I Feel Miserable

[Loose Cannon]

Cycled off a few weeks ago for personal reasons. Started PCT a little late because I was waiting on an overseas package. I'm 25 and run HCG on cycle, not in PCT. I've had great recovery's using Clomid 100/50/50/50 and Nolva 40/40/20/20. This is probably the 3rd time coming off in about 2 years. But this time I'm having issues. I'm not recovering like I did. I can feel my Test Levels practically at 0. Dick is non existent. I feel miserable. Do you think a brief, drastic HCG blast will give me a little kick??? Any ideas???

[Electromass]

Cycled off a few weeks ago for personal reasons. Started PCT a little late because I was waiting on an overseas package. I'm 25 and run HCG on cycle, not in PCT. I've had great recovery's using Clomid 100/50/50/50 (tel:100/50/50/50) and Nolva 40/40/20/20 (tel:40/40/20/20). This is probably the 3rd time coming off in about 2 years. But this time I'm having issues. I'm not recovering like I did. I can feel my Test Levels practically at 0. Dick is non existent. I feel miserable. Do you think a brief, drastic HCG blast will give me a little kick??? Any ideas???
Not sure why your levels would be that low running HCG on cycle. How late did you start? Might have to give it a bit more time. See if the clomid kicks in.

[Radman69]

Not from personal experience but experience of friends/research... Recovery will be harder and harder each time... Making trt practically a must... Eventually....Wish u the best of luck brother!

[Trappie_Chan]

Not from personal experience but experience of friends/research... Recovery will be harder and harder each time... Making trt practically a must... Eventually....Wish u the best of luck brother!

I'm beginning to fear that becoming a reality for me in the future, the loss of gains after a cycle are just so disheartening it really fucks with my head.

[bobhead]

I would increase the hcg last 2weeks just before pct.

[bobhead]

Testies might need an extra kick.

[Loose Cannon]

Not sure why your levels would be that low running HCG on cycle. How late did you start? Might have to give it a bit more time. See if the clomid kicks in.

im hoping it kicks in....i started probably about 10 days late?

[Loose Cannon]

Testies might need an extra kick.


youd try more hcg right now even tho i already started pct?

[srgrock]

youd try more hcg right now even tho i already started pct?

I have found hcg works best for me once my test levels crash. About the 15 or 16 days after my last shot if im running 500-750mg/wk of test cyp. I then generally do 2500iu/week for 2 weeks along side of your typical clomid/nolva protocol. If you have had blood work to establish your baseline test levels, for example off cycle your test is 400ng/dl, you would want to have dropped below that for the hcg to effectively stimulate leydig cells. Not saying this is the only method, but what I have found works for me. My blood tests have shown recovering test levels after 4 weeks of pct (generally 6-7 weeks post cycle) for my last two cycles. Unfortunately, I didn't get bloods during my first runs when I did not utilize hcg...live and learn! I haven't utilized hcg on cycle, outside of preventing atrophy im not convinced it helps with recovery with the on cycle method.... Hope you recover quick man!

[bobhead]

Shit your already in pct, probably hold on the hcg. How much do you normally run on cycle?
Are your testicles atrophied?

[yoloswagscope]

What cycle did you run mate? Did you get your blood checked?

[Loose Cannon]

Shit your already in pct, probably hold on the hcg. How much do you normally run on cycle?
Are your testicles atrophied?

at the most i usually run 500-800mg of test and tren always changing doses and esters. ran some eq, some anavar as well. yea balls are shrunk for sure.

[bobhead]

I see, I suspect you needed to increase your hcg dosage on cycle.

Perhaps in this situation, you could blast a single dose of hcg during your PCT.

I only use HCG when I notice some atrophy occurring. HCG will desensitize your leydig cell.

[sledgehammer]

Hey, the longer you stay on, the harder it is to re-cover. About 1 yr before I was diagnosed with low T, I ran a 25 wk test cycle. I jst think it gets harder and harder for the body to produce again, when its been turned off for so long. Same thing happened with my thyroid. There are studys that say the thyroid is very resilient. It wasn't really in my case, After couple years using T3 on and off long periods, I had to start Dr. Rx'd hormone replacement.

Go get tested in a month, after u try to get yourself producing again. Also if u came off because of wanting kids(IDK just guessing), I had a healthy, strong as an ox baby boy while on TRT. Got my girl preggers within first month of trying. So being on TRT doesn't mean u cant get girl pregnant. I was on tren to, wasn't done w my cycle and figured I had the time to finish as she had just stopped birth control. Hang in there

[srgrock]

I see, I suspect you needed to increase your hcg dosage on cycle.

Perhaps in this situation, you could blast a single dose of hcg during your PCT.

I only use HCG when I notice some atrophy occurring. HCG will desensitize your leydig cell.

I thought hcg desensitizing leydig cells came from frequently administered high doses of hcg. So utilizing higher doses, if he was already running 250-500iu's 2-3x a week, would be counter productive? I guess it would depend on how much he was running to begin with.

[srgrock]

Also, Kubes has referenced the "power pct protocol" in a few other pct threads. I believe its from William llewellyn's books. Could be worth looking into.

[elmo33]

Hey bro. Give the testicles a blast with HCG. Your leydig cells are probably still dormant and don't wanna wake up. I saw a urologist when I came off to have kids and we Re-blasted with HCG after starting clomid therapy because I wasn't responding. After HCG test levels came up to 900 on 50mg clomid a day. But bad news...I still felt like shit with those levels because we are use to being triple that....when I stopped the clomid my levels went back to 200 so blast and cruise for me now. My advice is throw more HCG in the mix and take 50mg clomid ED for as long as you want until you want to go back on. If you want to come off for good get bloods after 4 weeks of clomid and see where you are. Then stop everything and get bloods another 4 weeks after all drugs have stopped. Good luck!!

[Revelations]

Hey brother,
I've had similar experiences for a week or so coming off which is kinda weird because we both are young and it sounds like your not running extreme amounts of gear. Here is my 02 cents and a little "out of the box" type thinking, but nonetheless I felt like it really helped on my last cycle recovery. Aside from the recovery protocols the brothers gave you, I strongly encourage you to revisit your diet and training. I just put this out there because I personally believe in cases like this it would be best to eat and train a lil different. I really upped my fats with avocados and other healthy fats sources and even ate a little shitty during my PCT. I went back to the basic lifts and lifted heavy, low reps with lots of days off. Maybe only hit the gym 2-3 times a week. Personally, I was soley focused on recovery and I felt that this was very helpful. Now, I felt like this really made a difference for me, but it might be more severe in your case, but i still think diet and training have a strong correlation with optimal recovery and should be mentioned. Wish you luck brother!
-Rev

[Loose Cannon]

I see, I suspect you needed to increase your hcg dosage on cycle.

Perhaps in this situation, you could blast a single dose of hcg during your PCT.

I only use HCG when I notice some atrophy occurring. HCG will desensitize your leydig cell.

how much of a single dose?

[Loose Cannon]

Hey, the longer you stay on, the harder it is to re-cover. About 1 yr before I was diagnosed with low T, I ran a 25 wk test cycle. I jst think it gets harder and harder for the body to produce again, when its been turned off for so long. Same thing happened with my thyroid. There are studys that say the thyroid is very resilient. It wasn't really in my case, After couple years using T3 on and off long periods, I had to start Dr. Rx'd hormone replacement.

Go get tested in a month, after u try to get yourself producing again. Also if u came off because of wanting kids(IDK just guessing), I had a healthy, strong as an ox baby boy while on TRT. Got my girl preggers within first month of trying. So being on TRT doesn't mean u cant get girl pregnant. I was on tren to, wasn't done w my cycle and figured I had the time to finish as she had just stopped birth control. Hang in there

thats what ive always heard about having kids on too, but after it wasnt working for a while i got my sperm count tested and it was low. doubt it was a coincidence.

[Loose Cannon]

Hey bro. Give the testicles a blast with HCG. Your leydig cells are probably still dormant and don't wanna wake up. I saw a urologist when I came off to have kids and we Re-blasted with HCG after starting clomid therapy because I wasn't responding. After HCG test levels came up to 900 on 50mg clomid a day. But bad news...I still felt like shit with those levels because we are use to being triple that....when I stopped the clomid my levels went back to 200 so blast and cruise for me now. My advice is throw more HCG in the mix and take 50mg clomid ED for as long as you want until you want to go back on. If you want to come off for good get bloods after 4 weeks of clomid and see where you are. Then stop everything and get bloods another 4 weeks after all drugs have stopped. Good luck!!

how much hcg now that im in pct?

[Thappy]

Are you still taking clomid?

If you are i wouldnt change anything until 3 months after you stop. More HCG will just delay the process of restoring natural testosterone.

Try natural testosterone boosters nothing that will supress.

Its all apart of pct.

If i touch clomid my dick doesnt work period. Have to use viagra then its still sub par.

[Loose Cannon]

Are you still taking clomid?

If you are i wouldnt change anything until 3 months after you stop. More HCG will just delay the process of restoring natural testosterone.

Try natural testosterone boosters nothing that will supress.

Its all apart of pct.

If i touch clomid my dick doesnt work period. Have to use viagra then its still sub par.

yea only week 2 of pct still taking clomid....and yea i think hcg will also prolong things

[Thappy]

Just keep at it bro its hard thing to do but it will pick up. trying taking low dose cialis. and tribulous

[bobhead]

I thought hcg desensitizing leydig cells came from frequently administered high doses of hcg. So utilizing higher doses, if he was already running 250-500iu's 2-3x a week, would be counter productive? I guess it would depend on how much he was running to begin with.
Yes high dose will cause oxidative stress on the leydig cells. I think 250-500 is ok, no certainty though.

There's a study showing NAC helped prevent stress to the leydig cell. So I recommend anyone using HCG, to run NAC.

[bobhead]

how much of a single dose?
I was going to say your adrenal glands are suppressed from the HCG, but you mentioned testicular atrophy. So it could be a combination.

But most importantly would be the testicles. You need to address that first. I would blast a 1500iu once. If nothing is noticed, you may need to hit an entire 5000iu amp.

If you are seeing improvement with the nolva and clomid, then ride that through, may take a little longer than expected.

[Herc]

I know some people may not agree with me here, but I would bet your estrogen is dominant right now. I would jump on some Aromasin (because its suicidal, no rebound) for a couple weeks to bring it back down. HCG is good to take right when you come off but it can raise estrogen as well and could make you feel worse if estro is already too high... just an idea. I have been blasting and cruising for a couple years now though.

[Thappy]

I know some people may not agree with me here, but I would bet your estrogen is dominant right now. I would jump on some Aromasin (because its suicidal, no rebound) for a couple weeks to bring it back down. HCG is good to take right when you come off but it can raise estrogen as well and could make you feel worse if estro is already too high... just an idea. I have been blasting and cruising for a couple years now though.

I would agree with this actually but you can drop the nolva if asin is added. You dont need both but it doesnt make a difference

[bobhead]

Estrogen can easily cause ED. But his gonads aren't waking up.

[Thappy]

Estrogen can easily cause ED. But his gonads aren't waking up.

The thing is you dont know unless bloods are done. No point adding more suppressive drugs when you are trying to recover. Ball size is not a tell tail sign.

Aromasin actually raises natural testosterone as well

[bobhead]

Blood work now will only confirm what he already knows.
Also aromasin will free up test, it doesn't increase production.

[sledgehammer]

Hey, it might be worth checking out this Dr. He goes by The Anabolic Doc Internal Medicine Dr. Tom O’Connor | Concierge Medicine in CT (http://www.thomasoconnormd.com/anabolic-doc)

There are some articles on his page that relate to your situation. He is pricey but as a last resort he could help. He is highly respected. Keep us updated....

[yoloswagscope]

at the most i usually run 500-800mg of test and tren always changing doses and esters. ran some eq, some anavar as well. yea balls are shrunk for sure.

Mate, check your prolactin levels. I did test/tren/mast and had same sides as you afterwards... found out it was my prolactin levels. I took some prami and it cleared everything up.

[srgrock]

Hey brother just curious what ya decided to go with. Keep us posted, hope all goes well

[Loose Cannon]

gonna get bloods soon but dont think its estrogen or prolactin.

injected 1000iu hcg 2 days ago, gonna polish off the amp today, bc i feel a little better. its definitley getting better. but ive also been taking 100mg clomid and 40 nolva every single day. gonna hit this hcg up again and lower clomid to 50 tomorrow.

[Loose Cannon]

thanks for the all replies definitely read them all

[Theone189]

Yo brother, hope you been feeling better. Ran into this vid and made me think of this post. Hope this helps

Simple Protocol to stop HRT - YouTube (https://youtu.be/JQPZ7NoksFs)

[Peterm]

Next time your are coming off cycle try to tamper off your dose let's say 750/wk to 500/wk for 2 weeks then 250/week for 2 weeks makes coming off a lot less harsh ad you don't crush as hard
Followed by your normal PCT :)
Give it a try

[Electromass]

Next time your are coming off cycle try to tamper off your dose let's say 750/wk to 500/wk for 2 weeks then 250/week for 2 weeks makes coming off a lot less harsh ad you don't crush as hard
Followed by your normal PCT :)
Give it a try
Seems like leveling off to cruise levels has some merit on longer cycles. But I would take a little bit longer than 2weeks once you get to cruise dosages, depending on your cycle length and compounds used, just to get everything stabilized. Some say tapering works some say it b.s. But everyone is different, it might work for some and it might not.

[Loading]

I'm on pct week 3. Clomid 150/100/50/ then switching to nolvadex 40/40/20/20 doses may change depending on how I feel. I have been taking synthelamin appetite stimulator as well. It's basically tons of b12. I only felt like shit the first 2 days and think that the b12 taken at 2ml orally every 3 days is the reason. I was on cycle for 6 months straight so was expecting the worst. Maybe give it a try.

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Didn't see how old the thread was