, it also mediates estrogenic action in other tissues5. So while estrogenic side-effects are fairly uncommon with nandrolone use alone, they can indeed occur and the implications of nandrolone's activity as a progesterone indicate these potential side-effects aren't to be solved with an aromatase inhibitor alone (like Cytadren). As long as there is estrogen in the system (indicating a possible increase of the problem when stacked with another aromatizing compound) progesterone can agonize its effects. And since progesterone receptors are found in breast tissue and have been linked to the formation of milk ducts, progestagenic activity may aggravate possibly gynocomastia. So while such problems are rare, when they occur they aren't easily treated.

      It makes sense then that those particularly prone to the effects and side-effects of estrogen would take extra precaution. Blocking aromatase, considering the previous paragraph, would be a poor choice, but competitively inhibiting the estrogen receptor itself with clomiphene citrate (clomid) or tamoxifen citrate (Nolvadex) might bring some relief since a large portion of progestagenic action is nullified if there is no circulating estrogen around, or if it is kept from being activated by the estrogen receptor."


      One last thing. This thread is not meant to sway anyone from using or not using Tamoxifen with 19nors. Some of you may get worse sides from adding Nolva to a deca or tren laden cycle, but saying everyone will is misinformation.

      As I have said a bilion times, everyone is different. For example, at the end of my cycling days all I took ever was a small amount of Aromasin. And I don't get gyno from even 1g of test a week. But that's me. I have just gotten a little peeved at seeing everyone say DON"T USE NOLVADEX WITH 19NORS OR IT WILL CAUSE PROBLEMS.

      Use should always be conducted following thorough research and then through trial and error. Yes, knowledge from others is great as a start, but you have to find out what works for YOU and only YOU!!!!!”
      Last edited by yoshi925; 06-18-2019 at 05:51 AM.

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    22. #29
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      Gonna do my 1st Tren cycle soon.

      Quote Originally Posted by yoshi925 View Post
      I found this. Maybe a good read and maybe not. It’s up to you to do your own research but from my experience and many of my friends, taking nolvadex doesn’t make gyno worst. However there are some people who claim it does get worst but to flat out say it will make it worst is false.

      “All credits goes to RJ
      For some reason over the last year or so, all i have seen on this board (as I don't visit others) is how devastating it is to use Tamoxifen with 19nors. Now, before we get into this, I don't wanna hear a bunch of parroted shit from people who have no experience with it. I have used Tamoxifen personally while using deca and tren and had no issues with the supposed problems that have said to arisen in the past year or so. I have also done loads of reading on it. So lets have a healthy debate shall we? Humdiddly, feel free to use all the big words you like... as long as I understand them. lol

      Now, here is what my research tells me. Tamoxifen is a mixed ER agonist/antagonist.

      In some tissues, such as the endometrium (uterus), upregulation of the progesterone receptor would be expected, as the endometrium is very sensitive to estrogen. This is where i believe there is confusion.

      In other tissues, such as the breast, Tamoxifen is an antagonist (blocks the ER). The progesterone receptor is synthesized in response to estrogen. So when the ER is blocked (in breast tissue), the progesterone receptor will also down regulate. This is what happens in cancer patients and we're no different.

      Therefore, Tamoxifen will help reduce gyno even when using tren or deca, not make it worse.

      Now, Tamoxifen will down regulate the progesterone receptor in breast tissue. Some "guru's" state Tamoxifen will up regulate the progesterone receptor and cause or lead to gyno. By either worsening estrogenic gyno or by itself. They, therefore, assume Tamoxifen CANT be used with deca or tren, but this is false.

      Now, some of you may be confused about gyno. Maybe this will help.

      You can get gyno (it seems) 3 ways. First off, from estrogen. Second, from progesterone alone, or progesterone making estrogenic gyno worse. And finally, from prolactin.

      Tamoxifen can be used to treat gyno from either deca or tren, whether it be from estrogen or progesterone. BUT Tamoxifen CANNOT treat prolactin induced gyno. But can treat estrogenic gyno or progestenic gyno (if that exists).

      deca and tren will both elevate PRL (Prolactin) levels (although, again debatable). Therefore, for PRL related sides, such as loss of libido, gyno and lactation (although not only from PRL), Caber, Prami or Dostinex need to be used.

      You see, when people use deca and tren, they tend to use Testosterone too. So if they experienced gyno, it may be from estrogen, NOT from deca and tren and again, thus being OK to use Tamoxifen.

      Basically, as progesterone is synthesised in response to estrogen, if you control estrogen, you essentially reduce progesterone sides as well.

      I hope that clears some confusion because you will NOT find a study stating Tamoxifen up regulates the progesterone receptor in breast tissue anywhere. I have never seen a case of gyno solely caused by PgR. It just seems impossible as the PgR is synthesized by the ER (Estrogen Receptor).

      This is from bigcat's steroid profiles, which summarizes some of the above about nolvadex and 19-nor:

      "If indeed the overall yield of estrogen is so much smaller, and so is the rate of androgen receptor stimulation, how then is nandrolone so anabolic? The common belief is through a third receptor : the progesterone receptor. It has been concluded that both nandrolone2 and several of its metabolites3,4 do indeed activate the progesterone receptor and are altered by it. On the one hand progestagenic activity decreases the estrogen receptor concentration in some tissues, it also mediates estrogenic action in other tissues5. So while estrogenic side-effects are fairly uncommon with nandrolone use alone, they can indeed occur and the implications of nandrolone's activity as a progesterone indicate these potential side-effects aren't to be solved with an aromatase inhibitor alone (like Cytadren). As long as there is estrogen in the system (indicating a possible increase of the problem when stacked with another aromatizing compound) progesterone can agonize its effects. And since progesterone receptors are found in breast tissue and have been linked to the formation of milk ducts, progestagenic activity may aggravate possibly gynocomastia. So while such problems are rare, when they occur they aren't easily treated.

      It makes sense then that those particularly prone to the effects and side-effects of estrogen would take extra precaution. Blocking aromatase, considering the previous paragraph, would be a poor choice, but competitively inhibiting the estrogen receptor itself with clomiphene citrate (clomid) or tamoxifen citrate (Nolvadex) might bring some relief since a large portion of progestagenic action is nullified if there is no circulating estrogen around, or if it is kept from being activated by the estrogen receptor."


      One last thing. This thread is not meant to sway anyone from using or not using Tamoxifen with 19nors. Some of you may get worse sides from adding Nolva to a deca or tren laden cycle, but saying everyone will is misinformation.

      As I have said a bilion times, everyone is different. For example, at the end of my cycling days all I took ever was a small amount of Aromasin. And I don't get gyno from even 1g of test a week. But that's me. I have just gotten a little peeved at seeing everyone say DON"T USE NOLVADEX WITH 19NORS OR IT WILL CAUSE PROBLEMS.

      Use should always be conducted following thorough research and then through trial and error. Yes, knowledge from others is great as a start, but you have to find out what works for YOU and only YOU!!!!!”
      I didn’t say it would flat out make it worse. I said it’s a bad idea because “it CAN make it worse”. In the end nolvadex is not a prolactin drug nor an AI so I’m just saying it’s like using a screwdriver to hammer a nail when you have a perfectly good hammer sitting right next to you. It shouldn’t piss you off that people are giving safe advice to people. What should piss you off is when people say “nah, go ahead and use this primitive drug because that’s all I need and I suggest you use it too instead of the actual drug that is meant for the situation.”

      I understood it works for you but that’s really kind of a fluke that it works that way because it wasn’t meant for that and caber and aromasin are both far safer and more effective for prolactin and estrogen and they are meant for these things. Nolvadex is synthetic estrogen and a breast cancer drug. It doesn’t even get rid of estrogen it simply leaves it floating around the body waiting for estrogen rebound when you quit taking it so the estrogen can rush to your receptors and cause gyno during a pct (if one does pct). You can do what you want but recommending that to people you don’t know is irresponsible.


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      And I’ll reiterate that nolvadex isn’t needed for ANY cycle or steroid. It’s a primitive drug and could be totally done away with and the steroid community would be great. Clomid is a better SERM and meant to replace nolvadex a LONG time ago. And even clomid is t the right tool for the job.

      Aromasin
      Arimidex
      Caber

      Pramipexole is primitive too but at least it actually is made for lowering prolactin

      Nolvadex may as well fall off the map.


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