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STEROID
11-23-2011, 10:06 PM
HCG DURING A CYCLE

HCG to boost natural Testosterone levels – PCT latest research
Everything That’s Wrong With Your PCT by Eric M. Potratz

In the world of steroid users, it has become mandatory to follow post cycle therapy (PCT) upon cessation of steroid use. Many great PCT protocols have been outlined over the years, and many individuals have had great success with following such protocols. Nevertheless, what works can always work better. This is especially the case for those that have had a lack of success following popular advice. In this article I will address the major problems with popular PCT protocols and clarify exactly how we should use the items at our disposal for optimum recovery from AAS. Three main topics will be covered in this article:

- HCG on cycle — I will show you the best way to use HCG, which will protect your “testicular real-estate”, and prime your HPTA for the fastest and most complete recovery possible.

- HCG unraveled

Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) is a peptide hormone that is used in place of LH to stimulate hormone production from the gonads.1 LH is the primary signal sent from the pituitary to the testes, which stimulates the leydig cells within the testes to produce testosterone. When steroids are administered, LH levels rapidly decline.



The absence of an LH signal from the pituitary causes the rapid onset of testicular degeneration. The testicular degeneration begins with a reduction of leydig cell volume, and is then followed by rapid reductions in intra-testicular testosterone (ITT), peroxisomes, and Insulin-like factor 3 (INSL3) – All important bio-markers and factors for proper testicular function and testosterone production.2-6,19 However, this degeneration can be prevented by a small maintenance dose of hCG ran throughout the cycle. Unfortunately, most steroid users have been engrained to believe that hCG should be used after a cycle. Though, we will learn that a faster and more complete recovery is possible if hCG is ran during a cycle.


Firstly, we must understand the clinical history of hCG to understand the most efficient way to use it. Many popular “steroid profiles” advocate an hCG dose of 2500-5000iu once or twice a week. These were the kind of dosages used in the historical hCG studies for hypogonadal men who had reduced testicular sensitivity due to prolonged LH deficiency.85,86 That is, testes desensitize when not presented with a sufficient LH signal. In men with normal LH levels and testicular sensitivity, the maximum increase of testosterone is seen from a dose of only ~250iu, with minimal increases obtained from 500iu or even 5000iu.2,11 (It appears the testes maximum secretion of testosterone is about 140% above base line.12-18) So, if you have allowed your testes to desensitize over the length of a typical steroid cycle, (8-16 weeks) then you would require a higher dose to elicit a response in an attempt to restore normal testicular size and function – but there is cost to this, and a high probability that you won?t regain full testicular function.

To get an idea of how quickly testicular degeneration occurs from your average multi-AAS cycle, consider this: LH levels are rapidly decreased by the 2nd day of steroid administration.2,9,10 By shutting down the LH signal and allowing the testis to be non-functional over a 12-16 week period, leydig cell volume decreases 90%, ITT decreases 94%, INSL3 decreases 95%, while the capacity to secrete testosterone decreases as much as 98%.2-6 It should be mentioned that visually analyzing testes size is a poor method of judging your actual testicular function, since testicular size is not directly related to the ability to secrete testosterone.4 This is because the leydig cells, which are the primary sites of testosterone secretion, only make up about 10% of the total testicular volume. Therefore, testicular size may appear normal on a cycle, but the testes ability to secrete testosterone upon LH or hCG stimulation can actually be significantly diminished.3-5

The decreased testosterone secretion capacity was well demonstrated in a study on power athletes who used steroids for 16 weeks, and were then administered 4500iu hCG post cycle. It was found that the steroid users were about 20 times less responsive to hCG, when compared to normal men who did not use steroids.8 In other words, their testosterone secretion capacity was dramatically reduced because they did not receive an LH signal for 16 weeks. The testes essentially became desensitized and crippled. Case studies with steroid using patients show that aggressive long-term treatment with hCG at dosages as high as 10,000iu E3D for 12 weeks were unable to return full testicular size.7 Other studies with men using low dose steroid implants for 6 weeks showed unsuccessful return of Insulin-like factor-3 (INSL3) concentration in the testes upon 5000iu/wk of HCG treatment for 12 weeks.6

These studies show that postponing hCG usage until the end of a cycle, increases your need for a higher dose of hCG, and decreases your odds of a full recovery. As a consequence to using a higher dose of hCG, estrogen will be increased disproportionately, which then causes further HPTA suppression while increasing the risk of gyno.11 For example, high doses of hCG are known to raise estradiol 165%, while only raising testosterone 140%.11 Higher doses of hCG are also known to reduce LH receptor concentration and degrade the enzymes responsible for testosterone synthesis within the testes12,13,19 (the last thing someone wants during recovery). While these negative effects of hCG can be partly mitigated by the use of a drug such as tamoxifen, it will create further problems associated with using a toxic SERM. (covered in the next section)

In light of the above evidence, it becomes obvious that we must take preventative measures to avoid this testicular degeneration. Besides, with hCG being so readily available, and such a painless shot, it makes you wonder why anyone wouldn?t use it on cycle. Based on studies with normal men using steroids, ~100iu HCG administered everyday was enough to preserve full testicular function and ITT levels, without causing desensitization typically associated with higher doses of hCG.2 It is important that low-dose hCG is started before testicular degeneration occurs, which appears to rapidly manifest within the first 2-3 weeks of steroid use.

Recap – For optimal preservation of testicular function during cycle, use 100iu hCG ED starting 3 days after your first AAS dose. Drop the hCG a week before the AAS clear the system. For example, you would drop hCG a week after your last Testosterone Enanthate shot. Or, if you are ending the cycle with orals, you would drop the hCG a week before your last oral dose. This will allow for a sudden and even drop in hormone levels, while initiating LH and FSH production from the pituitary, making for a seamless recovery.

A more convenient alternative to the above recommendation would be a weekly shot of 500iu hCG, throughout the entire cycle. Beyond this dose, one could calculate a rough estimate for their required hCG dosage by multiplying 40iu x days of LH absence. (40iu x 60 days = 2400iu HCG dose)


Note: If following any of these protocols, hCG should NOT be used after the cycle.

Source: Eric M. Potratz

STEROID
11-23-2011, 10:08 PM
Here's a similar post from another board suggesting similar HCG dosing schedule:

Recommended Dosing

"HCG is best used in small frequent doses throughout the cycle and
not during Post Cycle Therapy. I recommend HCG treatment begin during the second week of a cycle and end just before PCT starts. (This is the primary difference to the Eric M. Potratz article above)
The dose one needs varies and can be adjusted mid cycle if necessary. Because leptin is a major inhibitor of gonadal function
in men, men with higher body fat levels require larger doses of HCG to get the same effect.

Body Fat Percentage

<10%: 250-300 iu twice weekly
10-15%: 300-350 iu twice weekly
>15%: 350-500 iu twice weekly

5) Do the math to determine the volume you need for your desired
dose. 1 cc = 1,000 iu, so 0.5 cc = 500 iu, 0.25 cc = 250 iu etc.

6) Use an insulin syringe (29 gauge is ideal) to measure your dose
and inject subcutaneously one inch to either side of your belly
button.

If testicular atrophy begins to occur on your selected dose, simply
raise yourself to the next bracket. It is better to not use more
than you need if you plan to come off cycle eventually. Minor
atrophy is quickly reversed with proper Post Cycle Therapy.

I generally recommend that you have Tamoxifen Citrate (aka Nolva)
or Raloxifene Hydrochloride (aka Evista) available in case you
develop signs of gynecomastia."

STEROID
11-23-2011, 10:23 PM
Now I personally like to run HCG throughout my cycle starting from the beginning as Eric suggests and have gotten great results with this protocol.I also feel that HCG should not be used in the early yrs of cycling as it is really not needed IMHO.While younger and your own hormone production is high,a normal pct after your cycle wiull be sufficient enough to restore your bodies natural production.The only time I would encourage this is during very long cycles or SHIC cycles where your recovery could be much more difficult due to either the extended length of time being shut down or the abnormally high doses during these SHIC cycles.Now that I am older and my own production of these hormones has diminished so much I do believe in including it in my cycles especially since now a days I am on more than I am off and with bridging I am basically on all year.My off times have become shorter and shorter and as I get even older this may turn to NEVER off.

But,with the above being said,the longer you can go and grow on the least amount of compounds the better,HCG is a drug like the AAS we are using in our cycles and could present negative side effects as well so if you can recover without it,then why add it? Some think that it will just make pct a lot faster and it may,but whats the rush? Since we all know and should follow the time on = time off plus rule,then there will be plenty of time to recover with a normal pct during this off time.

If HCG had no possible neg side effects maybe I would think differently,but since they do,I would recommend against it as long as possible.Some of the sides include...

Abnormal enlargement of breasts in men (gynaecomastia)--Which is what we all want right???
Prostate hypertrophy--Nuff said.
Excessive fluid retention in the body tissues, resulting in swelling (edema)Another great thing we look forward to while cycling..water retention
Acne--How many of you fight this enough already?
Tiredness--We all want to be tired in the gym right?
Changes in mood--Always a good thing while cycling.
Irritation in area of use
Hair loss---Since AAS use is not enough to help cause hair loss,lets throw some hcg into the mix!
Ovarian Hyper-stimulation Syndrome (OHSS) – which is a life-threatening condition
Arterial Thromboembolism - another potentially life-threatening condition
Blood clots
Risk of multiple pregnancies (twins, triplets, quadruplets, etc.)
Over stimulation of the ovaries causing production of many ova (eggs) in women

As you can see by the first several side effects,they are most of the issues that we will try to combat from AAS alone so by adding HCG it only increases the risks of developing them.If hCG didn’t work and had no negative effects, then there would be no big deal; you could use it for whatever placebo value it may offer without worry or risk. But hCG does have very real potential negative effects – some of which could be life-threatening.

Another possible downside to HCG is that it to can be suppressive to natural testosterone because it takes the place of LH. Since LH is manufactured in the pituitary because of the response of GnRH (gonadotropin releasing hormone) which in turn is secreted by the hypothalamus. Because the HCG mimics LH and is being supplied exogenously the hypothalamus will be given a signal to still stop producing GnRH, so no natural LH will be produced (5). This is why it should always be used with a compound such as Nolvadex. So although HCG is essential after long or heavy cycles, it should not be used without an ancillary such as (specifically) nolv. Also HCG therapy should be discontinued at least 2 weeks prior to stopping the use of nolva, or it may suppress natural testosterone itself.

Next,since you see where it is recommended taking Nolva to combat the issues of shutting of the production of GnRH which will also stop the production of LH,it presents yet another problem.Nolva use itself lowers IGF-1 production which is needed to produce muscle.So by taking Nolva you are actually working against the very cycle you are taking to produce muscle mass.THAT is the exact reason why everyone is told to only take Nolva "IF GYNO SHOULD APPEAR"!

The most important thing to remember always is that these are drugs you are taking and yes even HCG and any other drug could and do have negative side effects.Just taking more and more of these drugs is not the answer.No matter what the bro-science out there tells you.The key to lasting and growing into a healthy old age is by running the safest smartest cycles possible with as little stress on your body and organs as possible and this will only be accomplished by not overloading your system with unnecessary drugs.

Sorry but if you're too worried about recovering from a normal dosed normal length cycle with a proper pct then you need to re-evaluate your choice of cycling.Man the hell up,run your cycle and run your pct! Stop with the baby shit crying about needing more and more drugs (which could actually make things harder) to make recovery easier.You want easy,you're in the wrong business.BBing is not easy.

omni
11-23-2011, 11:38 PM
Great Post!!

STEROID
11-23-2011, 11:44 PM
Thanks Omni.

Mountain Monster
01-11-2012, 02:07 PM
Awsome article! Thanks for sharing!!

rghtnow
01-11-2012, 06:30 PM
Thats a great read....i actually will do 250iu twice a week when adding it during a cycle...i find that works best for me

lost1
01-11-2012, 10:53 PM
What if your on TRT and coming off a cycle would stop hcg even though you drop your test to maintenance level? say 150 ml a week

rghtnow
01-11-2012, 11:08 PM
What if your on TRT and coming off a cycle would stop hcg even though you drop your test to maintenance level? say 150 ml a week

If you were using it while "on" then yes i would stop it when returning to a TRT dose....your boys should have continued to produce while you were cycling and using it so you shouldn't be looking to kick start anything....when using HCG during a cycle the normal protocol is to take your last dose at the same time as your last shot of test...or if your still taking orals then stop it 10 days or so before your last oral dosage...that allows for an even transition and not a sudden drop in levels...so yeah i would stop using it when returning to your trt dosage you should be fine

lost1
01-14-2012, 11:04 PM
If you were using it while "on" then yes i would stop it when returning to a TRT dose....your boys should have continued to produce while you were cycling and using it so you shouldn't be looking to kick start anything....when using HCG during a cycle the normal protocol is to take your last dose at the same time as your last shot of test...or if your still taking orals then stop it 10 days or so before your last oral dosage...that allows for an even transition and not a sudden drop in levels...so yeah i would stop using it when returning to your trt dosage you should be fine

So even though my normal trt calls for HCG i should still stop if im using it on the cycle, I really only use it so the boys dont shrink and keep me from shutting down completely.

xmuscle
01-26-2012, 04:44 AM
Great post fist...they need to call u dr.fist...lol

STEROID
01-27-2012, 12:36 AM
Great post fist...they need to call u dr.fist...lol

Thank you sir.Im just relaying information that has helped me thru the years.Has always worked for me so I stick to it.

OJThaJuiceMan
01-31-2012, 10:25 PM
Think of HCG as the "stimulus" your testes need to start production while you're mid cycle. Once you seize use of it and being your PCT, you will no longer have that stimulus, and that will be left to your Pituitary.

So essentially, once you stop using the HCG, your LH/FSH production will fail while your pituitary tries to reach the stimulus on its own... I use HCG mainly for Hypertrophy prevention, other than that- it is almost a "short fix" while setting yourself up for failure, in my book.

STEROID
02-15-2012, 07:26 PM
Think of HCG as the "stimulus" your testes need to start production while you're mid cycle. Once you seize use of it and being your PCT, you will no longer have that stimulus, and that will be left to your Pituitary.

So essentially, once you stop using the HCG, your LH/FSH production will fail while your pituitary tries to reach the stimulus on its own... I use HCG mainly for Hypertrophy prevention, other than that- it is almost a "short fix" while setting yourself up for failure, in my book.


I agree that HCG is definitely a "short fix" and thats why I encourage everyone to wait as long as they can before starting its use.Also,after its use your pct should be well planned out and strong enough to overcome the rebound from the discontinuance of hcg.After hcg,you can go into a worse shutdown than if you've never used it so a strong pct is a must.

cellmasss
04-08-2012, 04:58 PM
Hey gents.. I know this is an old post but I am gonna ask anyway. Is it safe to assume i can stick the HCG in my normal injections sights (i.e. glute..delts or quad)? I would prefer to stack in with the gear in the same syringe.
Thanks

exphys88
04-08-2012, 11:34 PM
Don't mix hcg w gear. Inject hcg subq w an insulin pin. It can be injected IM but subq is much easier.

ShortnWide
04-09-2012, 04:05 PM
You never want to mix any peptide or hormone with gear. They need to be done separately.
Best way (IMO) to administer HCG is sub-Q and in your abdomen area is the norm for many.

slash75cmd
07-21-2012, 02:50 PM
Question for you peptide brothers of knowledge: If hcg stimulates the pituitary gland in order to stimulate atrophied testicles, wouldn't CJC-1295 or CJC-1293 (the kind without DAC) do the same thing? I briefly used CJC-1295 and it made my head (the one with the skull) throb so I know, or hope, that it was affecting the pituitary. Anyway, I was in the midst of a test-mast cycle and had a little atrophy, but nothing compared to a previous eq-test cycle in which I used hcg afterwards to re-inflate myself. I really tried and liked the CJC-1295 for other reasons due to what PAIN shared in the peptide section a couple of years ago, but I am wondering if there was a "ball benefit" that went along with my use. Thinking about trying it again. Thanks.

graniteman
07-21-2012, 05:42 PM
I've always liked to run Proviron\hcg mid cycle and I know it's controversial the Proviron during and alongside your normal pct. I posted this up on another board and got crucified but there is good medicalesearch on Mesterolone and it's recovery benefits

vgiattino
07-21-2012, 08:44 PM
Informative article, thanks!

slash75cmd
07-29-2012, 01:50 AM
No CJC-1295 info to help a brother out?

abnranger
09-11-2012, 09:27 PM
excellent post valuable info...HCG is misunderstood u gotta do ur research

STEROID
09-12-2012, 05:59 PM
excellent post valuable info...HCG is misunderstood u gotta do ur research

Agreed..Too many to just jump into using it because they "HEARD" someone say you should.What they are not realizing is that everyone reacts differently to each stimuli,whether it be AAS,training,diet,etc so just jumping into taking something without even knowing if YOU personally need it because someone else says its the way it should be is unwise.Learn to read YOUR own body first and attain maximum potential with each thing BEFORE jumping onto more and more compounds.The longer you can make gains on the least amount of gear AND with the LEAST amount of negative side effects the better you will be in the long run. Save your money and your body and do things in a slow controlled and safe manner.

abnranger
09-12-2012, 09:35 PM
Well said F.I.S.T. do the research and do things right the first time & u will save $$$ & unnecessary headaches...tons of info out there get the facts for yourself don't make decisions based off what some dude said at the gym

STEROID
09-13-2012, 11:55 PM
Well said F.I.S.T. do the research and do things right the first time & u will save $$$ & unnecessary headaches...tons of info out there get the facts for yourself don't make decisions based off what some dude said at the gym


Thank you sir.

juni315
09-14-2012, 03:02 PM
F.I.S.T I read somewhere that I shouldnt use hcg for more than 8 weeks at a time. I will be doing a 16 week cycle so when should I start? Or is it ok to run the whole time?

STEROID
09-15-2012, 12:49 AM
F.I.S.T I read somewhere that I shouldnt use hcg for more than 8 weeks at a time. I will be doing a 16 week cycle so when should I start? Or is it ok to run the whole time?


Most will run 4,6 or 8 wk cycles of hcg but I know many that are on gear yr long and have run much longer cycles of hcg as well.I personally in the past have run hcg almost yr long with taking only 8 wks off without problem.If you're running an 16 wk cycle,than 6-8 wks should be long enough.

With that being said,may I ask how many cycles have you run and how long you've been cycling? Also,if you have run cycles before,how was your pct? Not only do I mean what did you take,but for how long and how well did you recover? I only ask because I am a firm believer in waiting as long as possible before jumping onto other compounds including hcg.I know many out there here they need to take it to make recovery easier because they heard this from someone else without ever knowing if they even need it.Everyone reacts differently to cycling so there is no one "RIGHT" way.What one person needs has nothing to do what someone else does.If your recovery is good with only a normal pct,why just add more compounds?

Think about it.

fireant
10-12-2012, 03:26 AM
great post

BUCK21
01-24-2016, 08:01 PM
Great post! have some HCG, guess I'll toss it in the mix

aussie12345
02-18-2016, 05:19 AM
great post ill be running some hcg from now on after a long cruise - blast

Big Moose
04-29-2016, 07:16 PM
Such great information in this old post. The one thing I need to add is a well known urologist by me, worked with a friend who's test was close to zero after years of cycling and not properly using PCT. He also wanted to have a child, so after some failed weeks with clomid - the Dr put him on HCG injections - weekly and that was it - It not only brought his natural test up to 800-900's, but also allowed him to get his wife pregnant after a previous sperm count of around zero. So he was on this HCG for 8-12 months. It was a long time in the making but it certainly worked as far as bringing his natural test back to normal and allowing him to raise fertility. So is this the way to go? IF you already screwed yourself by not using the ways listed in this post while on? I wonder. Anyway - very informative

SearingHigh
06-19-2016, 01:26 PM
I am a big believer of HCG during cycle. Not so much the effects through PPC

rockgod13
06-21-2016, 04:25 PM
This post cleared a lot up for me thanKs!

GrimR
06-23-2016, 04:20 AM
Well it's good to know we all have more options if shit hits the fan!

realprodigy001
08-22-2016, 11:46 PM
That was a great read!! I have more wrinkles on my brain now haha!!

Beastie
11-14-2016, 09:44 PM
I run 100ius daily hcg on cycle...this works best for me..I was taught this by a pro..