Nolva/Clomid vs. HCG on cycle

[Loose Cannon]

Why is it that it is ok to run HCG on cycle and not Nolva or Clomid. I understand that all 3 are different substances but they all send signals to the testes to start working again. When I first came to BOP I mentioned I was taking Nolva and Clomid everyday to keep the boys swimming, like HCG is used for. I got a decent amount of negative reviews from members saying how this may prevent some gains and is not the way to go. But all 3 substances tell the body to get the testes working. Please do not tell me how they are all different based off of what they do aside from getting your balls working again, because that is what I am wondering. Why you can take one to get your balls turning on during cycle, and not the others.

[studmuffin]

Good question for Kubes, he has always said hcg is the best for you testes during cycles.

[kubes]

Nolva and clomid are serms used during pct to help stimulate lh production. Lh production will not start until testosterone levels hit below baseline numbers. HCG mimics lh production forcing the ledig cells in the testies to function.

[animal87]

hcg all the way on cycle. Save your clomid/nolva for pct. Besides what kubes said all your body becomes accustomed to all substances you put in it, you want the full effect of the serms when you come off.

[BLUELABEL]

i have heard the problem with u loose gainss, but tthat could be bs i didnt read up in that area... honestly if its working for you keep doing it i dont see the harm it it. what doses doo u administer?

[kubes]

i have heard the problem with u loose gainss, but tthat could be bs i didnt read up in that area... honestly if its working for you keep doing it i dont see the harm it it. what doses doo u administer?

Loose gains from what??

[Jozifp103]

I'll try to say this in a way that makes sense lol. When you introduce exogenous test, your body obviously stops producing it's own. It does this by signaling the pituitary gland to stop producing LH (leutinizing hormone) and FSH (follicle stimulating hormone). LH signals the leydig cells in your testicles to produce testosterone. (i'm sure this is nothing new to you). What clomid/nolva will do is act on the pituitary itself and try to signal it to produce LH and FSH again so your testes will make testosterone. But at the same time, your pituitary is getting a "STOP" signal from the exogenous hormones. So now your pituitary is getting mixed signals which is never ideal.

Now with HCG you bypass the pituitary gland completely and just directly signal the testes to produce test. As we know HCG mimics LH, so regardless of the pituitary being shut down, the HCG will still be effective at keeping the testes working.

***edit: to address the "losing gains" subject, it has been shown that nolvadex has a negative impact on IGF-1 levels. This can sometimes be a substantial drop in natural IGF-1 levels (temporarily). This is believed to hinder gains. However, androgen use itself has a substantial increasing effect on IGF-1 levels, so I would assume it would cancel out any drop the nolva would cause.

[kubes]

I'll try to say this in a way that makes sense lol. When you introduce exogenous test, your body obviously stops producing it's own. It does this by signaling the pituitary gland to stop producing LH (leutinizing hormone) and FSH (follicle stimulating hormone). LH signals the leydig cells in your testicles to produce testosterone. (i'm sure this is nothing new to you). What clomid/nolva will do is act on the pituitary itself and try to signal it to produce LH and FSH again so your testes will make testosterone. But at the same time, your pituitary is getting a "STOP" signal from the exogenous hormones. So now your pituitary is getting mixed signals which is never ideal.

Now with HCG you bypass the pituitary gland completely and just directly signal the testes to produce test. As we know HCG mimics LH, so regardless of the pituitary being shut down, the HCG will still be effective at keeping the testes working.

***edit: to address the "losing gains" subject, it has been shown that nolvadex has a negative impact on IGF-1 levels. This can sometimes be a substantial drop in natural IGF-1 levels (temporarily). This is believed to hinder gains. However, androgen use itself has a substantial increasing effect on IGF-1 levels, so I would assume it would cancel out any drop the nolva would cause.

Good post brother and if you add in hmg it mimics fsh maintaining more testicular function while cycling

[Jozifp103]

^^That too, lol. Although HMG is expensive as hell no?

[kubes]

^^That too, lol. Although HMG is expensive as hell no?

Yes it is and harder to locate but well worth the effort

[Jozifp103]

Yes it is and harder to locate but well worth the effort
​I've read/heard success stories with it. Usually HCG is run full time, then HMG is added around the time of trying to conceive. It seems just a temporary blast is all you need to get the boys swimming again. I've also read proviron being great at enhancing sperm count and mobility...

[Loose Cannon]

Thanks to all.

[Elvia1023]

I'll try to say this in a way that makes sense lol. When you introduce exogenous test, your body obviously stops producing it's own. It does this by signaling the pituitary gland to stop producing LH (leutinizing hormone) and FSH (follicle stimulating hormone). LH signals the leydig cells in your testicles to produce testosterone. (i'm sure this is nothing new to you). What clomid/nolva will do is act on the pituitary itself and try to signal it to produce LH and FSH again so your testes will make testosterone. But at the same time, your pituitary is getting a "STOP" signal from the exogenous hormones. So now your pituitary is getting mixed signals which is never ideal.

Now with HCG you bypass the pituitary gland completely and just directly signal the testes to produce test. As we know HCG mimics LH, so regardless of the pituitary being shut down, the HCG will still be effective at keeping the testes working.

***edit: to address the "losing gains" subject, it has been shown that nolvadex has a negative impact on IGF-1 levels. This can sometimes be a substantial drop in natural IGF-1 levels (temporarily). This is believed to hinder gains. However, androgen use itself has a substantial increasing effect on IGF-1 levels, so I would assume it would cancel out any drop the nolva would cause.

Good post.

I will go over my opinion on how HCG should be run during cycles incase anyone is unsure. Firstly there are numerous effective ways so many are probably great. As little as 100IU HCG is enough to send signals and you could get away with weekly dosing. However I think a good simple and convenient way is to inject 250-500IU HCG twice weekly... ideally the night before you test shots (if dosing twice weekly). I don't recommend ever using more than 500IU per shot of HCG. It is advisable to use an AI when using it too (aromasin or arimidex imo). I would carry the HCG all the way up to PCT. Use the nolva and clomid for pct.

[sumguy]

I'm on a low dose TRT program, 350IU of Test Cyp twice a week. The doctor ordered me to inject 350IU's of HCG twice a week also. In order to keep the boys functioning while on TRT.

That way if I decided to come off TRT, say to try to conceive a child or make a baby, it would just make it that much easier to get my normal test back. Of course you would run your Clomid and Nolvadex after stopping your TRT or cycle.

I agree with those that say using low dose HCG while on cycle makes sense to me. It just makes sense to keep the boys functioning while on a cycle. I would rather have semi-functioning gonads, than completely non-functioning gonads for 8-12 weeks, or however long your cycle is? And then trying to revive those non-functioning gonads from the dead 8-12 weeks later?