winter bulk cyc, guidance needed...

[xandermerlin]

stats r as follows:
age- 38
height- 6'0
weight- 185lbs
fat- ?

been cycle free for about over a yr now n what better way to start the fall than to gear up for a bulking cyc. been doing my homework, but as every1 well knows, u can never know 2 much n thats y ive decided 2 bring my cyc 2 the pros 2 help me tweak it here n there, b4 i commit. cyc is as follows:

wks 1-3 test cypionate 900mg.wk (450mg/monday & 450mg/friday)
wks 4-16 test cypionate 600mg/wk
wks 1-14 deca 450mg/wk
wks 11-16 dbol 40mg/d
wks 4,8 n 12 hcg 500iu/wk (250iu pinned Mon/Thurs)
wks 19-24 pct clomid n nolvadex

diet will b around 5000kcals, give or take :) will b looking forward 2 all the negative, but hopefully positive feedback i can get. thanx again in advance n if any1 outhere needs anymore info on me b4 suggesting anything, ill b more than happy 2 provide such...

[Dont wanna be old]

Going to let Kubes address this one .
How many previous cycles have you ran ?

[godking]

I move the dbol to front. It kicks in fast and will see gains faster. 185lbs and 5000 calories? Are you a Olympic athlete? Im 240 and bulk to 260 usually on way less calories.

[xmuscle]

Maybe run that dbol in the beginning along with the test and deca and u can even run the hcg through out ur cycle..iv had better results that way rather then in the middle of cycle..also u may need some adex at .5 eod.

[cowboy up]

Definitely an AI plus might want to have caber on hand while taking deca. Like other brothers have said I'd move the dbol to the front 4 weeks as a kickstart. 5k in calories is a lot to get in if you're eating right at 185.

[Largerthannormal]

Do you have an est on you bf%? before I address the diet? 185 at even say 10% is still roughly 2500 maintenance cals, 3500 is roughly a pound so at 5000 cals that roughly 5lbs a week , LOL ( lil crazy) I would start at about a clean 3100 cals and monitor and move up from there as you grow! if you dont budge then adjust. 3-4 k cals clean is not an easy task!! but you can do it bud!


Few things id say maybe personal opinion not negative

If it were me Id keep the cyp all the way thru the same, I see your idea here and what your objective is to load the front until the ester is at optimal serum levels. Most people read a ton and see a long ester cycle and base it at 12 weeks, and then they try and find and alter ways to get more things stuck into that time peridd, I would use the Dbol in front if you were going to use it. let the serum levels build and level out and control the E2 with an AI

AI / Adex at .5 EOD OR Stane at 12.5 ED all the way thru cycle

As for the HCG again Im sure KUBES will agree , it is best to run it all the way through cycle. No sense in letting your boys stop producing LH and FSH ( this happens when you introduce exogenous testosterone), keep them firing all cycle long and maintain function and size rather than try to restimulate it here and there. It will make for a faster recovery which is the objective

As for PCT it should start 18days after your last inj

personal pref I like Torem/tamox protocol over clomid but thats just me. Either will work just great!! :)

[xandermerlin]

like ive always said, u can never know too much of one thing n in this game the learning is constant n never ending, so to this i say than u all 4 ur advice n knowledge. ive taken ur guys advice n tweaked my cyc as follows:

wks 1-16 test cypionate 600mg/wk
wks 1-14 deca 450mg/wk
wks 1-4 n 12-16 dbol 40mg/d
wks 1-16 hcg 500iu/wk
wks 19-24 pct clomid n nolvadex...better?

ive decided, as u can c, to not only add Dbol throughout the first 4wks, but also finish off the last 4 wks with sum Dbol, good idea or waste of $$$? how does my PCT look with Clomid n Nolva? critique away n if u guys give me a day or 2, ill post my proposed diet plan, if u guys dont mind. till than my brothers take care n remember "NO PAIN, NO GAIN"

[cowboy up]

Looks good brother! I would definitely add an AI like Adex at .25 EOD ( You can always adjust based on your sides )and you may want to have Caber on hand in case of any prolactin issues. Running something very similar to this cycle right now...

[Largerthannormal]

If it was me this is what I would do, less complicated man. keep her simple. also 16 IMO is too long. I for one am not a fan of long ester cycles for a reason I can discuss later but I am not opposed to those who chose it. There is nothing wrong with it

The idea you want to concern yourself with and you main goal ( besides trying to pack on mass in those few weeks ) is RECOVERY. If you dont or cant recover fully you will not keep anything you worked so hard for.

Now that in mind the best way to acomplish this is less time on means a great success rate in recovery. The longer you are on the harder it will be to restart your HPTA and chances for a full recovery are less.

That said my rule is Get on quick and off quick, This is why I like short ester blast cycles! (8-10) weekers! learning a few tricks in reference to diet ( priming, i can explain later) a short cycle can far exceed the final results of a long or too long cycle

if it was me i would do this

1-12 weeks cyp @ desired amount
1-10 deca @ desired amount
1-4dbol @ desired amount
12.5 ed aromasin ( up to 25 if need be)

PCT ( tamox/clomid is fine) again i am a torem fan but clomid will work great

as for the caber, as long as your E2 is in check with the desired AI you should be ok on prolactin levels as it is a direct counter effect of high E2

as for the dbol at the end, well not a fan but i dont see anything entirely too wrong with it, i personally would not do it as I prefer a dry look

[kubes]

I like the advice given here and as always I think running hcg all the way through the cycle right up to 3 days prior to starting pct is the best option. 250 iu 2xew should be enough to maintain testicular function. I like the idea of keeping it simple too. You have been off cycle for a year and will make great gains. Hmg is another thing to look at as well. Anyone running a long cycle and adding hmg to the mix is a good idea as well

[Largerthannormal]

I def want to run HMG, i never have but i should! Very good idea. esp for those Trt guys!

[kubes]

I def want to run HMG, i never have but i should! Very good idea. esp for those Trt guys!

Hmg is great it's just not as available

[Largerthannormal]

Exactly! :(

[xandermerlin]

thanx 4 ur feedback guys. so i made a couple of changes, mainly shortnin the cyc from 16wk to 12wks n will run HCG througout using slin pins n stickin sub q around my stomach area. here's how it looks:

wks 1-12 test cypionate 600mg/wk
wks 1-10 deca 450mg/wk
wks 1-4/8-12 dbol 40mg/d
wks 1-12 500iu/wk (250iu pinned Mon/Thurs)
wks 15-18 pct clomid n nolvadex (wks 15-18 Clomid 150/100/50/50 ED & wks 15-18 Nolvadex 60/40/20/20 ED)...good?

As for the dbol at the end,it helps retain a lot of mass and strength while coming off the longer ester gear and keeps the training hard during this time. will b looking forward 2 ur feedback guys, till than "STAY STRONG."

[Largerthannormal]

looks good buddy,

run the HCG out a little longer up until a few days prior to pct start

keep in mind the half lives of the esters you are on, if that is the objective of your dbol there is no need for it. I think the dbol is more of a mental encouragement for you. You will see plenty of gains without this and a good diet!

Also you keep forgetting the AI brother! you need that more than anything!

[jerseydevil]

I agree with the others, you need to add an AI and at least have caber on hand. I think the same as Xander that you should frontload AND backload with dbol. Frontload for a jumpstart and backload to renew what are usually stalled gains. I would run the test at 750mg throughout.

[kubes]

Add an ai either Adex at .25 mg eod or aromasin at 12.5 mg Ed and adjust as needed. Pct Clomid 100/50/50/50 nolvadex 40/40/20/20 I think that 150 on the Clomid might be a bit to much. I also like taking the pct meds before bed to avoid the sides. This way you would sleep right through most if any unwanted sides from the serms

[xandermerlin]

so which would b better 2 take, Adex or Aromasin? should i include it from wk1? i know of the blocking of gyno n bloat, but would it hinder my max gains overall throughout cyc?

[Largerthannormal]

I am an Aromasin fan by far.

No the AI will not hinder your gains, you need E2 to be within optimal ranges. E to high or too low will cause problems.

Gains are made by food ;)

[kubes]

so which would b better 2 take, Adex or Aromasin? should i include it from wk1? i know of the blocking of gyno n bloat, but would it hinder my max gains overall throughout cyc?

I prefer aromasin. You dose it daily as popes toe eod or e3d and it's easier on lipids

[xandermerlin]

as i always say, u can nvr know too much! here's the outline aftr all the suggested tweaks:

wks 1-12 test cypionate 600mg/wk
wks 1-10 deca 450mg/wk
wks 1-4/8-12 dbol 40mg/d
wks 1-12 500iu/wk (250iu pinned Mon/Thurs)
wks 15-18 pct clomid n nolvadex (wks 15-18 Clomid 100/50/50/50 ED & wks 15-18 Nolvadex 40/40/20/20 ED)
wks 1-12 Aromasin 12.5 mg Ed...is this a keeper?

would any of u consider helping me tweak my diet, i have it written out all with kcals,fat,carbs n protein intake, or should i post it sumwhere specific on the forum? uve guys have been a great help...thanx

[kubes]

Yes I like the cycle and the aromasin dose. I have a thread in the nutrition section. Post up your food and I will do my best to help

[swolen22]

Why are you lowering test after the first 3 weeks?