Deca only cycles NO! NO! NO! (heres why)

[Vision]

( This topic seems to have been covered but hereis my tke onthe topic and allthat pertains to the matters)

http://puritysourcelabs.ru/upload/blockblog/9872201035985c169107ea-500x500.jpg
By Vision


There's a NEW cycle comcept going around "NANDROLONE DECANOATE" only with this ridiculous concept protocol idea with Nadrolone "ONLY"..
There's a bunch of guys who are just entrepreneur living in Thailand trying to make a name for themselves utilizing social media all for $$$.. They're clowns.. I sent the one guy a message asking to debate his theory publicly. I'm yet to hear anything back , be warned about this poor protocol.

Now let's talk about it!


I admire his approach of some that concider this idea and I do like his theory but I do not like his standpoint on how some are pressuring this protocol downthe throats of users,advocating the superiority of it minimizing the importance of testosterone, and completely discrediting testosterone in general..
Now where I stand on this - I'm gonna call these guy out, as they did nothing to support what what they're advocating other than stand firm on they're assertion with the belief, at the same time making references about there being no studies for this or that, that's because the medical community doesn't just conduct a study for a yes or no answer and then move along, there needs to be significant reasoning for "why" a clinical study is being done in the first place.


They even went as far as claiming that Test is responsible for all or most estrogen??? Fucking hilarious.. Last I recall the aromatase enzyme were responsible for this conversion, or better yet he failed to talk about testosterone converting into DHT (in some users) by way of an enzyme called 5-alpha reductase, yielding DHT far more superior and androgenic as an agonist of the androgen receptor, thus being a chemical messenger that binds to a receptor and activates the receptor to produce a GREATER biological response over NANDROLONE (DHN).. This is a case to case, individual vs individual basis, not a one size fits all way of life.. Same guys stay dry as a bone on 1g of test, and others balloon up on 400mgs..Why is that? Genetics!!!!!


Testosterone has three courses of action, converting into estro, staying testosterone(it's main course of action) , or converts to DHT.. What does nandolone convert to? DHN, and what people fail to understand is that DHN binds to the same receptor as DHT but very mildly, but once you remove DHT or "test" DHN now takes space in the receptors, and now that we're running nandrolone "ONLY" or no "DHT" derivatives this is were users will suffer from ED (and quite possible feminizing side effects), flooding our system with a synthetic progestin, it will increase prolactin serum levels having direct effects on progesterone receptors, pituitary related issues, etc etc
Further more Nandrolone does in fact covert into estrogen, by way of many,many different courses of action, in ways that medical science has even been mislead and confused about, mistakenly citing that nandrolone doesn't convert into estrogen..


Below is a read that may explain this subject a bit better, and shed some light on the topic that seems to always come back full circle, all because "they did it in the 70's"..Cool, and they churned butter in a wooden vat many moons ago, does that mean we still have to manufacture our butter through the same means and method? I high-lighted in red the go-to section to save you same reading time..


Below is some great info cited on the TRUE effects of nandrolone decanoate:


Most anabolic steroid (AAS) users are not extreme in their practices. While people find it interesting to discuss the cycles of professional athletes, amazed by the number and amount of drugs used to achieve elite levels of mass and power, the common user tends to plan cycles chosen for convenience and reliability. Though it is often passed over due to its familiarity, the classical cycle for decades was “Deca & D-bol,” referring to nandrolone decanoate and methandrostenolone (Deca-Durabolin and Dianabol). Dan Duchaine (deceased), renowned author of The Underground Steroid Handbook and former AAS guru to many top bodybuilders, once commented that if someone doesn’t grow on Deca and Dianabol, nothing will work.

Deca and D-bol is considered a near-ideal cycle by many recreational AAS users, as it is convenient, inexpensive, effective and relatively free from side effects. [Note: methandrostenolone is no longer sold under the trade name Dianabol] D-bol (a term used generically to refer to all methandrostenolone products) provides rapid gains in strength and mass, though this is accompanied by a significant increase in body water and side effects (acne, irritability, hair loss) are common with higher dose use. D-bol use by women holds a very high risk of hirsute (masculinizing) side effects, including: facial hair, deepening voice and clitoral hypertrophy. It is also important to note that D-bol is a 17á-alkylated steroid, which means that it can cause liver damage at moderate dosages; rarely, cases of liver tumors, malignant cancers, or blood-filled cysts have been reported, posing serious, even fatal threats to a user’s health.2
Deca (again, a term used generically for many nandrolone products) is very nearly the opposite. It is slow to act, requiring two weeks or longer to generate noticeable gains, but the gains are usually of higher quality even though they are not as pronounced. Deca does not carry as high a risk of androgenic effects in males even though it binds tightly to the androgen receptor. In fact, Deca is actually converted into a less androgenic metabolite by the enzyme 5á-reductase (the enzyme that converts testosterone to DHT and thought to be responsible for hair loss and prostate enlargement). Impotence and loss of libido is infrequently associated with Deca; many AAS users combine Deca with an androgenic AAS such as D-bol to prevent these changes in sexual drive or function. The combination of Deca and D-bol is considered an ideal balance of two complementary drugs by most users.3

One side effect that is not uncommon in many AAS cycles, including the venerable Deca and D-bol cycle is gynecomastia (“bitch tits”).4 Gynecomastia is the growth of breast tissue in a male. This condition is relatively common during puberty and later in life; it is also seen in severe cases of obesity and with the use of certain drug therapies, including: antipsychotics, anti-androgens used during prostate cancer treatment and AAS excess. When gynecomastia occurs during a cycle that includes Deca, the condition is often blamed on other drugs in the cycle, as Deca is commonly believed to be resistant to aromatization. In the case of the prototypical Deca and D-bol cycle, this is reasonable, as one metabolic by-product of methandrostenolone (D-bol) is a potent estrogen, 17á-methylestradiol.2 However, the pristine reputation of nandrolone may be unwarranted and incorrect. Deca is rarely used in one-drug cycles, as it is fairly mild in regard to size or strength gains, particularly in comparison to most other AAS. When used without stacking with other AAS, Deca cycles are generally low to moderate in dose (200mg-600mg/week). It is rare for an adult male to report any significant side effects, with the possible exception of impotence and a reduction in libido (sex drive). This occurs because nandrolone interacts with the androgen receptor and progesterone receptors.5 Progesterone is a female sex hormone, much like estrogen. Many of the steroid-based contraceptives for men being developed within the pharmaceutical industry combine an androgen (such as a long-acting testosterone) along with a progestin.6 While high doses of androgens do lower sperm counts dramatically, to completely shut down sperm production, extremely high concentrations of testosterone are required and the effect is not uniform among all men. Additionally, the concentrations of androgen-only contraception required for effective contraception would result in significant side effects in many people. By combining an androgen and a progestin, researchers have found that fairly consistent contraceptive results can be achieved without introducing significant side effects. As nandrolone is capable of activating both androgen and progestin receptors, it is easy to see how fertility and sex drive could be affected when anabolic (supraphysiologic) doses are used. In fact, natural testosterone production is quickly suppressed and it may take several weeks to months after nandrolone use ends before normal testosterone production is restored. Thus, most experienced AAS users include post-cycle support at the end of a Deca-inclusive cycle, such as hCG and/or Clomid.


Not only does nandrolone directly interact with androgen and progestin receptors, it also holds the potential of being converted into estradiol (the most potent natural estrogen, commonly a metabolite of testosterone). Herein lies a matter of much confusion. Only recently have the steps involved in the aromatase reaction been defined in sufficient detail to discuss and analyze.7 While testosterone and androstenedione are both natural substrates (starting blocks) for the aromatase reaction, nandrolone is not normally formed in human males in significant amounts.8 In fact, only recently has it been proven that metabolites of nandrolone may be present in athletes absent of the use of anabolic steroids, though again, only trace amounts were produced— below the limits allowed by most drug tests.8 Nandrolone appears to be a very minor by-product of the aromatase reaction that does not accumulate under normal physiologic conditions. Nowhere in the string of reactions involved in classic aromatization is 19-nortestosterone (nandrolone) formed. It is likely that the nandrolone metabolites detected in human males under hCG stimulation represent an overload of the aromatase system with nandrolone being a flawed product, similar to a factory reject.


Confusion prevails regarding the aromatization of nandrolone associated with steroid use. It has been reported by many sources, including respected researchers in prestigious scientific journals, that nandrolone is a non-aromatizable steroid.9 A close examination of related research reveals possible sources for the confusion and provides a concrete answer to the question.
The aromatase reaction is a complex, multi-step pathway involving a number of enzymatic reactions.7 It is present in many different tissue types (brain, ovary, adipose, placenta, etc.) and across many different species (human, horse, pig, etc.).10-13 In fact, even certain bacteria are capable of aromatizing androgens.7 In part, solving the hypothesis regarding any possible interaction of nandrolone with the aromatase reaction has been muddied by studying the enzyme system using vastly different sources. It is known that the aromatase enzyme (cytochrome p450arom) varies greatly. Bacterial aromatase has little similarity to mammalian aromatase. Among animals, there are distinct differences between pigs, horses and man that make translating results from one species to the others difficult.7,10,11,14 Further, it has been shown that even within a single species, there are different promoters (signals that “turn on” enzyme production) in different tissues.12 Conditions that may promote aromatization in the testes are different from those of fat cells.
In mammals, the aromatase reaction involves two separate enzymes that are jointly involved in converting androgens into estrogens.7,12 The first, the hemoprotein CYParom encoded by the CYP19 gene (for those of you who need that kind of information), is the catalyst. It attacks the 19-carbon in two steps and the nearby 1-carbon by oxidizing the androgen molecule at those points. The resulting response and actions of the second enzyme (NADPH-cytochrome P450 reductase) cause the loss of the 19-carbon and the simultaneous generation of a phenolic A-ring (a defining feature of an estrogen). In the absence of a 19-carbon, such as in nandrolone, the reaction would be much less efficient if it was even able to function.

Many medico-scientific journals have noted nandrolone to be a non-aromatizable AAS. Studies using brain cells have shown nandrolone to be more neurotoxic (damaging to nerve cells) because it is not aromatized. It is true that nandrolone is not a candidate for classic aromatization, as the 19-carbon that is missing from nandrolone is the starting point for the entire aromatase reaction. Interestingly, nandrolone stimulates aromatase in rat models, even though it does not participate in the reaction. This would accelerate the conversion of other androgens (testosterone, D-bol, etc).


Yet, the results of a recent study published in the Climacteric prove that nandrolone and other 19-nortestosterone-derived steroids can be converted into estrogenic steroids through a series of enzymatic reactions that take place in the human liver.15 The catalytic (accelerating) first enzyme, CYP 450arom, is not present in the adult human liver, though CYP 450arom is present in certain liver diseases and tumors. However, another enzyme called CYP 450 monooxygenase is able to attack the 2-carbon of the nandrolone and begin the generation of the phenolic A-ring…the definitive step in converting an androgen (or 19-norandrogen in this case) into an estrogen.
Recall that the CYP 450arom played a catalytic role, speeding up the classic aromatase reaction. CYP 450 monooxygenase is much slower and less efficient. This accounts for the comments that nandrolone aromatizes at a rate of 20 percent of testosterone or androstenediol.3 In fact, the rate may be much less. Realizing that Deca is injected intra-muscularly and disperses slowly, and the enzyme system discussed in the Climacteric article was specific to the liver, it is unlikely that standard nandrolone-containing cycles would see a major contribution to feminizing effects from nandrolone being aromatized. However, oral norandrogen-precursors were prominently marketed during the prohormone glory days and an oral norandrogen (7á-methylnortestosterone) is being developed as a potential male contraceptive. It is possible, especially at abusive doses, that such oral norandrogens may elevate estrogen levels sufficiently to cause gynecomastia or other estrogen-related problems. In women provided with oral norandrogens for menopause, researchers speculate that the drugs may hold the potential of increasing estrogen and thus, risk for blood-clotting problems or estrogen-sensitive cancers.


Nandrolone is considered a relatively safe AAS and has been used extensively by recreational bodybuilders and power athletes. It has rarely been considered to increase the risk of estrogen-related problems, as steroids missing the 19-carbon are not substrates for the classic aromatization reaction. However, in addition to its capacity to stimulate progesterone receptors (a related group of feminizing sex steroid hormones), nandrolone may also increase estrogen levels via a secondary aromatase reaction, promoting the development of gynecomastia and prolonging the delay in restoring natural testosterone production post-cycle. Classic aromatization of testosterone or other androgens may also be accelerated by nandrolone. Oral forms of nandrolone, including prohormones, likely have a much higher estrogenic index and a higher risk of estrogenic side effects due to hepatic (liver) first pass clearance.

[bigeyed]

I couldn't even imagine running nandrolone by itself. I'd turn into one big zit and go into hibernation. I struggle if i go over 350mg per week. NPP treats me better than deca for sure.

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[Vision]

I couldn't even imagine running nandrolone by itself. I'd turn into one big zit and go into hibernation. I struggle if i go over 350mg per week. NPP treats me better than deca for sure.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

you and me both man.. deca makes me one huge puss posket and the wife has a field day popping them (sick creature she is).. NPP is so much better on me, Im on 900mgs NPP as we speak, if I touch 400 of deca, Im a hot mess..

but to clear things up, these guys stepped up and said that deca only is no good now, haha.. they will be back with an other moronic idea and say that they did it wrong and try it again.. atleast toss in some tren/mast if there's no test, or even proviron, sheeshh

[bigeyed]

Why are people listening to these assholes? Lol

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[Judgmentalist]

With regard to Deca = acne, how do you guys do on TRT level Test?

Before I started TRT I rarely had any zits on my body. I would occasionally get one on my face but it was manageable.

Even after splitting my 200mg Test C TRT into two pins to try to Even out my hormones as much as possible, I still have increased acne. The ones on my face are still manageable.

However I've been getting them on my chest and sometimes on my arms or neck. And these damn things are a bitch to manage. They almost seem like they don't come to the surface and I can't pop them.

Do you think based on your experience that adding Deca to my TRT is likely to make this worse?


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[bigeyed]

With regard to Deca = acne, how do you guys do on TRT level Test?

Before I started TRT I rarely had any zits on my body. I would occasionally get one on my face but it was manageable.

Even after splitting my 200mg Test C TRT into two pins to try to Even out my hormones as much as possible, I still have increased acne. The ones on my face are still manageable.

However I've been getting them on my chest and sometimes on my arms or neck. And these damn things are a bitch to manage. They almost seem like they don't come to the surface and I can't pop them.

Do you think based on your experience that adding Deca to my TRT is likely to make this worse?


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkEveryone is different but when I ran my first two cycles, test only, I didn't get a lot of acne. I got a few on my back but was good after that. My third cycle I ran 300mg a week of Deca and broke out all over my body. Big nasty to hundreds of small ones. I was lucky that I didn't get many on my face. My current cycle with NPP has been manageable for acne. I take vitamin B5 and it helps. I get big nasty ones still but not as bad.

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[Xtreme4Life]

Damn it lol I was planning on doing my first Deca cycle (never used NPP either) with a higher dose of Test in Oct pending my bloods come back 100% in every regard when I do my next test next month. It was going to be my first real bulk this year.

I'm already prone to acne on my back and shoulders even on just TRT if my Estro gets even the slightest bit elevated. I fucking hate it. It seems like the only time I don't get it is when I crash my Estro. Not a ton of acne, but since I didn't have any before it's fucking irritating.

Now I'm having second thoughts lol I guess the only way to find out for sure is to try it.

[Razorback]

I've been seeing this fad talked about quite a bit. Some of these guys are on 2 grams a week of decca only. I'm just rolling my eyes and thinking somebody has to a helluva surplus of this stuff and needs it gone fast.

[bobhead]

Thanks for the info.

[bigeyed]

I'm going to take a break from nandrolone and try out Tren for my 19nor next cycle. No idea what to expect but only one way to find out.

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[CourtneyScott]

4 of very low test high NPP/deca


Week 1
Test E 82.5 mg (MWF) (on TRT so I just continued as per usual.)
NPP 200 mg/ml (MWF)

Week 2
Test E 82.5 mg (MWF)
NPP 200 mg/ml (MWF)
Mast E 200 mg/ml (MWF)

Week 3/4
Test E 82.5 mg (MWF)
NPP 200 mg/ml (M/W/F/Su) ---------------- 800mg NPP
Mast E 200 mg/ml (MWF)

Positives
-ZERO bloating/water retention
-NO AI or caber needed
-Felt fantastic no anxiety, lethargy, slept good, and no lower back pumps
-endurance in bed (which could actually be a negative side effect but I like it

Negatives
-No increase in strength from baseline in fact many lifts went down...
-No increase in aggression at gym
-Weight stayed the same but got more vascular maybe due to Masteron
-Test Flu from high BA/BB in the high concentration 200mg/ml NPP
-Big cyst in buttcheek from NPP
-Test gives me a hard on every 20 minutes. This cycle I had normal labido.
-I had joint pain for some reason, mostly both elbows. I never have elbow pain and the fact that it was both sides leads me to believe it was something cycle related, not mechanical.


the cycle wasn't doing anything for me so I called it quits.

[bigeyed]

4 of very low test high NPP/deca


Week 1
Test E 82.5 mg (MWF) (on TRT so I just continued as per usual.)
NPP 200 mg/ml (MWF)

Week 2
Test E 82.5 mg (MWF)
NPP 200 mg/ml (MWF)
Mast E 200 mg/ml (MWF)

Week 3/4
Test E 82.5 mg (MWF)
NPP 200 mg/ml (M/W/F/Su) ---------------- 800mg NPP
Mast E 200 mg/ml (MWF)

Positives
-ZERO bloating/water retention
-NO AI or caber needed
-Felt fantastic no anxiety, lethargy, slept good, and no lower back pumps
-endurance in bed (which could actually be a negative side effect but I like it

Negatives
-No increase in strength from baseline in fact many lifts went down...
-No increase in aggression at gym
-Weight stayed the same but got more vascular maybe due to Masteron
-Test Flu from high BA/BB in the high concentration 200mg/ml NPP
-Big cyst in buttcheek from NPP
-Test gives me a hard on every 20 minutes. This cycle I had normal labido.
-I had joint pain for some reason, mostly both elbows. I never have elbow pain and the fact that it was both sides leads me to believe it was something cycle related, not mechanical.


the cycle wasn't doing anything for me so I called it quits.Thanks bro for your input. Worth a shot to try something like that out.

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[Vision]

4 of very low test high NPP/deca


Week 1
Test E 82.5 mg (MWF) (on TRT so I just continued as per usual.)
NPP 200 mg/ml (MWF)

Week 2
Test E 82.5 mg (MWF)
NPP 200 mg/ml (MWF)
Mast E 200 mg/ml (MWF)

Week 3/4
Test E 82.5 mg (MWF)
NPP 200 mg/ml (M/W/F/Su) ---------------- 800mg NPP
Mast E 200 mg/ml (MWF)

Positives
-ZERO bloating/water retention
-NO AI or caber needed
-Felt fantastic no anxiety, lethargy, slept good, and no lower back pumps
-endurance in bed (which could actually be a negative side effect but I like it

Negatives
-No increase in strength from baseline in fact many lifts went down...
-No increase in aggression at gym
-Weight stayed the same but got more vascular maybe due to Masteron
-Test Flu from high BA/BB in the high concentration 200mg/ml NPP
-Big cyst in buttcheek from NPP
-Test gives me a hard on every 20 minutes. This cycle I had normal labido.
-I had joint pain for some reason, mostly both elbows. I never have elbow pain and the fact that it was both sides leads me to believe it was something cycle related, not mechanical.


the cycle wasn't doing anything for me so I called it quits.

let me get this right, just 4 weeks of NPP?

[CourtneyScott]

let me get this right, just 4 weeks of NPP?


4 weeks is not long enough to see anything major, believe me, I know this. I have ran NPP with test many times before; strength has always increased around week 3, fullness week 2-3, and size really starts to become noticeable around week 6. I'm fairly methodical with my journal and try to look at it as objectively as possible at the end of the week and compare various subjective variable i keep track of (mood, motivation to lift, indications of gyno, BW weight, HR, BP much more). Based on past experiences nothing I wanted changed from baseline in the positive direction.

I learned something very important from that experiment and then upping my test slowly afterward. I learned that even at 750 test/500NPP I don't need caber and only need .5 adex 2x/wk.. all variables particularly strength and slow incremental weight gain have start to improve positively and mood, energy and mental clarity are still great.

At the end of the day I dont know whats in the bottle I receive.. unless is script test. All I know is my somewhat objective blood work and other subjectives i track. This isn't a darn university study

[Thappy]

I have a mate that has run tren only cycles for years with no sides, don't knock something before you try it. All that gives you is internet experience

[Vision]

I have a mate that has run tren only cycles for years with no sides, don't knock something before you try it. All that gives you is internet experience

We are not talking about Trenbolone, and yes there is some people that run that protocol especially in Asia and the Middle East it's very popular, but not everyone works out well with that protocol just because your mate does pretty good on it does not mean you should Advocate people to try it because that's absolute horseshit... And I have tried Trenbolone without testosterone and I will never ever do that again it wasn't done intentionally it was actually a mistake

[TheMack]

Thanks for starting this thread, Vision. I can see no practical value in running deca without test.

[OooThats]

( This topic seems to have been covered but hereis my tke onthe topic and allthat pertains to the matters)

http://puritysourcelabs.ru/upload/blockblog/9872201035985c169107ea-500x500.jpg
By Vision


There's a NEW cycle comcept going around "NANDROLONE DECANOATE" only with this ridiculous concept protocol idea with Nadrolone "ONLY"..
There's a bunch of guys who are just entrepreneur living in Thailand trying to make a name for themselves utilizing social media all for $$$.. They're clowns.. I sent the one guy a message asking to debate his theory publicly. I'm yet to hear anything back , be warned about this poor protocol.

Now let's talk about it!


I admire his approach of some that concider this idea and I do like his theory but I do not like his standpoint on how some are pressuring this protocol downthe throats of users,advocating the superiority of it minimizing the importance of testosterone, and completely discrediting testosterone in general..
Now where I stand on this - I'm gonna call these guy out, as they did nothing to support what what they're advocating other than stand firm on they're assertion with the belief, at the same time making references about there being no studies for this or that, that's because the medical community doesn't just conduct a study for a yes or no answer and then move along, there needs to be significant reasoning for "why" a clinical study is being done in the first place.


They even went as far as claiming that Test is responsible for all or most estrogen??? Fucking hilarious.. Last I recall the aromatase enzyme were responsible for this conversion, or better yet he failed to talk about testosterone converting into DHT (in some users) by way of an enzyme called 5-alpha reductase, yielding DHT far more superior and androgenic as an agonist of the androgen receptor, thus being a chemical messenger that binds to a receptor and activates the receptor to produce a GREATER biological response over NANDROLONE (DHN).. This is a case to case, individual vs individual basis, not a one size fits all way of life.. Same guys stay dry as a bone on 1g of test, and others balloon up on 400mgs..Why is that? Genetics!!!!!


Testosterone has three courses of action, converting into estro, staying testosterone(it's main course of action) , or converts to DHT.. What does nandolone convert to? DHN, and what people fail to understand is that DHN binds to the same receptor as DHT but very mildly, but once you remove DHT or "test" DHN now takes space in the receptors, and now that we're running nandrolone "ONLY" or no "DHT" derivatives this is were users will suffer from ED (and quite possible feminizing side effects), flooding our system with a synthetic progestin, it will increase prolactin serum levels having direct effects on progesterone receptors, pituitary related issues, etc etc
Further more Nandrolone does in fact covert into estrogen, by way of many,many different courses of action, in ways that medical science has even been mislead and confused about, mistakenly citing that nandrolone doesn't convert into estrogen..


Below is a read that may explain this subject a bit better, and shed some light on the topic that seems to always come back full circle, all because "they did it in the 70's"..Cool, and they churned butter in a wooden vat many moons ago, does that mean we still have to manufacture our butter through the same means and method? I high-lighted in red the go-to section to save you same reading time..


Below is some great info cited on the TRUE effects of nandrolone decanoate:


Most anabolic steroid (AAS) users are not extreme in their practices. While people find it interesting to discuss the cycles of professional athletes, amazed by the number and amount of drugs used to achieve elite levels of mass and power, the common user tends to plan cycles chosen for convenience and reliability. Though it is often passed over due to its familiarity, the classical cycle for decades was “Deca & D-bol,” referring to nandrolone decanoate and methandrostenolone (Deca-Durabolin and Dianabol). Dan Duchaine (deceased), renowned author of The Underground Steroid Handbook and former AAS guru to many top bodybuilders, once commented that if someone doesn’t grow on Deca and Dianabol, nothing will work.

Deca and D-bol is considered a near-ideal cycle by many recreational AAS users, as it is convenient, inexpensive, effective and relatively free from side effects. [Note: methandrostenolone is no longer sold under the trade name Dianabol] D-bol (a term used generically to refer to all methandrostenolone products) provides rapid gains in strength and mass, though this is accompanied by a significant increase in body water and side effects (acne, irritability, hair loss) are common with higher dose use. D-bol use by women holds a very high risk of hirsute (masculinizing) side effects, including: facial hair, deepening voice and clitoral hypertrophy. It is also important to note that D-bol is a 17á-alkylated steroid, which means that it can cause liver damage at moderate dosages; rarely, cases of liver tumors, malignant cancers, or blood-filled cysts have been reported, posing serious, even fatal threats to a user’s health.2
Deca (again, a term used generically for many nandrolone products) is very nearly the opposite. It is slow to act, requiring two weeks or longer to generate noticeable gains, but the gains are usually of higher quality even though they are not as pronounced. Deca does not carry as high a risk of androgenic effects in males even though it binds tightly to the androgen receptor. In fact, Deca is actually converted into a less androgenic metabolite by the enzyme 5á-reductase (the enzyme that converts testosterone to DHT and thought to be responsible for hair loss and prostate enlargement). Impotence and loss of libido is infrequently associated with Deca; many AAS users combine Deca with an androgenic AAS such as D-bol to prevent these changes in sexual drive or function. The combination of Deca and D-bol is considered an ideal balance of two complementary drugs by most users.3

One side effect that is not uncommon in many AAS cycles, including the venerable Deca and D-bol cycle is gynecomastia (“bitch tits”).4 Gynecomastia is the growth of breast tissue in a male. This condition is relatively common during puberty and later in life; it is also seen in severe cases of obesity and with the use of certain drug therapies, including: antipsychotics, anti-androgens used during prostate cancer treatment and AAS excess. When gynecomastia occurs during a cycle that includes Deca, the condition is often blamed on other drugs in the cycle, as Deca is commonly believed to be resistant to aromatization. In the case of the prototypical Deca and D-bol cycle, this is reasonable, as one metabolic by-product of methandrostenolone (D-bol) is a potent estrogen, 17á-methylestradiol.2 However, the pristine reputation of nandrolone may be unwarranted and incorrect. Deca is rarely used in one-drug cycles, as it is fairly mild in regard to size or strength gains, particularly in comparison to most other AAS. When used without stacking with other AAS, Deca cycles are generally low to moderate in dose (200mg-600mg/week). It is rare for an adult male to report any significant side effects, with the possible exception of impotence and a reduction in libido (sex drive). This occurs because nandrolone interacts with the androgen receptor and progesterone receptors.5 Progesterone is a female sex hormone, much like estrogen. Many of the steroid-based contraceptives for men being developed within the pharmaceutical industry combine an androgen (such as a long-acting testosterone) along with a progestin.6 While high doses of androgens do lower sperm counts dramatically, to completely shut down sperm production, extremely high concentrations of testosterone are required and the effect is not uniform among all men. Additionally, the concentrations of androgen-only contraception required for effective contraception would result in significant side effects in many people. By combining an androgen and a progestin, researchers have found that fairly consistent contraceptive results can be achieved without introducing significant side effects. As nandrolone is capable of activating both androgen and progestin receptors, it is easy to see how fertility and sex drive could be affected when anabolic (supraphysiologic) doses are used. In fact, natural testosterone production is quickly suppressed and it may take several weeks to months after nandrolone use ends before normal testosterone production is restored. Thus, most experienced AAS users include post-cycle support at the end of a Deca-inclusive cycle, such as hCG and/or Clomid.


Not only does nandrolone directly interact with androgen and progestin receptors, it also holds the potential of being converted into estradiol (the most potent natural estrogen, commonly a metabolite of testosterone). Herein lies a matter of much confusion. Only recently have the steps involved in the aromatase reaction been defined in sufficient detail to discuss and analyze.7 While testosterone and androstenedione are both natural substrates (starting blocks) for the aromatase reaction, nandrolone is not normally formed in human males in significant amounts.8 In fact, only recently has it been proven that metabolites of nandrolone may be present in athletes absent of the use of anabolic steroids, though again, only trace amounts were produced— below the limits allowed by most drug tests.8 Nandrolone appears to be a very minor by-product of the aromatase reaction that does not accumulate under normal physiologic conditions. Nowhere in the string of reactions involved in classic aromatization is 19-nortestosterone (nandrolone) formed. It is likely that the nandrolone metabolites detected in human males under hCG stimulation represent an overload of the aromatase system with nandrolone being a flawed product, similar to a factory reject.


Confusion prevails regarding the aromatization of nandrolone associated with steroid use. It has been reported by many sources, including respected researchers in prestigious scientific journals, that nandrolone is a non-aromatizable steroid.9 A close examination of related research reveals possible sources for the confusion and provides a concrete answer to the question.
The aromatase reaction is a complex, multi-step pathway involving a number of enzymatic reactions.7 It is present in many different tissue types (brain, ovary, adipose, placenta, etc.) and across many different species (human, horse, pig, etc.).10-13 In fact, even certain bacteria are capable of aromatizing androgens.7 In part, solving the hypothesis regarding any possible interaction of nandrolone with the aromatase reaction has been muddied by studying the enzyme system using vastly different sources. It is known that the aromatase enzyme (cytochrome p450arom) varies greatly. Bacterial aromatase has little similarity to mammalian aromatase. Among animals, there are distinct differences between pigs, horses and man that make translating results from one species to the others difficult.7,10,11,14 Further, it has been shown that even within a single species, there are different promoters (signals that “turn on” enzyme production) in different tissues.12 Conditions that may promote aromatization in the testes are different from those of fat cells.
In mammals, the aromatase reaction involves two separate enzymes that are jointly involved in converting androgens into estrogens.7,12 The first, the hemoprotein CYParom encoded by the CYP19 gene (for those of you who need that kind of information), is the catalyst. It attacks the 19-carbon in two steps and the nearby 1-carbon by oxidizing the androgen molecule at those points. The resulting response and actions of the second enzyme (NADPH-cytochrome P450 reductase) cause the loss of the 19-carbon and the simultaneous generation of a phenolic A-ring (a defining feature of an estrogen). In the absence of a 19-carbon, such as in nandrolone, the reaction would be much less efficient if it was even able to function.

Many medico-scientific journals have noted nandrolone to be a non-aromatizable AAS. Studies using brain cells have shown nandrolone to be more neurotoxic (damaging to nerve cells) because it is not aromatized. It is true that nandrolone is not a candidate for classic aromatization, as the 19-carbon that is missing from nandrolone is the starting point for the entire aromatase reaction. Interestingly, nandrolone stimulates aromatase in rat models, even though it does not participate in the reaction. This would accelerate the conversion of other androgens (testosterone, D-bol, etc).


Yet, the results of a recent study published in the Climacteric prove that nandrolone and other 19-nortestosterone-derived steroids can be converted into estrogenic steroids through a series of enzymatic reactions that take place in the human liver.15 The catalytic (accelerating) first enzyme, CYP 450arom, is not present in the adult human liver, though CYP 450arom is present in certain liver diseases and tumors. However, another enzyme called CYP 450 monooxygenase is able to attack the 2-carbon of the nandrolone and begin the generation of the phenolic A-ring…the definitive step in converting an androgen (or 19-norandrogen in this case) into an estrogen.
Recall that the CYP 450arom played a catalytic role, speeding up the classic aromatase reaction. CYP 450 monooxygenase is much slower and less efficient. This accounts for the comments that nandrolone aromatizes at a rate of 20 percent of testosterone or androstenediol.3 In fact, the rate may be much less. Realizing that Deca is injected intra-muscularly and disperses slowly, and the enzyme system discussed in the Climacteric article was specific to the liver, it is unlikely that standard nandrolone-containing cycles would see a major contribution to feminizing effects from nandrolone being aromatized. However, oral norandrogen-precursors were prominently marketed during the prohormone glory days and an oral norandrogen (7á-methylnortestosterone) is being developed as a potential male contraceptive. It is possible, especially at abusive doses, that such oral norandrogens may elevate estrogen levels sufficiently to cause gynecomastia or other estrogen-related problems. In women provided with oral norandrogens for menopause, researchers speculate that the drugs may hold the potential of increasing estrogen and thus, risk for blood-clotting problems or estrogen-sensitive cancers.


Nandrolone is considered a relatively safe AAS and has been used extensively by recreational bodybuilders and power athletes. It has rarely been considered to increase the risk of estrogen-related problems, as steroids missing the 19-carbon are not substrates for the classic aromatization reaction. However, in addition to its capacity to stimulate progesterone receptors (a related group of feminizing sex steroid hormones), nandrolone may also increase estrogen levels via a secondary aromatase reaction, promoting the development of gynecomastia and prolonging the delay in restoring natural testosterone production post-cycle. Classic aromatization of testosterone or other androgens may also be accelerated by nandrolone. Oral forms of nandrolone, including prohormones, likely have a much higher estrogenic index and a higher risk of estrogenic side effects due to hepatic (liver) first pass clearance.
Very nicely written and very informative..

[SimpleAddar]

Great thread bro

[busa2009]

Good read def. I will be book marking this


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[gweggy 74]

There's a few guys running deca alone on another board and logging it all.
4 or 5 weeks in and they seem to have little to no problems but time will tell.

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[gweggy 74]

Great read. Thanks for posting

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[N00dlez]

Def. a good read, thank you. I've both NPP and Deca and NPP is the way to go.

[Vision]

Gents, I'm glad this info has helped everyone, lets continue to educate one an other and have each others back, share, assist and pass on the info with ANYTHING in this lifestyle... education is power..

[Taeian]

It would be best if you actually posted studies and links to the studies of what you say instead of posting "made up" science that has been posted on forums for years. If you cannot post a study to something maybe dont act like it is a fact.

Also pretty sure everyone knows what I mean when I say testosterone is responsible for the huge estrogen increase in the body... By it being converted.....

You say deca will raise prolactin due to its progesterone effects? Well studies show otherwise that deca actually lowers prolactin where as testosterone raises it, Because evne HRT doses of testosterone raise prolactin and estrogen above range most times.

SAGE Journals: Your gateway to world-class journal research (http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/106002808001400705)
Serum prolactin level was markedly elevated during the control period. It fell during the administration of ND and increased with the use of TE.


Now you also state decas effects on raising estrogen? Of course this is true this is why only eq deca and dbol are shown to fully replace Stestosterones effect in the body. But you state It can raise it to very high levels causing gynecomastia?

Well I I dont know howto post pictures but I have a medical endocrinology book from 2016 of 3500 pages that might interest you on this topic.

As well as some charts from studies I would like to post showing even at 300mg of deca a week only produced half that of what 100mg of testosterone would in estrogen, 60pnmol to be exact.

So I would love to see your references legit references on deca causing gynecomastia because I also can post some pictures from Dr robert kerrs book who states out of his 16 years of treating bodybuilders he has never seen deca cause gynocomastia, acne balding or fluid retention in his whole career. And a doctor who treated thousands of bodybuilders how it was known as aprime drug to "cut" on due to its minimal fluid retention.

Also it is one of the few drugs approved for kidney failure due to its miminal effects on fluid retention unlike testosterone. So deca causes more bloat then testosterone?


Also "DHT (in some users) by way of an enzyme called 5-alpha reductase, yielding DHT far more superior and androgenic as an agonist of the androgen receptor, thus being a chemical messenger that binds to a receptor and activates the receptor to produce a GREATER biological response over NANDROLONE (DHN).. "

Ya in what area? You realize scalp/prostate AR is different then muscle tissue right?...... And the reason we USE steroids is to have MINIMAL prostate effect.. for obv... reasons.... and to use a drug that binds STRONGER to muscle tissue AR and not prostate tissue AR... you do know this right? You do know that msucle AR is different the prostate tissue ar right? And that nandrolone binds STRONGER then test to muscle tissue ar and WEAKER to prostate tissue AR? Aka exactly what we want... muscle tissue effects not prostate tissue growth?

Also in the 2016 pead and endo textbook which you should really look at also states again I can screen shot these from the book or maybe find a download link for everyone here to read.

s nandrolonederivatives, these synthetic androgens undergo 5α-reduction605,615 with their 5α-reduced metabolites, have reduced AR-binding affinity,616 and their androgenic activity does not depend on 5α-reduction.617




Nandrolone,deca ill keep refering to it as, as thats what we all commonly call it. Like it states its androgenic activity does not depend on its 5a reduction.. Nandrolone ITSELF is a potent androgen....Hence why the 600 plus people that others know in my group young and old over 50 non stop talk about their amazing libido on deca only and most stating better then testosterone... funny right..


Again deca binds stronger to msucle tissue AR then prostate. (a benefit... not a negative..... ....)

The present results explain the relatively strong effect of nandrolone compared to that of testosterone on target tissues devoid of 5 alpha-reductase activity (e.g. muscular tissue) compared to its relatively weak effect on tissues with a relatively high 5 alpha-reductase content (e.g. prostate)

J Steroid Biochem. (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/4021486#) 1985 Jun;22(6):831-6.
Comparison of the receptor binding properties of nandrolone and testosterone under in vitro and in vivo conditions.

Also would love to know where you came up with this THEORY as its not a fact, about deca having defeminizing effects. Because I dont even have to link the studies here because anyone can easily google deca and virulization ncbi and see the studies up front and center... its a common known side effect in medical literature.. Its just what we want however... less virulizing sides then testosterone. We arent here to run 100mg testosterone which nets us normal to high end range estrogen dht and prolactin. We are here to use drugs in the 500mg range Plus that provides further anabolic benefit, while having normal dht, normal estrogen, normal proalctin and none of the typica lsides.

[Taeian]

Also others talking about a few guys running deca only seeming to have no problems like this is something new. I have a good few hundreds.. hundreds that have been doing it for years now anyone in my group has seen this. Weather they are on short cycles or year round. Older and younger, many feeling better libido then test ever gave them.

Everyone needs to realize not everyone when they want to start a cycle... they dont want hairloss gyno acne, or to take more drugs to control it like AI which can further damage hairline lipids and bone health. Many would like to just take a side free cycle. But instead you are told to suck it up shave your head, use a AI hurt your health more. No that is bullshit and there is other ways to do things... and not have to deal with the depression one can get from these sides like testosterone.

Also anyone saying how deca is more surpressive yet studies show higher sperm count on deca mg per mg and same lh and fsh values.

[Taeian]

And one more thing to point out the positives, its not about better gains or anything like that. Its about users finally being able to cycle without the dreaded sides..

Everyone who deals with horrible water retention, NONE
acne, and having to use extremely harsh accutane and alike. NONE
gyno.. NONE even guys running 3 grams who got gyno off 100mg testosterone.. NONE and these guys are in the HUNDREDS in my group.
Hairloss ,none but actually growing BACK


People can do whatever the hell they want... thats all im trying to preach to people. Meaning if you want to avoid acne gyno hairloss and are very prone..and people FORCE You into believing that testosterone is the ONLY WAY. well no they are full of shit and going to worsen your mental health when you want to do a cycle that could be free of all these sides. I could sit here for hours posting post from ym groups of people of all ages saying thank you so much finally no more constant hard to control gyno or acne no more mood swings no more libido issues up and down with high test.

Point is what MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS would tell you... and what bodybuilders have done for decades and hundreds following me.. deca CAN replace testosterone fully . Open up a medical textbook for once and learn how these hormones work. Or better yet let me find a link like i said above so you all can actually read a medical textbook for once and not take answers from idiots online who have never read a textbook in their lives trying to tell you you NEED testosterone when other hormones can fully replace it and in a better manner health wise as well.

[Gunrunner]

Deca only or cycles without Test is nothing new. We did it a lot in the 80s and 90s. Most cycles then were single compound cycles. Not much stacking except an Oil and an Oral. The main cycle back then was Deca n dBol. I made great gains with this and without any issues. Also no AIs or Caber then either.

[Vision]

Deca only or cycles without Test is nothing new. We did it a lot in the 80s and 90s. Most cycles then were single compound cycles. Not much stacking except an Oil and an Oral. The main cycle back then was Deca n dBol. I made great gains with this and without any issues. Also no AIs or Caber then either.

We all ran them back when, but the evolution of AAS use has been tested vetted and improved 10 fold since we used DECA only cycles or oral only.

As someone once told me - Hitler was injecting damn bull sperm and everything u could think of to increase his libido under the care of a doctor lol ,NOW Look how far we have come by sifting threw bro science and bs.

[Gunrunner]

All the negative effects don’t show up until Test is added in.
Test causes bloat, acne, elevated Estro etc.

[Weapon X]

Reading your post brought back memories LOL. First cycle I ever ran was Deçà and Dbol in the early 80's. Sounds like you go back about as far as I do? Remember Lemon Deçà in 2ml bottles? How bout the 50ml bottles of Fina Jet (tren)?
Deca only or cycles without Test is nothing new. We did it a lot in the 80s and 90s. Most cycles then were single compound cycles. Not much stacking except an Oil and an Oral. The main cycle back then was Deca n dBol. I made great gains with this and without any issues. Also no AIs or Caber then either.

[Gunrunner]

DECA DBOL CYCLE - NO TEST - WEEK 1 - GOLDEN ERA STEROID CYCLE LOG - YouTube (https://youtu.be/qvPOOd473_4)

[Gunrunner]

My two favorite cycles back then we’re Deca/DBol or EQ/Adrol.

I never had issues with bloat, acne or libido.

I look at at people today who say you have to use Test but have never tried the other cycles.
I run no Test cycles now and don’t need any AIs or nasty Caber or Prami.
I will cruise on Low Test in between blasts.

[Vision]

All the negative effects don’t show up until Test is added in.
Test causes bloat, acne, elevated Estro etc.

That's false, because these effects are individually based on ones own hormone sensitivity with the effects of numerous hormones and the cascade of events that take place within the static system, one hormone is not solely responsible for bloat, or acne or elevated estro, this is a factor that is determined by the possession of specific enzymes.

[Taeian]

That's false, because these effects are individually based on ones own hormone sensitivity with the effects of numerous hormones and the cascade of events that take place within the static system, one hormone is not solely responsible for bloat, or acne or elevated estro, this is a factor that is determined by the possession of specific enzymes.


not being rude but not everyones "opinion" Is correct. And your asnwer was extremely vague to his question. We know how many of these side effects happen and specially with steroids and how many are quiet similar. There is a reason why doctors who treated bodybuilders and gym rats for decades before the steroid ban have said how they preffered items like deca over testosterone due to bloating acne and gyno issues. And this isnt just backed up by doctors words/books even but by actual studies... As we have comparison studies on deca vs test as well which is always noted deca having better quality of life, less sides in every aspect. Deca is proven in studies to lower prolactin so will not cause gyno there.. Deca is proven to make an extreme miniscule amount of estrogen compared to testosterone proven as well. And likely why doctors like dr robert kerr has said he has never encounted a single case of gyno or bloating in his 16 years vof practice. And that deca was known as a prime cutting drug due to its lack of bloat which many bodybuilders from before the test era fully agree with. Which I can post many personal convos no names blurred of old bodybuilders agreeing with all of the above. As well with the studies.

[Taeian]

17735
17736
Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet (https://imgur.com/GuP6ymI)
Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet (https://imgur.com/sddhr9u)
http://i63.tinypic.com/ekndqu.png

http://i68.tinypic.com/rayupx.png
Just wanted my intial reply since it had info and links to some studies.

[Taeian]

https://imgur.com/a/EOIBqhttps://imgur.com/a/EOIBq

[urkel]

Thanks for the info and your right, I have seen this new trend of deca only or low test high deca cycles and was really wondering about it because everthing i ever heard was the exact opposite so im glad this article confirmed those concepts.

[Plate Smacker]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcmetbnPf2c


Here they are... I am trying to find what other motives they have for pushing this...
There are alot of other people following this on youtube...
I have not tried it, so I can't knock it.
I know from personal experience, that studies only go so far compared to my personal experience.

[Plate Smacker]

These touch on the subject..
Do they hold any truth?


https://youtu.be/NC9Bim__aAE


https://youtu.be/4F5XTARvE1E

[Sssxc]

These touch on the subject..
Do they hold any truth?


https://youtu.be/NC9Bim__aAE


https://youtu.be/4F5XTARvE1EWatched some of his other videos and they are full of shit...
So I imagine these are similar.

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[Vision]

Watched some of his other videos and they are full of shit...
So I imagine these are similar.

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

DYLAN is a fucking dork..he parrots everything!

[Primemuscle]

Good post Vision. And good info from the other guys posting their experience and insight on deca only cycles. It’s definitely a grey area depending upon how one individually reacts to the protocol being used. It’s not a one size fits all in this game so good food for thought to hear reasoning from both sides on this topic [emoji1305]


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[xlr8mechanism]

All the negative effects don’t show up until Test is added in.
Test causes bloat, acne, elevated Estro etc.

to me if it is true that test is more to blame its like the other stacked compunds amplify the sides

[Montego]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcmetbnPf2c


Here they are... I am trying to find what other motives they have for pushing this...
There are alot of other people following this on youtube...
I have not tried it, so I can't knock it.
I know from personal experience, that studies only go so far compared to my personal experience.These clowns ran "Deca only cycles" and one of them got test test that was labeled Deca.

Goes to show how much thought they really put into this social media celebrity shit show.

If I were as "well connected" and "knowledgeable" as these fellas, I would have probably been able to get real Deca....

[xlr8mechanism]

Good post Vision. And good info from the other guys posting their experience and insight on deca only cycles. It’s definitely a grey area depending upon how one individually reacts to the protocol being used. It’s not a one size fits all in this game so good food for thought to hear reasoning from both sides on this topic [emoji1305]


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always love reading more info . good bad or indifferent

[Primemuscle]

always love reading more info . good bad or indifferent

I concur X. I think it helps expand ones mind and gives new depth/perception to things


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[xlr8mechanism]

but let me say this . unless it will be a big risk to people's health and longevity . if there was a huge break through that allowed people to become 400 lbs monsters in months than the whole thing would become kinda boring . most of the biggest part and in joyment of bodybuilding is to see those finally well earned attempts of growing . its all about the struggle . its a trophy of what we have done and little have . and if you have people blowing up it would ruin the sport . unless its a well kept secret and a few chosen would recieve the info .

[xlr8mechanism]

its like playing a game for years and years becuase its hard like a good rpg game and then getting the game editor . at first yeah you level up like a son a bitch but the game is ruined

[xlr8mechanism]

Watched some of his other videos and they are full of shit...
So I imagine these are similar.

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hey this is dylan gemmeli here sucking cock.

[xlr8mechanism]

19348

[Vision]

These clowns ran "Deca only cycles" and one of them got test test that was labeled Deca.

Goes to show how much thought they really put into this social media celebrity shit show.

If I were as "well connected" and "knowledgeable" as these fellas, I would have probably been able to get real Deca....

Exactly man their entire experiment blew up in their face. If someone is going to publicize something as enormous as that stint was at least have all of your Ducks lined up so in case something does go sour you can save your face.. they just look like the biggest tool bags at the end of the day especially in their video while eating f****** Donuts talking about water retention.. they're trying to f****** hard!!

[UPL101]

I agree with the post, In my opinion running any cycle without test in your system can be really harsh on you, and nobody knows the real side effects this will lead to in years to come.. Saying this ive still seen allot of good results from customers who ran deca only cycles.
It's all about trial and error and seing how your body reacts!

[Plate Smacker]

They contradict themselves in different videos.
In this video @0:58 seconds they give a different theory of using Testosterone as a foundation "we need testosterone in our bodues while running other anabolics, because we need it to convert to estrogen and DHT...."
"You will find alot of "enhanced athletes" running 250mg -600mg Test E or C"

Now, their own cycle theory could change as they do more research on their own bodies... however.

I am not knocking it, just know that.
LET ME STRESS THIS, I AM NOT TRYING TO DISCREDIT THEM. As they research and try this, it may or may not work for them. I would hope they are honest in their findings, as they have a larger viewer base and it would be beneficial to the viewers if they were truthful and straight up.

I just feel adding some Testosterone would benefit.

Controlling with an AI would be key. Everyone is different as we know.

I have never used Deca but plan on shortly.
I am merely going off science.
So really my opinion does not hold full weight.

I think people should try it... and report.
I am not experienced enough yet.
I am currently running: 700mg Test E./wk and Aromasin 12.5mg EOD, and will move to E3D in about 2 weeks for testing.
I have chosen the blast and cruise route.
Deca will be getting added, but going to run NPP alongside Deca for first 5 weeks, then drop NPP.


https://youtu.be/_iR5CoGAEZ4

[Vision]

They contradict themselves in different videos.
In this video @0:58 seconds they give a different theory of using Testosterone as a foundation "we need testosterone in our bodues while running other anabolics, because we need it to convert to estrogen and DHT...."
"You will find alot of "enhanced athletes" running 250mg -600mg Test E or C"

Now, their own cycle theory could change as they do more research on their own bodies... however.

I am not knocking it, just know that.
LET ME STRESS THIS, I AM NOT TRYING TO DISCREDIT THEM. As they research and try this, it may or may not work for them. I would hope they are honest in their findings, as they have a larger viewer base and it would be beneficial to the viewers if they were truthful and straight up.

I just feel adding some Testosterone would benefit.

Controlling with an AI would be key. Everyone is different as we know.

I have never used Deca but plan on shortly.
I am merely going off science.
So really my opinion does not hold full weight.

I think people should try it... and report.
I am not experienced enough yet.
I am currently running: 700mg Test E./wk and Aromasin 12.5mg EOD, and will move to E3D in about 2 weeks for testing.
I have chosen the blast and cruise route.
Deca will be getting added, but going to run NPP alongside Deca for first 5 weeks, then drop NPP.


https://youtu.be/_iR5CoGAEZ4

Nice post...well put... Best reply here yet.

[Plate Smacker]

Just found out Enhanced Athlete was raided and youtube deleted their channel. Now everything is being ran from their other channel. Only mentioning for security reasons. Found out through channel of someone they sponsor. Youtube channel deletion confirmed.... not actual raid.