Orals.

[Bane]

So far the only oral I have used was dbol. I know that orals are a liver slayer, but damn Dbol effective. Thinking about finishing off a cycle with an oral. I have about 3 or 4 weeks of test E left if I run it at 500mg a week. Wanting some lean mass. I would like your input on your best experience with an oral compound to kinda help me make a decision.

[Thaistick]

Anavar for the win. I like Dbol at low doses but anavar is a much cleaner compound in every way. Easy on the liver, hairline, lipids. No bloat. I'd run it year round if I thought it was any safer.

[JohnDoe]

I've never run anavar. I've used dbol enough times to know it will add water weight within a few days, and then you'll be bloated...you will get strength from it though. From my limited knowledge, I would also use anavar if you are set on finishing with an oral. Typically orals are used (IMO) to kickstart a cycle - not finish them. However, does it really matter? Probably not! I also like using Proviron (using PSL right now). Typically you'll wanna use 50-100mg ED of Proviron and I'd spread the doses out. I am a firm believer that Proviron by itself is about useless. It does work well in conjunction with other compounds and will help free up test, give your muscles a dry hard feel/look, up your libido and feeling of well being.

Anavar may be a more effective oral with a short period of time left in your blast. I've heard from several guys that AEL's anavar is some potent shit. Check it out in Advanced Elite Labs section.

Good luck buddy!

[ironjulius]

yea the main cycle ending orals are winny, anavar or halotestin some have used tbol

[ironjulius]

honestly i would go with winny at your age you could handle the joint pain and ideally run it for 5 weeks instead of var usually 6-8 and more expensive. everyone responds different but i really like winny just hate the joint pain. i actually get really strong and put on good lean mass

[Bane]

Anavar for the win. I like Dbol at low doses but anavar is a much cleaner compound in every way. Easy on the liver, hairline, lipids. No bloat. I'd run it year round if I thought it was any safer.
I actually almost tried Var before. LOL I was considering it because the reduced sides and liver toxicity. Just wasn't sure if it would give me that skin splitting pump that I've come to live.

[Bane]

I've never run anavar. I've used dbol enough times to know it will add water weight within a few days, and then you'll be bloated...you will get strength from it though. From my limited knowledge, I would also use anavar if you are set on finishing with an oral. Typically orals are used (IMO) to kickstart a cycle - not finish them. However, does it really matter? Probably not! I also like using Proviron (using PSL right now). Typically you'll wanna use 50-100mg ED of Proviron and I'd spread the doses out. I am a firm believer that Proviron by itself is about useless. It does work well in conjunction with other compounds and will help free up test, give your muscles a dry hard feel/look, up your libido and feeling of well being.

Anavar may be a more effective oral with a short period of time left in your blast. I've heard from several guys that AEL's anavar is some potent shit. Check it out in Advanced Elite Labs section.

Good luck buddy!
Never really read up on Proviron. I will look onto it for my next cycle. Thanks for looking out brother!

[JohnDoe]

I also use TUDCA for liver support when using any orals. In case you don't already use something...

[Bane]

I also use TUDCA for liver support when using any orals. In case you don't already use something...
Yeah I use Liv52. Is it as effective or should I grab some of that TUDCA?

[Thaistick]

I actually almost tried Var before. LOL I was considering it because the reduced sides and liver toxicity. Just wasn't sure if it would give me that skin splitting pump that I've come to live.
Good var gives me very good pumps. My jaw kills me, I can stand the rest but the jaw makes the whole side of my head hurt. Tudca, UDCA is what medical studies were actually done on so it's fine too, I use N-Acetyl-L-Cysteine from Life Extension all the time now, and organic apple cider vinegar is good for gut health (gallbladder, bile ducts) too. If you want to get intensive with running high doses of orals often check out injectable Glutathione. Glutathione is what NAC converts to, but Glutathione isn't very orally bio-available so it has to be injected IM. Look into the Glutathione, it's used to detox chemo patients, removes heavy metals from the body, it's good stuff. Dark skinned people use it IV to bleach their skin but IM doesn't do that.

[JohnDoe]

Live52 is fine to use.

[Bane]

Great info brother.

[SC]

We used liverstabil with Anavar the last run, then the wifey swapped over to tudca for the last four weeks. It would've been cool to see the difference in her labs between the two, but her first labs came back nicely and she felt fine. From what I've read tudca seems to be preferred by many people.

And on the Proviron, as JB Robo put it, it's "icing on the cake." That stuff is a phenomenal addition.

[JohnDoe]

We used liverstabil with Anavar the last run, then the wifey swapped over to tudca for the last four weeks. It would've been cool to see the difference in her labs between the two, but her first labs came back nicely and she felt fine. From what I've read tudca seems to be preferred by many people.

And on the Proviron, as JB Robo put it, it's "icing on the cake." That stuff is a phenomenal addition.

Really? Really bro?? Had to mention icing and cake huh....damn man. I dont have a cheat day for like 25 more days lol

[SC]

Really? Really bro?? Had to mention icing and cake huh....damn man. I dont have a cheat day for like 25 more days lol

It's like... Worcestershire sauce on a turkey burger?

[JohnDoe]

It's like salt on a hard boiled egg. Here we go...

[JohnDoe]

Or like peanut butter on Ezekiel bread

[Bane]

We used liverstabil with Anavar the last run, then the wifey swapped over to tudca for the last four weeks. It would've been cool to see the difference in her labs between the two, but her first labs came back nicely and she felt fine. From what I've read tudca seems to be preferred by many people.

And on the Proviron, as JB Robo put it, it's "icing on the cake." That stuff is a phenomenal addition.
That would have been nice to compare. Maybe next time. Hah

[SC]

That would have been nice to compare. Maybe next time. Hah

Yeah, but at only 10mg/day (her dose. I ran 50) I wonder how much that would even affect the liver. I've been told it's less damaging than a regular dose of Tylenol per day. Not sure how accurate that is though, so don't take it as an absolute truth if anything.

[Bane]

Yeah, but at only 10mg/day (her dose. I ran 50) I wonder how much that would even affect the liver. I've been told it's less damaging than a regular dose of Tylenol per day. Not sure how accurate that is though, so don't take it as an absolute truth if anything.
Yeah acetaminophen (tylenol) is supposed to be terrible. I was reading that the US is the only country that adds it to pain killers like codeine to make it more liver toxic. Starting to get off topic. Haha back to the discussion. Yeah maybe we can run it together sometime and test at the same dosage and make a log.

[SC]

Yeah acetaminophen (tylenol) is supposed to be terrible. I was reading that the US is the only country that adds it to pain killers like codeine to make it more liver toxic. Starting to get off topic. Haha back to the discussion. Yeah maybe we can run it together sometime and test at the same dosage and make a log.

Yeah, getting off track.

Since you're looking for lean mass I would definitely run Anavar. The cycle I just completed was 12 weeks 500mg/week test E, 50mg/day Proviron, 50mg/day Anavar for eight weeks. In the first few weeks I was up almost 20 pounds from the water retention, but dropped back down and remained fairly consistent after that. No bloating noticed, just hardness. It was awesome.

[Bane]

That does sound great. 20lbs in a few weeks is major gains.

[Thaistick]

I wouldn't lose any sleep about anavars effect on the liver. Assuming that you have a normally functioning liver. Of course we don't know that without bloodwork. Don't take your organs for granted. I've been surprised before when my liver enzymes came back higher than reference range and I hadn't been on any orals. I followed up with more bloodwork later after using Tyler's for a month and they were fine. I just don't take it for granted.

[SC]

That does sound great. 20lbs in a few weeks is major gains.

And just to be clear, a lot of that was water retention. I dropped back down to a gain of 13-15 pounds and remained pretty steadily there throughout the cycle, even after adding cardio. Based on before/after pictures/measurements I'm thinking I put on a good 8-10 pounds of muscle from the cycle when all was said and done.

[Bane]

Think I'm gonna go for it.

[Bane]

I wouldn't lose any sleep about anavars effect on the liver. Assuming that you have a normally functioning liver. Of course we don't know that without bloodwork. Don't take your organs for granted. I've been surprised before when my liver enzymes came back higher than reference range and I hadn't been on any orals. I followed up with more bloodwork later after using Tyler's for a month and they were fine. I just don't take it for granted.
It is fully functional. I only have half a thyroid but it produces the proper amount of hormones. I know some compounds can affect your thyroid levels. So I want to avoid burning out the other half.

[Thaistick]

Even testosterone can affect the thyroid. My doctor that prescribes my HRT checks his patients thyroid levels regularly because he's seen so many guys get lethargic after a while. He's found that these guys show a suppression of thyroid hormone. He has me stop everything and use Nolvadex (I prefer toremifene) every few months to prevent this. It seems like this is not the norm with HRT but I trust his judgment plus I like to keep him happy since he basically gives me anything I ask for. Of course I don't ask for narcotics. But as long as I can explain and demonstrate a knowledge about the drugs he very flexible. I asked for metformin last month and got it in fact.

[Bane]

honestly i would go with winny at your age you could handle the joint pain and ideally run it for 5 weeks instead of var usually 6-8 and more expensive. everyone responds different but i really like winny just hate the joint pain. i actually get really strong and put on good lean mass
Just saw this Iron. I can get winni cheap right now. It's liquid suspension is the only thing I don't like. My Dbol was the same way.

[bulk_cut]

Tbol 100% without a doubt! It's not harsh on the liver you will add clean lean muscle mass with no water plus strength AND it's MUCH less expensive than Anavar!!

[Tazzzz]

Addressing the joint pain---TB-500 (Thymosin) is a peptide which specifically addresses joint issues. It strengthens joint/tendon connections and adds fluid as well. It needs to be front loaded and then moderate doses going forward. Check some of the posts in our blogs addressing the use/protocol for TB-500 and you will get some real insight as to how well this pep works. FYI--I've used it personally so I am backing this with personnel experience.
~

[Bane]

Even testosterone can affect the thyroid. My doctor that prescribes my HRT checks his patients thyroid levels regularly because he's seen so many guys get lethargic after a while. He's found that these guys show a suppression of thyroid hormone. He has me stop everything and use Nolvadex (I prefer toremifene) every few months to prevent this. It seems like this is not the norm with HRT but I trust his judgment plus I like to keep him happy since he basically gives me anything I ask for. Of course I don't ask for narcotics. But as long as I can explain and demonstrate a knowledge about the drugs he very flexible. I asked for metformin last month and got it in fact.
I talked to a Dr. Once about using tamoxifen (didn't ask for it asked about its use with steroids) and he says "I'm not giving you breast cancer drugs so you can take steroids." LOL So I haven't told my new Dr. My habits. I had a thyroid panel run last week. My TSH was normal still waiting on t3 and t4 levels.

[Bane]

Tbol 100% without a doubt! It's not harsh on the liver you will add clean lean muscle mass with no water plus strength AND it's MUCH less expensive than Anavar!!
I don't know anything about Tbol. I used to not have access to much, so I just have some knowledge of what I was able to get my hands on. I will look into this compound also. Thank you for your imput.

[Bane]

Addressing the joint pain---TB-500 (Thymosin) is a peptide which specifically addresses joint issues. It strengthens joint/tendon connections and adds fluid as well. It needs to be front loaded and then moderate doses going forward. Check some of the posts in our blogs addressing the use/protocol for TB-500 and you will get some real insight as to how well this pep works. FYI--I've used it personally so I am backing this with personnel experience.
~
I need to get into the peptide game. I hear the have them for everything healing, tanning, appetite. Etc. If I do run winning I will take your advice Tazzzz

[ski748134]

I would use tbol it's a great finisher in my opinion plus not to harsh on liver get tudca like Jondoe mentioned or winny

[ski748134]

Tbol was developed by the Germans in the 50s they used in in there dopping program when they dominated the Olympics it's my favorite right now great sttength gains and doesn't make me feel unhealthy like some other toxic 17aa's do its a great compound versatile and really just great stuff

[SC]

Whichever oral you choose, don't forget to take it with 100% grapefruit juice.

[Buddhayoyo]

Let's b real on var and lipids, when I used to run it my doctor got scared of my low hdl cholesterol being minus.. Something he said he never seen in a patient before.. I keep away from any oral cause they all fuck up your lipids, took the var advise that wasn't strong and destroyed all lipids, I recommend to run it for short periods of time

[Bane]

Let's b real on var and lipids, when I used to run it my doctor got scared of my low hdl cholesterol being minus.. Something he said he never seen in a patient before.. I keep away from any oral cause they all fuck up your lipids, took the var advise that wasn't strong and destroyed all lipids, I recommend to run it for short periods of time
When you say short periods of time how long would you say is appropriate?

[SC]

Let's b real on var and lipids, when I used to run it my doctor got scared of my low hdl cholesterol being minus.. Something he said he never seen in a patient before.. I keep away from any oral cause they all fuck up your lipids, took the var advise that wasn't strong and destroyed all lipids, I recommend to run it for short periods of time

How much were you running? Was any kind of lipid supplement being used? I'm under the impression that most AAS's have some effect on lipids, but typically the worry with orals is more so liver toxicity than lipids.

My personal experience was with var at 50mg/day with a few other compounds (and taking lipid support) my lipids and liver values were decent. Elevated-yes, but not to the point of risk according to the doctor. He was actually surprised my numbers were as good as they were with the amount of gear being used at the time. (Basic beginner cycle- 500 test/week, 50mg var/day, 50mg Proviron/day. Eventually put mast into the mix and then had labs pulled)

[Buddhayoyo]

50 mg per day, was back in the days when they made good domestic var from a good source, nothing crazy, never run var for more than 6 weeks or any oral

[ski748134]

I hear what u say but everyone is different no what is affected the same way everybody should get bloods and see how each compound reacts with them it's the only way to tell I've seen adrol spike ones liver enZymes then others are not hardly high at all get bloods see how u do and go from there do a protocol so u see what's really going on and get them before u start so u have a baseline to gauge from

[kawa636]

It's like... Worcestershire sauce on a turkey burger?

^^^^^^this marinaded overnite in a steak is heaven

[Loose Cannon]

anadrol for some serious bulk. (makes me look like shit tho, but huge) anavar for everything else lol.

[SC]

anadrol for some serious bulk. (makes me look like shit tho, but huge) anavar for everything else lol.

Is it the water retention that makes you look like shit?

[Bane]

Is it the water retention that makes you look like shit?
I figured that's what he meant as well.

[Anon44]

I just jumped on m1t from P.S.L. 20mg ed. Today is my fifth day and I'm amazed. My strength is going through the roof.
My pumps are insane.
I was in the sauna with my wife and she was like wtf your getting bigger. It's cool hearing that from someone you see everyday.

I haven't had any issues with being lethargic either. That was my biggest concern with trying m1t.
Actually if anything I feel awesome.

[Bane]

I just jumped on m1t from P.S.L. 20mg ed. Today is my fifth day and I'm amazed. My strength is going through the roof.
My pumps are insane.
I was in the sauna with my wife and she was like wtf your getting bigger. It's cool hearing that from someone you see everyday.

I haven't had any issues with being lethargic either. That was my biggest concern with trying m1t.
Actually if anything I feel awesome.
Thanks for the post brother.