Bozz77
10-05-2015, 11:28 AM
I am actually ceasing my anti anxiety medication, lexapro, as it seems to shut down alot of my good thinking also. I am concerned about anxiety and insomnia on a tren cycle myself so ill be reading with interest. I need to take sleeping tablets to sleep as i have chronic knee pain and the anxiety also makes me unable to shut off. For a newbie is there a bare minimum dose (of preferably tren e) that is recommended for little sides? I also hear running low test is good for the sides too... like 200mg week test e and 400mg week of tren.
I read so much good stuff about tren and to be honest im not tol interested in getting much bigger... just more ripped would be nice. Its hard dieting and doing cardio lol.
Honestly bro if you are predisposed to anxiety and such I wouldn't touch tren IMO, tren seems to amplify whatever your mind state or what you feeling from your environment, if you suffer from anxiety (I do very mildly normally) then it will become much more prominent as is my problem not to mention the clouded judgment you can suffer, amazing drug, maybe you'll be completely fine using it but that's my personal experience. If you do choose to run it definitely go with ace so your not waiting two weeks for the sides to go.
bulk_cut
10-05-2015, 08:51 PM
Honestly bro if you are predisposed to anxiety and such I wouldn't touch tren IMO, tren seems to amplify whatever your mind state or what you feeling from your environment, if you suffer from anxiety (I do very mildly normally) then it will become much more prominent as is my problem not to mention the clouded judgment you can suffer, amazing drug, maybe you'll be completely fine using it but that's my personal experience. If you do choose to run it definitely go with ace so your not waiting two weeks for the sides to go.
I agree ⬆⬆⬆
There are SOOOO many amazing compounds out there and IMO Tren should
be the LAST one the people use because of the side effects. If you're just looking to get leaner the first place to start is your diet, then adding in some Cardio, then maybe using some Anavar or winstrol depending on your joints then possibly some EQ, then stacking a few compounds together like NPP/Masteron OR Promo (****testosterone is used as a base for all of those suggestions).
Mfire
10-07-2015, 04:20 PM
Honestly bro if you are predisposed to anxiety and such I wouldn't touch tren IMO, tren seems to amplify whatever your mind state or what you feeling from your environment, if you suffer from anxiety (I do very mildly normally) then it will become much more prominent as is my problem not to mention the clouded judgment you can suffer, amazing drug, maybe you'll be completely fine using it but that's my personal experience. If you do choose to run it definitely go with ace so your not waiting two weeks for the sides to go.
I go nuts on it I'll be honest, I take anti anxiety meds and tren basically neutralizes them and puts me in my normal mind, which isn't good with my strength and confidence, I'm a real ass. The thing is u don't even realize what your doing till the damage is done. If you got a temper, it's definitely not a drug to run, I think this last run will be my last, it almost cost me my marriage. That being said, I did a run with tren and deca, I stayed mellow and the tren kept me from bloating, some of the best results I got.
I love Tren, seriously I enjoy the dreams, Libido is always through the roof, what Tren can do to the body is amazing But....
My last couple runs gave me crazy ass panic attacks and anxiety, worse side I have ever had to be honest. Doc prescribed me ***** and it works for when the anxiety and panics are there. I never had panics in my life until a Tren run a couple years ago, ever since then I can't really kick them.
I am also prescribed Mary Jane and that seems to help as well when dealing with the anxiety/eating.
Tren and I will always have a Love/Hate relationship, think it's time for NPP lol
Vision
10-07-2015, 11:21 PM
New here, how is everyone? If I may add something, has anyone ever considered adding mast,or proviron? Both posses great effects with improving the pathways with the neurotransmitters,subsiding most unwanted side..
Here is some info I put together and post on other forums, I added some studies, and with lots of other hard facts! Just something to consider..
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mast and proviron share much of the same targeting properties (the read/article can be applied with Mast as well).. Take a gander at this read I put together some time back!
So lets talk about this shall we?
Tren is the compound that's well known for having a love hate relationship with most users. Most will deem it a necessary evil. But, in fact it doesn't have to be classified as evil after all.
Allow me to intro some clinical studies that have been conducted with a compound most commonly known as Proviron-trade name (Mesterolone).This agent posses some amazing characteristics with Antidepressant properties, as well Antianxiety.
It works by also metabolizing and being recognized through the endocrine as (other) a neurosteroid,effectively functioning as a so-called proneurosteroid (testosterone (https://thinksteroids.com/steroid-profiles/testosterone/) is also recognized as one).. These steroids synthesized in the brain (Proviron especially) and have effects on brain function,In addition to their actions on neuronal membrane receptors,improving the quality of the channels that cells use to communicate and interact.
Proviron(mesterolone) will exert inhibitory actions on neurotransmission, acting as potent positive allosteric modulator of the GABA receptor (This is crucial concerning Tren-Insomnia as healthly function levels of GABA will produce a stable sleep state/environment for rest) and possess, in no particular order, antidepressant,sress-reducing, feeling warm/fuzzy/rewarding,pro-social, antiaggressive(huge consider tren sides),prosexual,sedative/prosleep,cognitive-memory improvement..The list goes on!
(Where does this apply with Tren? It can aid all the way around with individuals how are sensitive or not.From the social aspect,overwhelming sense of anxiety,lack of sleep,basically every stated above that may apply with the usage of tren and the onset of its unwanted side)
In addition to this information, an individual can also utilized masteron (https://thinksteroids.com/steroid-profiles/masteron/)(Drostanolonein) in conjunction with Proviron, running both concurrent may yield a great synergenic effect,each compound will compliment one an other.
Below is a image illustrating the neurotransmitter/receptor and how it functions, also I will include some real actual studies conducted with proven results expressing the benefits of this compound (proviron)
Keep in mind that these doses may seem extreme,its been proven time and time again that such significant dosages are not needed to yield the effect. Merely a daily intake of 50-100 will suffice for almost anyone!
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_RIjx_Mg4ZVM/TNJ6BJZiR5I/AAAAAAAACUU/tYOh4xk4JgE/image_thumb%5B1%5D.png?imgmax=800
Citation
Database: PsycINFO
[ Journal Article ]
A comparison of the antidepressant effects of a synthetic androgen (mesterolone) and amitriptyline in depressed men.
Vogel, William; Klaiber, Edward L.; Broverman, Donald M.
Journal of Clinical Psychiatry, Vol 46(1), Jan 1985, 6-8.
Abstract
26 depressed male outpatients were randomly assigned to 14 wks of treatment with either mesterolone or amitriptyline in a double-blind parallel treatment design. Ss completed the Hamilton Rating Scale for Depression and a symptom checklist each week. Findings reveal that the drugs were equally effective in reducing depressive symptoms. Mesterolone produced significantly fewer adverse side effects than amitriptyline and did not produce hypomania or tachycardia, recognized side effects of amitriptyline. (10 ref) (PsycINFO Database Record (c) 2013 APA, all rights reserved)
Methods Find Exp Clin Pharmacol. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6431212#) 1984 Jun;6(6):331-7.
The effects of mesterolone, a male sex hormone in depressed patients (a double blind controlled study).
Itil TM (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=Itil%20TM%5BAuthor%5D&cauthor=true&cauthor_uid=6431212), Michael ST (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=Michael%20ST%5BAuthor%5D&cauthor=true&cauthor_uid=6431212), Shapiro DM (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=Shapiro%20DM%5BAuthor%5D&cauthor=true&cauthor_uid=6431212), Itil KZ (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=Itil%20KZ%5BAuthor%5D&cauthor=true&cauthor_uid=6431212).
Abstract
Based on computer EEG (CEEG) profiles, in high doses, antidepressant properties of mesterolone, a synthetic androgen, were predicted. In a double-blind placebo controlled study, the clinical effects of 300-450 mg daily mesterolone were investigated in 52 relatively young (age range 26-53 years, mean 42.7 years) male depressed outpatients. During 6 weeks of mesterolone treatment, there was a significant improvement of depressive symptomatology. However, since an improvement was also established during the placebo treatment, no statistically appreciable difference in the therapeutic effects of mesterolone was established compared to placebo. Mesterolone treatment significantly decreased both plasma testosterone and protein bound testosterone levels. Patients with high testosterone levels prior to treatment seem to have had more benefit from mesterolone treatment than patients with low testosterone levels. The degree of improvement weakly correlated to the decrease of testosterone levels during mesterolone treatment.
So, the discussion has came about many times over in regards to depression,aggression and/or anxiety,or other sides when on cycle/blast when utilizing Tren, or at times other compounds!
Let's discuses Tren and one compound that can help assist with side effects that can be unbearable for most,especially anxiety..
So lets talk about this shall we?
Tren is the compound that's well known for having a love hate relationship with most users. Most will deem it a necessary evil. But, in fact it doesn't have to be classified as evil after all.
Allow me to intro some clinical studies that have been conducted with a compound most commonly known as Proviron-trade name (Mesterolone).This agent posses some amazing characteristics with Antidepressant properties, as well Antianxiety.
It works by also metabolizing and being recognized through the endocrine as (other) a neurosteroid,effectively functioning as a so-called proneurosteroid (testosterone is also recognized as one).. These steroids synthesized in the brain (Proviron especially) and have effects on brain function,In addition to their actions on neuronal membrane receptors,improving the quality of the channels that cells use to communicate and interact.
Proviron/or Masteron and Tren (Masteron can be utilized due to it's targeting similarities)
Proviron(mesterolone) will exert inhibitory actions on neurotransmission, acting as potent positive allosteric modulator of the GABA receptor (This is crucial concerning Tren-Insomnia as healthly function levels ofGABA will produce a stable sleep state/environment for rest) and possess, in no particular order, antidepressant,stress-reducing, feeling warm/fuzzy/rewarding,pro-social, anti-aggressive(huge consider tren sides),pro-sexual,sedative/pro-sleep,cognitive-memory improvement..The list goes on!
(Where does this apply with Tren? It can aid all the way around with individuals how are sensitive or not.From the social aspect,overwhelming sense of anxiety,lack of sleep,basically everything stated above that may apply with the usage of tren and the onset of its unwanted side)
In addition to this information, an individual can also utilized masteron (Drostanolonein) in conjunction with Proviron, running both concurrent may yield a great synergenic effect,each compound will compliment one an other.
Further more Proviron is a DHT derivative. DHT compounds assist with hardening of the physique, lack of water retention,increased sex drive..Hardening of the physique and lack of water retention go hand in hand. Proviron assists with this, The body recognizes proviron as a DHT,This causes a direct hardening affect on the muscle tissue (Like mast posses,but mast is much more stronger IMO) The increase in hardness comes from a reduction in free estrogen levels, because proviron has the ability to 'latch-on' to the estrogen binding enzymes,It competes so to speak for its position,it does this aggressively, thus decreasing water retention. Also the the lack of aromatization and the fact that the drug is prototypical androgen, causes a significant shift in the body’s estrogen/testosteroneratio.As proviron's atomic structure it is incapable of forming estrogen. It also has properties with AR's.. Increasing the AR expression, proviron/DHT uptake to further increase AR expression, repeating this process over and over ...This allows other AAS compounds to appear to be amplified with there effects,assisting the compounds - (What does this mean?) It can be a master key so to speak, having multiple functions - It binds aggressively to the AR's and SHBG, thus it can/may increase the activity of other STEROIDS in the system) - This is an added bonus!
Functions concerning the neurotransmitter/receptor and how it works:Below is a image illustrating the neurotransmitter/receptor and how it functions, also I will include some real actual studies conducted with proven results expressing the benefits of this compound (proviron)
Keep in mind that these doses may seem extreme,its been proven time and time again that such significant dosages are not needed to yield the effect. Merely a daily intake of 50-100 will suffice for almost anyone!
http://qph.is.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-c1b39c3a7cbe266c827cf21bc88ce7e8?convert_to_webp=t rue
Citation
Database: PsycINFO
[ Journal Article ]
A comparison of the antidepressant effects of a synthetic androgen (mesterolone) and amitriptyline in depressed men.
Vogel, William; Klaiber, Edward L.; Broverman, Donald M.
Journal of Clinical Psychiatry, Vol 46(1), Jan 1985, 6-8.
Abstract
26 depressed male outpatients were randomly assigned to 14 wks of treatment with either mesterolone or amitriptyline in a double-blind parallel treatment design. Ss completed the Hamilton Rating Scale for Depression and a symptom checklist each week. Findings reveal that the drugs were equally effective in reducing depressive symptoms. Mesterolone produced significantly fewer adverse side effects than amitriptyline and did not produce hypomania or tachycardia, recognized side effects of amitriptyline. (10 ref) (PsycINFO Database Record (c) 2013 APA, all rights reserved)
Methods Find Exp Clin Pharmacol. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6431212#) 1984 Jun;6(6):331-7.
The effects of mesterolone, a male sex hormone in depressed patients (a double blind controlled study).
Itil TM (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=Itil%20TM%5BAuthor%5D&cauthor=true&cauthor_uid=6431212), Michael ST (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=Michael%20ST%5BAuthor%5D&cauthor=true&cauthor_uid=6431212), Shapiro DM (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=Shapiro%20DM%5BAuthor%5D&cauthor=true&cauthor_uid=6431212), Itil KZ (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=Itil%20KZ%5BAuthor%5D&cauthor=true&cauthor_uid=6431212).
Abstract
Based on computer EEG (CEEG) profiles, in high doses, antidepressant properties of mesterolone, a synthetic androgen, were predicted. In a double-blind placebo controlled study, the clinical effects of 300-450 mg daily mesterolone were investigated in 52 relatively young (age range 26-53 years, mean 42.7 years) male depressed outpatients. During 6 weeks of mesterolone treatment, there was a significant improvement of depressive symptomatology. However, since an improvement was also established during the placebo treatment, no statistically appreciable difference in the therapeutic effects of mesterolone was established compared to placebo. Mesterolone treatment significantly decreased both plasma testosterone and protein bound testosterone levels. Patients with high testosterone levels prior to treatment seem to have had more benefit from mesterolone treatment than patients with low testosterone levels. The degree of improvement weakly correlated to the decrease of testosterone levels during mesterolone treatment.
PRESCRIBING INFORMATION
PROVIRON
Tablets
COMPOSITION
Each tablet contains 25 mg mesterolone.
ACTION
-dihydro-testosterone, which is α-methyl compound of 5αMesterolone is the 1
considered to be the proper active androgen in many androgen-dependent target
organs.
Proviron is an oral androgen preparation which has only a slight central inhibitory
effect and, consequently, no restrictive effect on testicular function.
Proviron balances a deficiency of androgen formation which begins to fall gradually
with increasing age. Therefore, Proviron is suitable for the treatment of all conditions
caused by deficient endogenous androgen formation. In the recommended therapeutic
dosage, Proviron will not impair spermatogenesis. Proviron is especially well
tolerated by the liver.
PHARMACOKINETICS AND METABOLISM
Following oral ingestion mesterolome is rapidly and almost completely absorbed in a
wide dose range of 10 - 100 mg. The intake of Proviron generates maximum serum
drug levels of 3.1 ± 1.1 mg/ml after 1.6 ± 0.2 hours. Thereafter drug levels in serum
decrease with a terminal half-life of 12 13 hours. Mestorelone is bound to serum
proteins by 98%. Binding to albumin accounts for 40% and binding to SHBG to 58%.
Mestorelone is rapidly inactivated by metabolism. The metabolic clearance rate from
serum accounts for 4.4 ± 1.6 ml. min −1.kg−1 .
There is no renal excretion of unchanged drug. The main metabolite has been
identified as 1α - methyl-androsterone, which - in conjugated form - accounts for 55 -
70% of renally excreted metabolites. The ratio of main metabolite glucoronide to
sulphate was about 12:1. As a further metabolite 1α - methyl- 5α androstane-3α, 17β-
diol has been recognized, which accounted for about 3% of renally eliminated
metabolites. No metabolic conversion into estrogens or corticoids has been observed.
In form of metabolites mesterolone is excreted by about 85% of dose with the urine
and by about 14% of dose with the faeces. Within 7 days 93% of dose have been
recovered in excreta, the half of which had been excreted within 24 hours.
The absolute bioavailability of mesterolone was determined to about 3% of the oral
dose.
The daily intake of Proviron will lead to an about 30% increase in drug serum levels.
INDICATIONS
Androgen therapy in male patients only.
Reduced efficiency in middle and advanced age •
Complaints attributable to androgen-deficiency, such as reduced efficiency,
easy fatigability, lack of concentration, weak memory, disturbances of libido and
potency, irritability, disturbances of sleep, depressive moods, and general vegetative
complaints, can be overcome or improved by the use of Proviron tablets.
Potency disturbances •
Potency disorders based on an androgen deficiency are eliminated by
administration of Proviron. If other factors are the sole cause or if they contribute to
the disorders, Proviron may be administered in support of other therapeutic measures.
Hypogonadism •
Growth, development and function of androgen-dependent target organs are
stimulated by Proviron. It promotes development of secondary male sex
characteristics in cases of prepuberal androgen-deficiency.
Proviron eliminates deficiency symptoms in cases where a loss of gonadal
function has occurred postpuberally.
Infertility •
Oligozoospermia and deficient Leydig-cell secretion may be the cause of
infertility. With Proviron, sperm count and sperm quality as well as the fructose
concentration in the ejaculate can be improved or normalized, thus increasing the
chances of procreation.
CONTRAINDICATIONS
Prostatic carcinoma.
Previous or existing liver tumours.
WARNINGS
Androgens are not suitable for enhancing muscular development in healthy
individuals or for increasing physical ability.
Risk of carcinoma •
The occasionally expressed fear that prostatic carcinoma can be induced by
the use of androgens is unfounded. Androgens have no carcinogenic action.
Observations made over many years have shown that the risk of carcinoma in
men treated with androgens was no greater than in an untreated control group.
Specific studies of male patients under long-term and high-dosed therapy with
testosterone produced no signs of prostatic carcinoma and, hence, no evidence that the
exogenous supply of testosterone activates any atypical cells which may be present.
The regular check-ups during the therapy failed to reveal a single case of
carcinoma among patients with prostatic adenoma, whose complaints were favourably
influenced by Proviron.
Since androgens can exacerbate a clinically manifest carcinoma of the
prostate, malignant tumours of the prostate must be ruled out before the start of
Proviron treatment. As in prophylactic examinations of men, regular rectal and - if
required to confirm the diagnosis - biopsy examinations must be carried out during
the therapy.
Liver tumours •
In rare cases, benign, and in even rarer cases, malignant liver tumours leading
in isolated cases to life-threatening intra-abdominal haemorrhage have been observed
after the use of hormonal substances such as the one contained in Proviron. A liver
tumour should be included in the differential-diagnostic considerations if severe upper
abdominal complaints, a liver enlargement or signs of an intra-abdominal
haemorrhage occur. If necessary, the preparation must be withdrawn.
ADVERSE REACTIONS
Proviron is well tolerated even as regards liver function. Laboratory tests conducted
during high-dosed and long-term treatment produced no evidence for an injurious
effect. If, in individual cases, frequent or persistent erections occur, the dose should
be reduced or the treatment discontinued in order to avoid injury to the penis.
DRUG INTERACTIONS
None recorded so far.
DOSAGE AND ADMINISTRATION
The tablets should be swallowed whole with some liquid.
The following dosages are recommended:
Reduced efficiency and potency disturbances: •
Commencement of treatment:
1 Proviron tablet 3 times per day.
After satisfactory clinical improvement, it can be tried to reduce the dose.
Continuation of treatment:
1 Proviron tablet twice or once per day
According to the type and severity of the complaints, the dose for further
treatment is to be adjusted to individual requirements. Continuous treatment
over a period of several months is recommended.
Hypogonadism requires continuous therapy: •
For development of secondary male sex characteristics, 1 - 2 Proviron tablets
3 times per day for several months.
As maintenance dose, 1 Proviron tablet 2 - 3 times per day will often be
sufficient.
Infertility - for the improvement of sperm quantity and quality: •
1 Proviron tablet 2 - 3 times per day for a cycle of spermatogenesis, i.e. for
about 90 days. If necessary, Proviron treatment is to be repeated after an
interval of several weeks.
To achieve a higher fructose concentration in the ejaculate in cases of
postpuberal Leydig-cell insufficiency: 1 Proviron tablet twice per day over
several months.
OVERDOSAGE
Acute toxicity studies using single administration showed that Proviron is to be
classified as practically non-toxic. No risk of toxicity is to be expected even after
inadvertent single administration of a multiple of the dose required for therapy.
PRESENTATION
Bottles of 20 and 50 tablets.
REFERENCE
Update product information.
MANUFACTURER
Schering AG, Berlin, Germany.
IMPORTER
Agis Commercial Agencies (1989) Ltd., Bnei-Brak.
15.11.95
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