PHARMA GRADE OR UG?

[Herc]

I want to hear what some of my brothers opinions are on pharma grade AI's and SERM's vs. UG. So far all I have used is UG and have been plagued with some gyno. Not real bad and not noticeable to the average person. (slight puffiness of nips and I have masses under both of them). My pec's are huge anyways so it's hard to tell. Now, back to my question....If I had been using Pharma grade AI's and SERM's up to this point, would I have had a different outcome? I finally ordered some Pharma grade shit and am going to give it a go to see if it is any better than what I have already tried. What are your experiences?

[darklord]

I hate under ground shit I always seem to get fake shit now that's to great white peps and pp peps I got gyno cause there letros suck dick I will say digitals adex helped

[Khem]

I've never used pharma.. I don't understand why so many UGL's are giving bunk SERM's and AI's.. the powder is really easy to get and frankly quite fucking cheap. Maybe I just know the right people, though.

[Herc]

Thanks for the responses. I don't know that they are bunk for sure (maybe just severely under dosed), that is why I wanted other people's opinions. Just want to hear experiences with UG vs. Pharma (AI's and SERM's) and what the people of this board prefer to run. I am not talking about AAS, the UG gear has been good.

[enrod]

Herc, I think the only real difference is guaranteed potency. When using UGL, they may actually be close to the pharma grade standards. It's more of a dice roll with UGL when it comes to potency vs. pharma. I don't think you would notice a big difference of 94% potency vs. 99% imo. It's right in the definition of pharmaceutical grade; "The product must be in excess of ninety-nine percent purity with no binders, fillers, dyes or unknown substances". My experience with UGL nolva has been great personally, I'm more afraid of these research chem serms.

[Mfire]

Herc I was taking those drops I bought at the beginning of oct, early last week I started getting puffy sore nips, started taking the gp adex and it was gone in a couple days. So I'm definitely staying with the gp AI's

[Khem]

Thanks for the responses. I don't know that they are bunk for sure (maybe just severely under dosed), that is why I wanted other people's opinions. Just want to hear experiences with UG vs. Pharma (AI's and SERM's) and what the people of this board prefer to run. I am not talking about AAS, the UG gear has been good.

Depending on the filler it should be over dosed.. Most of the common fillers are actually more dense, so 25mg of filler could be 50mg of chemical.

The math is very simple to calculate the amount of filler vs chemical.. Although if you assumed instead of knowing what to do, It would come out drastically different than you'd expect. If you're noticing a difference its got to be quality, I just don't know how they could underdose it unless they're using some kind of unorthodox filler.. Its probably the same reason most sources have PIP to sensitive folk.. Its quality of raws, perhaps. I can't imagine most people are intentionally under dosing.

[Herc]

Is the only reason most of you, with the exception of darklord, prefer UG AI's and SERM's due to the price? If the price was not a factor, would you still be using UG AI's and SERM's instead of Pharm grade? Are you guys (the ones using UG stuff) sure that it is working, have you gotten blood work while taking it? Or are you guys just not "gyno prone" and really didn't need anything to begin with? Not trying to be the devil's advocate here brothers, just trying to figure out everyone's angle.

[Khem]

Is the only reason most of you, with the exception of darklord, prefer UG AI's and SERM's due to the price? If the price was not a factor, would you still be using UG AI's and SERM's instead of Pharm grade? Are you guys (the ones using UG stuff) sure that it is working, have you gotten blood work while taking it? Or are you guys just not "gyno prone" and really didn't need anything to begin with? Not trying to be the devil's advocate here brothers, just trying to figure out everyone's angle.

I have only ever kept AI's on hand, never had to use for even bloat.. SERM's I am fairly certain were real because I get headaches from them. No confirmation. I would prefer Pharm if I can't trust my source for UGL stuff. I prefer altogether that I just get it myself because I know the quality of raws.

[kubes]

I have used both. You have to find the right ug if you go that rought

[bigsam]

There's alot of UG's I would put up against any pharm grade any day of the week bro.

[kubes]

There's alot of UG's I would put up against any pharm grade any day of the week bro.

My point exactly when you find a good one its much easier to test on your lab rats

[315 BEAST]

UG's are just as good as pharma ya just gotta find the right source

[urajokemc]

I've used both. US pharma gear, although limited is by far the best. If you do suffer from gym I, the pharma stuff will REALLY set it off. While on I need 1.5 mg's of Arimidex a day. The IF lab I used was pretty good too. Its been a while, but back in the day "RC" had some great if gear. It still dont touch the stuff I've been getting from the doc

[Clark Kent]

Is the only reason most of you, with the exception of darklord, prefer UG AI's and SERM's due to the price? If the price was not a factor, would you still be using UG AI's and SERM's instead of Pharm grade? Are you guys (the ones using UG stuff) sure that it is working, have you gotten blood work while taking it? Or are you guys just not "gyno prone" and really didn't need anything to begin with? Not trying to be the devil's advocate here brothers, just trying to figure out everyone's angle.
Im very prone to gyno! I can tell instantly if my AI is bunk. I can also tell when my gear is under dosed If im shooting more than 500mg of test a week and I dont have sore nips its not up to par. Same with ug AI if its legit I am fine in a day or so after taking it. AG GUYS got me good once they were on point for so long then they went bunk and I got gyno bad so I ordered from a different company. I was fine in a couple days. If money was no object I would always use pharm grade everything. Im not sayin its better but Im more comfortable with the cleanliness.

[PAiN]

There's alot of UG's I would put up against any pharm grade any day of the week bro.


^^^This!

[SquatsandOats]

Are you talking AIs from sources or from RC sites. I think because they're suspended in solution it can somehow fuck with the compound, although it's purely anecdotal from my experience with Letro/nolva from Extreme peptides

[bdad]

Depending on the filler it should be over dosed.. Most of the common fillers are actually more dense, so 25mg of filler could be 50mg of chemical.

The math is very simple to calculate the amount of filler vs chemical.. Although if you assumed instead of knowing what to do, It would come out drastically different than you'd expect. If you're noticing a difference its got to be quality, I just don't know how they could underdose it unless they're using some kind of unorthodox filler.. Its probably the same reason most sources have PIP to sensitive folk.. Its quality of raws, perhaps. I can't imagine most people are intentionally under dosing.

Under dosing is like stepping on coke, more money. That the reason I have one source I use now.

[delcapone175]

I say both can be equally as good if you have legit products .

[TheTrain]

Under dosing is like stepping on coke, more money. That the reason I have one source I use now.


With how cheap raws are It makes no sense to underdose, I think good sources actually overdose slightly. I know I would if I was a source, to make up for loss and make sure if its supposed to have 250mg/ml it has 250-275mg/ml as that's good business and will keep your customers running back to you! I am not gyno prone even though I got slight lumps when I was teen but have used both now and honestly I cnat say I notice a difference....

More than price to me is convenience Herc! I can get online with CC and have AI serm or caber delivered in a fe2w days tops....pharm grade state side is pricey I suppose and international is a wait. That's my opinion, if there was a good domestic source for legit pharma stuff at reasonable prices id be all over it

[Clark Kent]

With how cheap raws are It makes no sense to underdose, I think good sources actually overdose slightly. I know I would if I was a source, to make up for loss and make sure if its supposed to have 250mg/ml it has 250-275mg/ml as that's good business and will keep your customers running back to you! I am not gyno prone even though I got slight lumps when I was teen but have used both now and honestly I cnat say I notice a difference....

More than price to me is convenience Herc! I can get online with CC and have AI serm or caber delivered in a fe2w days tops....pharm grade state side is pricey I suppose and international is a wait. That's my opinion, if there was a good domestic source for legit pharma stuff at reasonable prices id be all over it

I agree with that statement. But its not the UGL im concerned with its the Chinese supplier. A few pennies to pinch for those guys goes along way. Oh well Im new to this whole under ground thing and I have to say its pretty amazing regardless.

[Herc]

I just spend the money and order the Pharm grade shit. I realize there are some great sources out there for UG AI's and Serms. I just like to know exactly what I am putting in my body due to the fact I am very Gyno prone. Plus I hate using the liquid shit with the stuff floating around in it, how can I possibly be getting an accurate dosage...? Just my opinion brothers, I'm not gambling in this department anymore LOL.

[masteratarms]

Imo anything I get that's not from a doctor or pharmacy I consider underground, labels are easy to make it's hard to tell what's underground and what looks like pharma could just be the same stuff with a label iv had stuff that looked super legit and turned out to be literally nothing except oil it's all about what actually works I could give a shit about labels or pharma or underground

[enrod]

I just spend the money and order the Pharm grade shit. I realize there are some great sources out there for UG AI's and Serms. I just like to know exactly what I am putting in my body due to the fact I am very Gyno prone. Plus I hate using the liquid shit with the stuff floating around in it, how can I possibly be getting an accurate dosage...? Just my opinion brothers, I'm not gambling in this department anymore LOL.

I have wondered the same about liquid suspension, but I just shake up the bottle before dosing and everything has come out pretty damn well in my experience. Hopefully someone can actually shed a little light on how that allows for even dosing.


Imo anything I get that's not from a doctor or pharmacy I consider underground, labels are easy to make it's hard to tell what's underground and what looks like pharma could just be the same stuff with a label iv had stuff that looked super legit and turned out to be literally nothing except oil it's all about what actually works I could give a shit about labels or pharma or underground

I agree here. I don't believe I've ever had pharma unless I received it prescription. And I can't honestly say I've never been prescribed anything used in the BB world other than accutane.

[masteratarms]

I have wondered the same about liquid suspension, but I just shake up the bottle before dosing and everything has come out pretty damn well in my experience. Hopefully someone can actually shed a little light on how that allows for even dosing.



I agree here. I don't believe I've ever had pharma unless I received it prescription. And I can't honestly say I've never been prescribed anything used in the BB world other than accutane.


i have had stuff from a pharmacy just because I knew a guy who worked at a pharmacy and I will tell you that there is a huge difference between that and underground I got massive off of 250 mg a week it's just something you can tell and anybody who's actually had pharma grade stuff knows what I'm saying ha ppl think ifbb pros are taking stupid amounts of stuff but in reality taking 500mg of actual pharma grade stuff and real hgh can get you stage ready

[Clark Kent]

i have had stuff from a pharmacy just because I knew a guy who worked at a pharmacy and I will tell you that there is a huge difference between that and underground I got massive off of 250 mg a week it's just something you can tell and anybody who's actually had pharma grade stuff knows what I'm saying ha ppl think ifbb pros are taking stupid amounts of stuff but in reality taking 500mg of actual pharma grade stuff and real hgh can get you stage ready

I agree. I have had script for test and winstrol and let me tell you 50 mgs prop and 50 mgs winstrol ed was serious. Especially the winstrol. Thats all I needed and thats all i could really handle I had to go to eod because i was getting bloody noses.

[masteratarms]

I agree. I have had script for test and winstrol and let me tell you 50 mgs prop and 50 mgs winstrol ed was serious. Especially the winstrol. Thats all I needed and thats all i could really handle I had to go to eod because i was getting bloody noses.

damn brother I had some serious sides but not that lol I took cyp and androgel I didn't like the androgel but I took just the cyp and gained probably 20 pounds in a month and then I mixed it with underground and blew up, how did u like winstrol brother? I never tried it I'm a tren guy but I'm thinking about it lately

[TheTrain]

Good UGL and pharm test I can't tell a difference in. That's me, it's all about quality of raws lab is using

[Clark Kent]

damn brother I had some serious sides but not that lol I took cyp and androgel I didn't like the androgel but I took just the cyp and gained probably 20 pounds in a month and then I mixed it with underground and blew up, how did u like winstrol brother? I never tried it I'm a tren guy but I'm thinking about it lately

Its my favorite always has been! Fast acting, crazy endurance, thin skin, hard and dry. Striation like a bastard. Its a bit painful without b12 but it has always worked well for me and its my go to for cutting. Does make hair a bit thin but when I come off it goes back to normal within like a month or so. I highly recommend trying it. You are already lean and thats when it really shines if you are 10% bf or less it will get you sliced and diced real fast! Let me know how you make out. 2 x 10 ml bottles at 50 mgs eod should be fine or even 3 bottles at 50 ed will be great too.

[masteratarms]

Its my favorite always has been! Fast acting, crazy endurance, thin skin, hard and dry. Striation like a bastard. Its a bit painful without b12 but it has always worked well for me and its my go to for cutting. Does make hair a bit thin but when I come off it goes back to normal within like a month or so. I highly recommend trying it. You are already lean and thats when it really shines if you are 10% bf or less it will get you sliced and diced real fast! Let me know how you make out. 2 x 10 ml bottles at 50 mgs eod should be fine or even 3 bottles at 50 ed will be great too.
so it was Winstrol water based ?

[Clark Kent]

so it was Winstrol water based ?

Yes H2O dont get the pills or the oil based its ot nearly as effective. A good quality winny can pass through a 27-29 gauge pin perfect for spot inject and shoulders. Im excited for you brother stuff is wicked cheap now and you can get all you need for under 100. The first time i ever did it I was in my early 20s and I got so fucking ripped my buddies still talk about that summer when I see them. It was love at first cycle! Its important that you are pretty lean to start off with though if not you wont reap the real benefit! Keep me posted MAA. Perfect time to try Evolution he has it for like 20 bucks!

[enrod]

i have had stuff from a pharmacy just because I knew a guy who worked at a pharmacy and I will tell you that there is a huge difference between that and underground I got massive off of 250 mg a week it's just something you can tell and anybody who's actually had pharma grade stuff knows what I'm saying ha ppl think ifbb pros are taking stupid amounts of stuff but in reality taking 500mg of actual pharma grade stuff and real hgh can get you stage ready

I've heard several guys talk about this on youtube, and to be honest I just don't believe it. I know test cyp is pharma grade available in the US under Watson (I forget who bought Watson but I believe they were recently acquired this year). However, how is it that pharma grade is so much more, 'potent' than UGL? The only thing pharma guarantees is accurate dosing (250mg/ML is actually equal to 250mg/ML) and bacteria free. Some spec tests on UGLs come back with higher potency than what is placed on the label. Scientifically, I just can't see how there would be a significant or noticeable difference unless your UGL was underdosed.

[masteratarms]

I've heard several guys talk about this on youtube, and to be honest I just don't believe it. I know test cyp is pharma grade available in the US under Watson (I forget who bought Watson but I believe they were recently acquired this year). However, how is it that pharma grade is so much more, 'potent' than UGL? The only thing pharma guarantees is accurate dosing (250mg/ML is actually equal to 250mg/ML) and bacteria free. Some spec tests on UGLs come back with higher potency than what is placed on the label. Scientifically, I just can't see how there would be a significant or noticeable difference unless your UGL was underdosed.

i think it has to do with the raws and I think it's on a level past my understanding and what I mean by that is I think there are raws that will come out the same dose but pharma is higher quality it's like McDonald's beef is still beef with the same amount of protein but if u eat grass fed organic you will feel better and get betters gains even tho the macro content is the same i don't think it's a dose issue more so of a quality of raw issue

[masteratarms]

Yes H2O dont get the pills or the oil based its ot nearly as effective. A good quality winny can pass through a 27-29 gauge pin perfect for spot inject and shoulders. Im excited for you brother stuff is wicked cheap now and you can get all you need for under 100. The first time i ever did it I was in my early 20s and I got so fucking ripped my buddies still talk about that summer when I see them. It was love at first cycle! Its important that you are pretty lean to start off with though if not you wont reap the real benefit! Keep me posted MAA. Perfect time to try Evolution he has it for like 20 bucks!

damn brother you got me pumped I gotta try it now ha

[enrod]

i think it has to do with the raws and I think it's on a level past my understanding and what I mean by that is I think there are raws that will come out the same dose but pharma is higher quality it's like McDonald's beef is still beef with the same amount of protein but if u eat grass fed organic you will feel better and get betters gains even tho the macro content is the same i don't think it's a dose issue more so of a quality of raw issue

I see your point. I don't think there is more than one, maybe two drug companies in the entire US who produce testosterone for injection pharmaceutically. It can't be that difficult to manufacture, it's so wide spread world wide.

[masteratarms]

when I order pharma I try to go international since it's easier to get over there that the way my crazy brain works who knows if it's true ha

[junkyarddips]

When it comes to recovery and protection I have to go with pharmacy products. Spend the little extra cash and do so yourself. You have to be 100% sure with things like this.

[juicyyy91]

Pharm grade ai all the way so you know what your actually getting... Plus pharmaceutical grade much stronger and no need to question or worry about quality or effectiveness

[bigmills]

I definitely don't suggest you getting any Ai or SARMs from any peptide / research company nine times out of ten Ai's and there SARMs are junk.however the peptides seem to work just fine better to get them a tablet from a reliable source...

[Clark Kent]

I definitely don't suggest you getting any Ai or SARMs from any peptide / research company nine times out of ten Ai's and there SARMs are junk.however the peptides seem to work just fine better to get them a tablet from a reliable source...

I find just the opposite to be true! Although not nearly the same quality

[bigmills]

I agree with you when I say junk, I mean when its capsules you never really know what is in there or what the dosage really is...

[bigmills]

I could be wrong,however my wife was taken ECA stack from a popular peptide company and there were some days she was fine other days she was shaken and her face would turn bright red.that led me to believe the dosage in each one wasn't exact.for some reason that makes me like tabs more than capsules if that makes any sense? If you want to xxxxxx. Xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[Mhuddleston]

Some of the Best Stuff Ive used is UGL's Its AllAbout the Company and Their Rep If thwy are Truly trying to Put out a good Product Make Money keep iy flowing and Be around For awhile and you find a Good UGL, I would Go wiyh a Trusted UGL As i said some of the best stuff Ive ran was UGL.. and Honestly Less Faked.. So if you Know and Trust your Source Quality.. Why Not? If you have Unlimited money$ and resources and $ is not an Option then.. I dunno. Go RXGrade.. But thats not the case for most people.

[Mhuddleston]

I agree. I have had script for test and winstrol and let me tell you 50 mgs prop and 50 mgs winstrol ed was serious. Especially the winstrol. Thats all I needed and thats all i could really handle I had to go to eod because i was getting bloody noses.

Which does lead us to beleive that most stuff would have to be underdosed... I mean Test 250 is Test 250... SO.. if one was so potent you had to back off less Frequently. Then There is Really No other explanation than ALOT of the Stuff we are used to Is Truly In fact Underdosed.. And i Personally have seen variances from brand to brand and time to time over the years. Like someone said PharmacyRx you know what you are getting exact doses for sure.. Otherwise honeslty i believe it is and can be a crap shoot with a new UGL and For yhe Mostpart if i was going wiyh a new UGL without trying.. The dosage on Label is Just a Total ESTIMATE in my opinion and what we Hope to be putting in.. TOO MANY VARIABLES.. Unless you know and Trust your Source..

[DirtRider]

Get it from the sponsor you Trust. BOP has all great sponsors. wouldnt doubt any of them.

[Herc]

Wow, an old thread resurrected! I have had great results using ug gear, no problem there. I have however only used Pharma AI's and SERM's since I first started this thread. I don't think I will ever go back to UG AI's. I can dial in my estrogen fast and no more roller coaster effect.

[sgtanal]

Pharma is always better, however there are some UG out there, that is just as good
Just have to test out different UG and get blood work

[LittleTom]

Little late to the party on this one but I'm new. I always keep a supply of pharm grade AI's on hand. There are many UGLS I trust and have had success with their AI's but like everything else, sometimes you get a shitty batch. For the most on a blast I will use pharm AI's and when I cruise I will switch back to UGL. It's much better to be safe than sorry. Nothing can ruin your cycle like scrambling for an AI when the UGL stuff turns out to be bad. It's happened to me a couple times. Gear is great, AIs not so much. Not sure why that is.