When to make the call to TRT?

[justlikemusic]

Since the last cycle I did which ended about 8 months ago, I've done two PCT's and it seems Clomid raises my Test/FSH/LH slightly but not by much.

I am 34 years old and my "baseline" testosterone level seems to hover around 350ng/dl (12nmol) - FSH 3 and LH 1. Everything that I have read has made me think that a more "normal" (or TRT level) is about 550ng/dl (19nmol). Before my second PCT in early July 2017, my test was 11.3nmol (326ng/dl) and FSH 3 and LH 1. After the second PCT, Clomid 50mg ED had me return a result of 13.1nmol (378ng/dl), FSH 5 and LH 4 in Late July 2017, however weighing up the side effects between the two, I might do better on TRT. I had a blood test a couple days ago so I will post the results on Monday/Tuesday. These results would be about 8 months after cycle, two months after second PCT.

I have a new doctor that seems quite open to working with me on my personal health and he takes alot of time with me on anything I need. I just don't think he can really help me if I don't meet the criteria for TRT. I will view the results of the test with him next week but my 350ng/dl Test level "looks fine" to all other GP's I've seen (because it fits within the range, yup, same range my 86 year old grandfather uses).

I'm wondering whether it's a bad idea to start with a bit of a jump start with 2 weeks of Test Cyp 500mg/week then drop to 250mg/week for 12 weeks. Then move to maybe 180mg/week for (a month? How long? ) and get tested for Test levels. I'd also want to use Deca in my cycle as my joints aren’t very good – I’ve now discovered a contributing factor might be low testosterone my whole life. However I have always wanted to try Equipoise and given I will move to a cruise test level after the cycle, I can probably continue administering the EQ for a few weeks more. Summer in the southern hemisphere is coming and I cycled last summer and felt absolutely amazing.

I personally think I'd rather be in a higher range of "normal" with the test, maybe 550mg/week had me thinking with my Dick a bit more than I should have been... hence me suggesting the 250mg/week. I always wanted to try EQ because when I am on cycle I find my appetite absolutely goes to crap and I am never hungry (I never use pre-workout or any stimulants). I also want to explore EQ's magical healing properties and goodness, lol. Deca is a God-send to me on cycle so could someone please recommend a "cycle" with transition to TRT for me?

Thank you very much. I'll be starting in mid November whatever I decide on.


Disclaimer: I've had my kids, don't want any more. I've done four cycles of Test/Deca over the past three years. Last cycle was a big 20 weeker.

[artofwar]

bloody doctor's with their "testosterone range" it's outdated and it doesn't work.

I am also thinking about trt or just doing it myself but it would be nice to have a doctor on-board

[Torcha]

jlm is back.and in business... awesome! good to see alive and kicking!
ghrp6 will stimulate hunger if u needed another option.. thou bold has of late been quite popular..think th quality is right up there days...its so very mild and takes so long. well worthy of a cruise, thou at a high dose in my opinion.

[Robocop_9]

My levels were 395 when I got my trt. Go over your blood work with your dr. If he is a decent dr he will get you the script knowing 300 is the low range and normal for an 80yr old.


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[justlikemusic]

My levels were 395 when I got my trt. Go over your blood work with your dr. If he is a decent dr he will get you the script knowing 300 is the low range and normal for an 80yr old.


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Robo, I'm in Australia so I don't think that works here. It's my understanding that recently the TRT laws changed from 8 nmol to 6 nmol and I believe that if your tests were over 6 but under 8 before you went onto TRT you have to cease your TRT and see if you test under 6 to resume it. Sitting around 12 nmol it doesn't seem that I will be eligible.

One thing I want to learn this time around is pinning in different areas as each cheek copping it every 3.5 days is probably too much for a long term plan and I think if I mix it up with delt shots I will be much happier as it seems after 6 to 8 weeks I'm really over the injections. I have run a cycle at every 5 days before but recently I had a 2 mil injection of cortisone and saw how much that actually is when it goes in so I think it would be better to keep too small injections more frequently and obviously that has its benefits.

Hey Torcha, Yup looks like I'm back for the long haul. Been eight months off cycle dealing with life problems and not training because of being too busy moving house in and out and in and out from ex so went from 5'11" 104kg looking pretty lean to 112kg, muscle loss and feel like a fat prick with a gut lol

[justlikemusic]

My levels were 395 when I got my trt. Go over your blood work with your dr. If he is a decent dr he will get you the script knowing 300 is the low range and normal for an 80yr old.


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Got test results today, 11.2nmol but 212 for Free Test which is under the range. I told the doc I spoke to (some young kid, my doc wasn't there) that the 13nmol result was on Clomid so I think they can just get fucked and I'll start TRT myself.

So yea, would a 34 year old with 11nmol / 320ngdl baseline test level be worth going on TRT?

And is it all good to start with a small cycle and then drop in to TRT afterwards?

[Robocop_9]

Got test results today, 11.2nmol but 212 for Free Test which is under the range. I told the doc I spoke to (some young kid, my doc wasn't there) that the 13nmol result was on Clomid so I think they can just get fucked and I'll start TRT myself.

So yea, would a 34 year old with 11nmol / 320ngdl baseline test level be worth going on TRT?

And is it all good to start with a small cycle and then drop in to TRT afterwards?

Like I said I'm only 32 and I'm on trt for life. Find a knowledgeable dr man.


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[justlikemusic]

So went for a follow up with my GP today and he said the Free Testosterone levels were a bit low (212pmol/L - Pathology "normal" range on results is 225-725) and I should wait another month, re-do blood tests and if they are still low he will refer me to an endocrinologist. (Even though three months ago my level was 11.3nmol and free test 234pmol). I said to him that I had problems with sleep, hence why I've been on a low dose (12.5mg) of off label use of seroquel for sleep every night. Even though when it kicks in I find myself with killer restless leg syndrome and can't sleep so well, low energy/drive/motivation, reduced sexual performance and that I've been using viagra for years (I only use about a quarter of a tablet when I've been drinking but they dont need to know that)....... so he gives me a prescription for an SSRI/AntiDepressant, Escitalopram. Im not depressed, I'm living the dream... I just cant sleep well and I feel like shit and sexual performance isn't where it should be.

I rang a place called the "Wellmen Clinic" and the guy basically told me it was $440 for two visits which would take over two hours for the first visit and basically it would result to them putting me on the testosterone cream/gel and when I said that I have young children and I heard it could be bad, he said that if I were to be put on injections it would be three monthly. Neither of those options will suffice for me.

From everything I have read TRT in Australia is a joke unless you find a good doctor and I'm not going to keep wasting my time seeing doctor after doctor so now I'll just get on cycle for summer and when I come off, after a four week PCT, I'll continue on a low dose of Clomid 25mg EOD or something and see where I'm at with a couple months of Clomid. I should probably do it the other way around but I gotta lean out a bit for summer and quick.

[Boxsquatter]

When I got on my trt I went to a urologist not a endocrinologist. On that specializes in men’s health. Yes they are out their. With numbers like that you def qualify for TRT. And any dr not willing to get you started is a quack. That being said it took about a year for me to get inj. First they started the cream for six weeks. Which I didn’t use then got bloods thirr was no gain. Then they went to pellets and they put so many that my test level was around 1300 for two months so he decided it was hard to regulate. Finally the put me on inj and I have been on them ever since. Now Besides my dr test I am on my own along with one compound or another all year long. All I do is before my bloods I stop my high test and lower to my dr dose!prob 2 weeks out depending on how much I was using. It works for me every time. Hope it works out and just keep finding dr till one puts you on. I don’t care if you have to drive 2 hrs from your house. THATS MY 2cents

[LoveOz]

I know what you're going through mate. Im in Australia and I'm on prescribed trt but it was a long depressing road. You're right about needing 2 seperate blood tests under 6 to even start the process.
Good luck.

[Chemical Romance]

I'm in Australia and screwed around with the Doctor for ages with gels, eventually he referred me to a urologist and the day after seeing him I started on TRT.

Initially on 250mg every 2 weeks in the Dr office but this produced a bit of a yoyo in my T levels and I felt crap by day 10, he now allows me to self inject so I do 125mg twice a week and feel much better for it.

[justlikemusic]

I know what you're going through mate. Im in Australia and I'm on prescribed trt but it was a long depressing road. You're right about needing 2 seperate blood tests under 6 to even start the process.
Good luck.

It's my understanding that they can give you androgens on a private script ... That's basically what my new awesome doctor said. He said wait one month and get tested and go to an endocrinologist and work with them and "if your levels are low we will treat it with androgens". He said it's not about the numbers it's more how you feel. Well I'm going on cycle this week so I'll put this on pause for the next six months lol I'm not in a position to mess around with gels and shit right now. Party season is 7 weeks away lol

[350zsidewayzz]

LH can be a 7 or a 2 and yield the same test level. has to do with sensitivity of the leydig cells in the testes i believe. also LH is sent in pulses so its not always a constant number.

i say this because if u dont want to do TRT then u can still check prolactin, estrogen, SHBG, but if those numbers are good, and since the clomid didnt help i would think ur most likely primary hypogonadic. and need TRT.

im on TRT. for life. and i think i won the lottery with it.
see a urologist.

worst case scenario find a specialist NOTTTTTTT A GENERAL DOCTOR. theyre fuckin dumb . take an oral to crash ur t level but maintain gains. the blood test. and do it quick so ur liver aint fucked.

[justlikemusic]

Bro I think your post gave me some luck, I have now started my TRT but the doctor said pin 250mg fortnightly and then we agreed on once per week if I wanted to do that (125mg). He wants bloods on the fortnightly regime on day 8, however on the weekly/7 day regime, on day 4. Would I be better off with two 250mg pins a fortnight apart and then bloods a week later? (Then leave the office and go on weekly pin?) I think my test might not.be so shutdown to make me feel like shit after 8-14 days straight up and the 8 days off 250mg would put me lower than 4 days off 125mg. Brothers am I on the right track?

This way if 125mg week puts me too high, I know what baseline to work with.

[superchumbo]

How did you ever find a doc in Aus so open to TRT?
I'm kinda in the same boat as you - Test levels measured the last 5 years showed it between 12-14 (nmol)

Because I'm within the ref range of the labs, GP won't prescribe TRT. Referral to an endo also came up the same answer, unless I was below 6 (nmol) to qualify for a PBS script.

The only option was one of those anti-ageing clinics which are so expensive as hell.

Honestly thinking of self-prescribing TRT (since I'm late 30s, and don't want kids)


Bro I think your post gave me some luck, I have now started my TRT but the doctor said pin 250mg fortnightly and then we agreed on once per week if I wanted to do that (125mg). He wants bloods on the fortnightly regime on day 8, however on the weekly/7 day regime, on day 4. Would I be better off with two 250mg pins a fortnight apart and then bloods a week later? (Then leave the office and go on weekly pin?) I think my test might not.be so shutdown to make me feel like shit after 8-14 days straight up and the 8 days off 250mg would put me lower than 4 days off 125mg. Brothers am I on the right track?

This way if 125mg week puts me too high, I know what baseline to work with.

[justlikemusic]

To be honest if I have to pin this primoteston for the rest of my life im going to be fucked. Every time I pin it on day three after injection my ass is so sore i cant even sit on it and by day four its in so much pain and day five it seems to subside. The only reason why I'm staying on trt with the doctor is for the legal aspect of it. If i got caught with ugl i could show proof that pharma messed me up and that would be my excuse. I could provide the court regular bloods and show i was never "abusing" it. With what I currently have I am pinning test 450 0.3ml, primoteston 0.3ml, npp 1ml (to dilute it) like every 5/6 days but I think im going to have to order some test e 250 and blend in the other stuff slowly to use it up.

I think complaints to the doctor/pharmacy/bayer are going to just get nowhere. Im wondering if the prefilled syringes are causing the problem? When I mix either test 450 or primoteston 250 with the npp you can see the gluggy test blending in there. I heat the vials, mix the syringe and heat the site pre and post inj and still get mad pain, significantly less when I use lesser amounts of test and all the extra heating. I think it's not moving around in there and after a while might be crashing in there? Post injection there is no pain whatsoever other than the first couple minutes of mild injection pain but thats fck all. Its after 24 hours when it really starts to come on and then day three all hell breaks loose. I even think my body is fighting it and it's making me feel a little ill. Its not infected or anything like that. I have had four cycles before, last one ran like 20 weeks but no pain like this! All good, if i can brace through this shit, it will be a good kick start to a life on trt lol

[Primemuscle]

To be honest if I have to pin this primoteston for the rest of my life im going to be fucked. Every time I pin it on day three after injection my ass is so sore i cant even sit on it and by day four its in so much pain and day five it seems to subside. The only reason why I'm staying on trt with the doctor is for the legal aspect of it. If i got caught with ugl i could show proof that pharma messed me up and that would be my excuse. I could provide the court regular bloods and show i was never "abusing" it. With what I currently have I am pinning test 450 0.3ml, primoteston 0.3ml, npp 1ml (to dilute it) like every 5/6 days but I think im going to have to order some test e 250 and blend in the other stuff slowly to use it up.

I think complaints to the doctor/pharmacy/bayer are going to just get nowhere. Im wondering if the prefilled syringes are causing the problem? When I mix either test 450 or primoteston 250 with the npp you can see the gluggy test blending in there. I heat the vials, mix the syringe and heat the site pre and post inj and still get mad pain, significantly less when I use lesser amounts of test and all the extra heating. I think it's not moving around in there and after a while might be crashing in there? Post injection there is no pain whatsoever other than the first couple minutes of mild injection pain but thats fck all. Its after 24 hours when it really starts to come on and then day three all hell breaks loose. I even think my body is fighting it and it's making me feel a little ill. Its not infected or anything like that. I have had four cycles before, last one ran like 20 weeks but no pain like this! All good, if i can brace through this shit, it will be a good kick start to a life on trt lol

Honestly after what I just read it sounds like one of those vials is bunk. The oil should never be ‘gluggy.’ So I would throw that away ASAP and stop putting that into my body. Also I think there’s no need to always heat up the vials every time before you pin. But that’s just my two cents based off of my experience and insight. Hope that helps


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[julskee]

Curious what state in Australia you guys are from that got prescribed trt?

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[justlikemusic]

Honestly after what I just read it sounds like one of those vials is bunk. The oil should never be ‘gluggy.’ So I would throw that away ASAP and stop putting that into my body. Also I think there’s no need to always heat up the vials every time before you pin. But that’s just my two cents based off of my experience and insight. Hope that helps


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Thanks bro, i appreciate the feedback. The "gluggy" description is more a mix of what seems to be different viscosity oils. There is no crashing that I can see that's going on in the vials. The Test 450 will probably be thick from the amount of raws in it and the Test 250 which I get on prescription from the pharmacy comes in pre-loaded 1ml syringes and they both have that look when mixed with the "lighter" oil of the npp. Ill get a pic tomorrow when I pin. The doctor did 1ml of the prescription test in my delt and two days later my arm was hurting, day three it was swollen and by day five I was back at a different doctors because it felt like something (Intense pain mixed with swelling mixed with heat) was oozing through my arm and eventually settled around my bicep. It made my bicep look so fkn huge. Day 5 I had to work with an ice pack strapped to my arm and went on antibiotics and ibuprofen and after a couple days it settled down. I think the pre-filled syringes could be shit. I think the fact that 3x 1ml pre filled syringes cost $35 at the chemist would make the gear crap too. It's probably manufactured really cheaply. I see UGL with those three packs selling them for $225 each though lol. I am wondering what I do with my TRT from here on in since the pain is unbearable. Do I tell my doc I wanna go ugl gear haha (jk) I guess $35 a month extra to not have a constant ass cheek sore is worth it.

Is it possible I have a reaction to this certain type of carrier oil? And maybe that's (the pharma test) the same base as Alphabeast's 450? I never had problems with alphabeast's gear before and I wouldnt blame his gear because it's always been good since I started using it last year around september 2016 if i recall correctly. I thought because I was blending it with the npp there would be a significantly less amount of pip. I should just go pin 1ml of npp and see how that turns out.

[Primemuscle]

Thanks bro, i appreciate the feedback. The "gluggy" description is more a mix of what seems to be different viscosity oils. There is no crashing that I can see that's going on in the vials. The Test 450 will probably be thick from the amount of raws in it and the Test 250 which I get on prescription from the pharmacy comes in pre-loaded 1ml syringes and they both have that look when mixed with the "lighter" oil of the npp. Ill get a pic tomorrow when I pin. The doctor did 1ml of the prescription test in my delt and two days later my arm was hurting, day three it was swollen and by day five I was back at a different doctors because it felt like something (Intense pain mixed with swelling mixed with heat) was oozing through my arm and eventually settled around my bicep. It made my bicep look so fkn huge. Day 5 I had to work with an ice pack strapped to my arm and went on antibiotics and ibuprofen and after a couple days it settled down. I think the pre-filled syringes could be shit. I think the fact that 3x 1ml pre filled syringes cost $35 at the chemist would make the gear crap too. It's probably manufactured really cheaply. I see UGL with those three packs selling them for $225 each though lol. I am wondering what I do with my TRT from here on in since the pain is unbearable. Do I tell my doc I wanna go ugl gear haha (jk) I guess $35 a month extra to not have a constant ass cheek sore is worth it.

Is it possible I have a reaction to this certain type of carrier oil? And maybe that's (the pharma test) the same base as Alphabeast's 450? I never had problems with alphabeast's gear before and I wouldnt blame his gear because it's always been good since I started using it last year around september 2016 if i recall correctly. I thought because I was blending it with the npp there would be a significantly less amount of pip. I should just go pin 1ml of npp and see how that turns out.

Well if it’s not bunk my next guess would have been what you just said: a reaction to the carrier oil. You should ask your doctor what carrier oil is being used or straight up tell him you think you’re having a reaction to that specific oil and to use a oil that is made with a different carrier oil


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[justlikemusic]

So pinned alphabeast (mct base) test 450 (0.7ml) and npp 0.3ml three days ago in ventroglute and same symptoms but it feels more like a pain in the hip and I can.actually sit on my ass.

Today received UPL (mct based oils) and pinned 1.5ml test e (250mg/ml) and 0.5ml deca(200mg/ml) tonight so will report back on that. I think I pinned a little too quick because the oil was so smooth but cant feel anything right now.

The prescription test was castor oil based.