Nothing between cycles?

[HavasuGuy]

I'm a week and a half away from the end of my current cycle (12 weeks: 500mg Test Cyp/week, 400-500mg Deca/week, 75mg Anavar/day, 1mg Arimidex/week), and I'm planning a one-month break before starting my next cycle (12 weeks: 500mg Test Cyp/week, 400-500mg Masteron/week, 75mg Anavar/day, 1mg Arimidex/week). My doctor wants me to do absolutely nothing between cycles, as per this e-mail from him (this is after I suggested HCG and Clomid during the break):

"There was some negative talk at the convention about using HCG because there was discussion about suppression of the pituitary production of LH production which goes to the testes to increase testosterone. and then coupled with Clomid which also pushes HCG and FSH artificially we potentially could slow the pituitary function down. Of course, both of those medications are going to elevate testosterone and sperm respectively IF the testis respond normally to LH and FSH. What would be interesting to me to to take a complete break from hormones and its precursors and in 30-45 days measure LH and FSH to see if their production is normal. Also at the end of the 30-45 days we could measure free and total testosterone and see if they collapse after stopping the testosterone. If they collapse we will have to give testosterone to compensate for low testicular function. If LH is normal or high we would not have to give it or HCG because the testis can't respond to it if the testosterone levels fall after stopping the testosterone. It would mean we have testicular failure which in most cases would show up as very high LH and FSH in their effort to get the testicles to make sperm and testosterone."

During the cycle that I'm on right now, I've only managed to gain maybe ten pounds of muscle (maybe closer to five pounds), and, needless to say, I'm worried about losing my gains if I follow the protocol that my doctor is suggesting (again, basically doing nothing)... Thoughts?

[Tazzzz]

Hey bro. I have to be short--II need to get to work. 1st--read this post by Pain--- http://brotherhoodofpain.com/showthread.php?19-Human-Chorionic-Gonadotrophin-(HCG)
2nd--your Dr says, "It would be interesting to me." Thats a Dr way of saying I don't know what the fuck to expect so lets use you as a lab rat to find out.
Your cycle has some things I question.
And, 4-6 weeks between cycles is NOT enough time to recover--either cruise/TRT for that time or stay off with a solid PCT for 2-3 mnths.
To only gain 10lbs on a Deca/Test cycle makes me wonder how well you understand diet.
With all respect, it sounds like you need to step away form using AAS for a bit and get a better understanding of diet, gym routine, how each AAS works in the body and in conjunction with other AAS AND what AI's and a solid PCT look like. We have great forums here where you can find and absorb all the info you need and ask questions BEFORE your a week way from needing to do something.
Here to help bro--sorry that was short and to the point.

[enrod]

I'm going to have to agree with a lot of what Tazz said above. There's no way you'll recover normal levels in a month, your test will certainly collapse. Either take the necessary time off or cruise. If you do chose to cruise, expect your recovery at the end to be quite brutal. Low test sides include anxiety, depression, limp dick, and all of the things associated with these symptoms.

[Mightyjoeyoung]

I'm going to have to agree with a lot of what Tazz said above. There's no way you'll recover normal levels in a month, your test will certainly collapse. Either take the necessary time off or cruise. If you do chose to cruise, expect your recovery at the end to be quite brutal. Low test sides include anxiety, depression, limp dick, and all of the things associated with these symptoms.

When you say recovery at the end you mean if you stop cruising? Is there a crash when you go from blast to cruise?

[enrod]

When you say recovery at the end you mean if you stop cruising? Is there a crash when you go from blast to cruise?

I mean after your next blast and chose to come off, unless you intend to do TRT.

[chrisotpherm]

I like for my people to run five weeks of pct. Only other option in my opinion to somewhat cruise in between cycles besides gear would be proviron.

[HavasuGuy]

Hey bro. I have to be short--II need to get to work. 1st--read this post by Pain--- http://brotherhoodofpain.com/showthread.php?19-Human-Chorionic-Gonadotrophin-(HCG)
2nd--your Dr says, "It would be interesting to me." Thats a Dr way of saying I don't know what the fuck to expect so lets use you as a lab rat to find out.
Your cycle has some things I question.
And, 4-6 weeks between cycles is NOT enough time to recover--either cruise/TRT for that time or stay off with a solid PCT for 2-3 mnths.
To only gain 10lbs on a Deca/Test cycle makes me wonder how well you understand diet.
With all respect, it sounds like you need to step away form using AAS for a bit and get a better understanding of diet, gym routine, how each AAS works in the body and in conjunction with other AAS AND what AI's and a solid PCT look like. We have great forums here where you can find and absorb all the info you need and ask questions BEFORE your a week way from needing to do something.
Here to help bro--sorry that was short and to the point.

I should have mentioned: I'm 47 years old, and my natural Test production is low enough that I've been on TRT (250mg/week) for about six years now. Although, again, my doctor (who administers my TRT) wants me to take a break even from that for the next month or so. Because my natural Test is so low, I'm not sure that even taking three whole months off from AAS and doing HCG and Clomid (as per the article that you reference) is going to do me any good at all -- For me, "returning to normal" just means going back to natural Test levels that are well below normal range. That said, my thought about taking one month off from AAS is more along the lines of just giving my body a break from steroids for a bit.

I know that I've just confused the situation further with all of this, and I'm not sure that this will change your advice at all. Simply put, I'm just not sure what to do now. The AAS has been beneficial enough that I would like to keep doing it. Stopping now just puts me right back to where I've been for the last few decades: absolutely nowhere. I've read so many articles on this site (and elsewhere) about proper nutrition, exercising, AAS, PCT, etc., I'm not sure what else I need to know. And it seems like whenever I ask anyone for specific advice, I get precisely the opposite: just vague advice to read more, learn more, etc. I've been reading about this stuff for years until my eyes are sore from it, and the only time that I've actually gotten any results--however small and unimpressive--is by doing the cycle that I'm wrapping up right now. Have I gained as much as a 25-year-old would have? No. Am I doing everything exactly right? I don't know. But I know that I'm stronger, feel better, look better, and have better body composition than I've ever had in my entire life. So, no, I don't want to "step away for a bit". Just being honest...

Again, not sure what to do now. I appreciate the advice, but quitting doesn't seem like the option that I want at this juncture. If you were in my shoes, would you feel any different?

[Tazzzz]

Thanks for adding a lot more info to your post, it makes more sense and some of what I said certainly would not apply. I'm 57 and know exactly where your coming from in low test and all the benefits we get from AAS. Personnely, I will never come completly off. For me it doesn't make sense for the very reasons you stated. I do TRT/cruise for several weeks @ 100mg/wk and use Test-C. Taking it down to this level in my opinion is giving my body a rest so I feel ok without dumping my test levels to the basement.
You obviously know the gym, diet.....I assumed because you didn't give as much detail that you were far less experienced and maybe needed to do more research. Not the case.
If your "recovery" is going to put you at a very low test level and leave you feeling like crap, me, I would stay on a low dose and then cycle back.
Hope this answer makes more sense.

[kubes]

Thanks for adding a lot more info to your post, it makes more sense and some of what I said certainly would not apply. I'm 57 and know exactly where your coming from in low test and all the benefits we get from AAS. Personnely, I will never come completly off. For me it doesn't make sense for the very reasons you stated. I do TRT/cruise for several weeks @ 100mg/wk and use Test-C. Taking it down to this level in my opinion is giving my body a rest so I feel ok without dumping my test levels to the basement.
You obviously know the gym, diet.....I assumed because you didn't give as much detail that you were far less experienced and maybe needed to do more research. Not the case.
If your "recovery" is going to put you at a very low test level and leave you feeling like crap, me, I would stay on a low dose and then cycle back.
Hope this answer makes more sense.

Excellent post. The cruise is to let your body recover. If you pct the recovery doesn't start till after pct. That's why a General rule is time on plus oxy equals time off with labs run 4-6 weeks after pct ends

[HavasuGuy]

Thanks for adding a lot more info to your post, it makes more sense and some of what I said certainly would not apply. I'm 57 and know exactly where your coming from in low test and all the benefits we get from AAS. Personnely, I will never come completly off. For me it doesn't make sense for the very reasons you stated. I do TRT/cruise for several weeks @ 100mg/wk and use Test-C. Taking it down to this level in my opinion is giving my body a rest so I feel ok without dumping my test levels to the basement.
You obviously know the gym, diet.....I assumed because you didn't give as much detail that you were far less experienced and maybe needed to do more research. Not the case.
If your "recovery" is going to put you at a very low test level and leave you feeling like crap, me, I would stay on a low dose and then cycle back.
Hope this answer makes more sense.

Hi, Tazzzz... Yes, in fact this is exactly the response that I was hoping for! :) I was concerned that I might have sounded a little jerky/whiney in my post, but--as surprised that I am that you have ten years on me (I wasn't expecting that)--I'm glad that you can sympathize with me on all of this. Your "revised" advice really makes sense--several other guys, in other threads, have made the same point: Since I'm on TRT anyway, it's probably not the best idea for me to just drop everything (including the TRT) cold turkey. I like your "cruise" suggestion. I'm going to revisit this issue with my doctor.

As for the gym, diet, etc., admittedly, I still am learning all of this. But in recent months I've received some excellent schooling from the guys here at BrotherhoodOfPain... Best site ever for this stuff!! I'm going to keep asking questions, listening, reading, and learning... Thanks again!

[HavasuGuy]

Hi, Tazzzz... Yes, in fact this is exactly the response that I was hoping for! :) I was concerned that I might have sounded a little jerky/whiney in my post, but--as surprised that I am that you have ten years on me (I wasn't expecting that)--I'm glad that you can sympathize with me on all of this. Your "revised" advice really makes sense--several other guys, in other threads, have made the same point: Since I'm on TRT anyway, it's probably not the best idea for me to just drop everything (including the TRT) cold turkey. I like your "cruise" suggestion. I'm going to revisit this issue with my doctor.

As for the gym, diet, etc., admittedly, I still am learning all of this. But in recent months I've received some excellent schooling from the guys here at BrotherhoodOfPain... Best site ever for this stuff!! I'm going to keep asking questions, listening, reading, and learning... Thanks again!

P.S. Just to clarify: Do you mean that you NEVER take a break from the TRT? My doc likes me to take at least one month off a couple of times per year. And now that I'm doing AAS, my plan is to do this four times per year (break between cycles)... Thoughts?

[Tazzzz]

Never off---thats what a "cruise" is--cruising along between cycles at a low dose. The question I had to ask myself is what real benefits would I gain by being totally off---and the answer was none. Dropping my test to satisfy a dr knowing I will feel like crap physically and mentally just doesn't work for me. If you are getting regular bloods done your dr can continue to monitor everything thats important and you can have peace of mind as well as feeling and looking great. Again, I never come off. Glad your with us HG---there are a lot of great guys here who will help you.

[noarch]

I think I have a different view maybe. So, maybe take it with a grain of salt....

It sounds to me from this and your other posts that your hormones are kind of all over the place? Maybe like your doctor has been unable to solve the low test problem you've been having, and combined with your own self-prescribing (which we all do!) everything might be all out of whack. I know this is probably what you don't want to hear, but if I were in the same situation, I think I'd take a big breath and a big giant step backwards. Do my clomid PCT to come off everything I'm on now properly, and then not do anything for a while. Wait until everything re-sets to a natural level (whatever your natural level is), and start fresh. It will suck for a few months while you wait to level out (especially if "leveled out" for you is low). I kinda think (just thinking out loud) that there might be a benefit in letting your body clear everything out, and using that time to come up with a comprehensive plan for where you want to be, and how to get there. That way, you don't have to worry about BOTH achieving your goals, AND fixing everything that might have gone sideways in the past. Let your body re-set, clear everything out, take a big breath, and start fresh.

Sometimes we all get so many band-aid fixes on things, that we lose track of what the original problem or goal was, and it's easier to just throw it all out and start with a clean slate.

Just a different perspective, for what it's worth. To me, the 3-6 months to take a big step backwards, would be worth the potential gains I could make when I really know how to move forward.

[HavasuGuy]

Never off---thats what a "cruise" is--cruising along between cycles at a low dose. The question I had to ask myself is what real benefits would I gain by being totally off---and the answer was none. Dropping my test to satisfy a dr knowing I will feel like crap physically and mentally just doesn't work for me. If you are getting regular bloods done your dr can continue to monitor everything thats important and you can have peace of mind as well as feeling and looking great. Again, I never come off. Glad your with us HG---there are a lot of great guys here who will help you.

Thanks... One last question (I think): What do you think about staying on Arimidex "permanently", including during cruise? My body seems to love to aromatize every molecule of Test (natural or exogenous) that enters my bloodstream. Would be nice not to see a spike in estrogen during cruise, which I typically see whenever I'm off Arimidex... Or is it advisable to take a break from this, too?

[kubes]

Thanks... One last question (I think): What do you think about staying on Arimidex "permanently", including during cruise? My body seems to love to aromatize every molecule of Test (natural or exogenous) that enters my bloodstream. Would be nice not to see a spike in estrogen during cruise, which I typically see whenever I'm off Arimidex... Or is it advisable to take a break from this, too?

The only way to know is by running labs to see what you need. The leaner you get the less you will need

[Balkan_x]

I think I have a different view maybe. So, maybe take it with a grain of salt....

It sounds to me from this and your other posts that your hormones are kind of all over the place? Maybe like your doctor has been unable to solve the low test problem you've been having, and combined with your own self-prescribing (which we all do!) everything might be all out of whack. I know this is probably what you don't want to hear, but if I were in the same situation, I think I'd take a big breath and a big giant step backwards. Do my clomid PCT to come off everything I'm on now properly, and then not do anything for a while. Wait until everything re-sets to a natural level (whatever your natural level is), and start fresh. It will suck for a few months while you wait to level out (especially if "leveled out" for you is low). I kinda think (just thinking out loud) that there might be a benefit in letting your body clear everything out, and using that time to come up with a comprehensive plan for where you want to be, and how to get there. That way, you don't have to worry about BOTH achieving your goals, AND fixing everything that might have gone sideways in the past. Let your body re-set, clear everything out, take a big breath, and start fresh.

Sometimes we all get so many band-aid fixes on things, that we lose track of what the original problem or goal was, and it's easier to just throw it all out and start with a clean slate.

Just a different perspective, for what it's worth. To me, the 3-6 months to take a big step backwards, would be worth the potential gains I could make when I really know how to move forward.

Good advice right here.