Best cutting cycle without tren

[Jackman96]

Hey brothers I’ve done two cycles thus far.
First cycle test only, second was test and dbol.
Ran 500 test the first time and 750 the second time. Got bloods both times and both where underdosed so basically like two cycles at 400 or so.

I’m a powerlifter that has bulked to a meaty 250 pounds at around 20 percent bf.

Best lifts in competiton are 529 squat 408 bench and 573 deadlift.
What can I run to increase strength while dropping body fat into my next competiton.
I was thinking 1gram test with orals before the meet?
Maybe high test/ low deca
What’s yalls thoughts?
Really trying to stay away from tren and save it for down the road when i really need the assistance for record numbers.


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[Primemuscle]

I would suggest running NPP instead of deca. It’s more versatile and can be used in place of tren. You could also use EQ but gotta be careful when cutting because it can increase appetite. NPP is not quite as effective as tren but it can get the job done granted your diet is dialed in. Also for orals I would say tbol, anavar or winstrol. Any of those will yield dry gains especially the latter two


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[Primemuscle]

I would suggest running NPP instead of deca. It’s more versatile and can be used in place of tren. You could also use EQ but gotta be careful when cutting because it can increase appetite. NPP is not quite as effective as tren but it can get the job done granted your diet is dialed in. Also for orals I would say tbol, anavar or winstrol. Any of those will yield dry gains especially the latter two


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Or better yet I would say give this a run:
Test/NPP/Masteron for 8-12 weeks. Use anavar or winstrol or both last 4 weeks


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[Jackman96]

[QUOTE=Primemuscle;670392]Or better yet I would say give this a run:
Test/NPP/Masteron for 8-12 weeks. Use anavar or winstrol or both last 4 weeks


What’s your opinion on deca vs npp? I’ve heard it’s very similar effects and deca is much cheaper.
I’m not concerned about a little more water weight as a powerlifter. Just trying to be a little less fat lol!

[G160]

Or better yet I would say give this a run:
Test/NPP/Masteron for 8-12 weeks. Use anavar or winstrol or both last 4 weeks


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[babybull34]

Although a toxic oral that you can't use for long periods, Halo is a godsend for powerlifting, JM. It will dry you out and won't put on pounds but will make you strong as phuck. Seriously huge increases in my reps and poundage.

How long until your next meet and do they test? Do you have at least 12 weeks? I am assuming our goal is to increase strength first and foremost?

As far as orals, Abombs, DBols, Winstrol, Superdrol, and Halo have given me the greatest strength gains.

Abombs and Superdrol both gave me severe lethargy and headaches and Abombs give me nosebleeds, bad. But the strength was great.

DBol give me 50/50 size and strength but also give me estro issues and QUICKLY diminish once completed.

Winstrol I love. Dry keep-able gains with incredible strength but it dries out my joints so I only run it with Deca or EQ now to increase synovial fluid. I would be concerned about this with powerlifting. One over-exertion and you could tear a tendon or ligament very easy with Winstrol. Given your focus, I would be cautious of winny.

Halo, it's liver toxic and it will cause significant aggression but it keeps you dry without decreasing synovial fluid and gives me as much, if not more, strength as Superdrol and Abombs. Great stuff for powerlifting and 1RM activities.

I am not sure what your time frame is and if this meet tests you or not. If they don't and you have at least 12 weeks, I personally would do something like this:

Test No Ester @ 100mg on workout days - Week 1-12
Test Prop @ 100mg/day - Weeks 1-12
NPP @ 100mg/day - Weeks 1-12
Mast A @ 100mg/day - Weeks 1-12
Abombs 50mg/day - Weeks 1-2
Abombs 100mg/day - Weeks 3-4
Halo @ 10mg/day - Week 9
Halo @ 20mg/day - Week 10
Halo @ 30mg/day - Week 11 & 12
TUDCA and NAC throughout for liver support

[Jackman96]

Although a toxic oral that you can't use for long periods, Halo is a godsend for powerlifting, JM. It will dry you out and won't put on pounds but will make you strong as phuck. Seriously huge increases in my reps and poundage.

How long until your next meet and do they test? Do you have at least 12 weeks? I am assuming our goal is to increase strength first and foremost?

As far as orals, Abombs, DBols, Winstrol, Superdrol, and Halo have given me the greatest strength gains.

Abombs and Superdrol both gave me severe lethargy and headaches and Abombs give me nosebleeds, bad. But the strength was great.

DBol give me 50/50 size and strength but also give me estro issues and QUICKLY diminish once completed.

Winstrol I love. Dry keep-able gains with incredible strength but it dries out my joints so I only run it with Deca or EQ now to increase synovial fluid. I would be concerned about this with powerlifting. One over-exertion and you could tear a tendon or ligament very easy with Winstrol. Given your focus, I would be cautious of winny.

Halo, it's liver toxic and it will cause significant aggression but it keeps you dry without decreasing synovial fluid and gives me as much, if not more, strength as Superdrol and Abombs. Great stuff for powerlifting and 1RM activities.

I am not sure what your time frame is and if this meet tests you or not. If they don't and you have at least 12 weeks, I personally would do something like this:

Test No Ester @ 100mg on workout days - Week 1-12
Test Prop @ 100mg/day - Weeks 1-12
NPP @ 100mg/day - Weeks 1-12
Mast A @ 100mg/day - Weeks 1-12
Abombs 50mg/day - Weeks 1-2
Abombs 100mg/day - Weeks 3-4
Halo @ 10mg/day - Week 9
Halo @ 20mg/day - Week 10
Halo @ 30mg/day - Week 11 & 12
TUDCA and NAC throughout for liver support

Thanks for the in-depth cycle layout bro!
I’m very far out from my next competiton was just looking to stock up now while I had the cash.
I’m looking for something affordable to help drop weight and increase strength. I’m not trying to pick a certain weight class or anything just improve the wilks and become more competive.
I recon I’d be looking pretty juicey if I dropped 20lbs of this fluff.
I’m 250lbs right now looking to add about 150lbs in the total and lean down for the next meet. I just competed and left a lot on the platform in terms of squat and dead.
Next competiton would likely be August 4th. I just came off cycle and that gives me time to finish pct drop weight and stay off for 8 weeks and then blast for 16 coming into the competiton.


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[Jackman96]

Although a toxic oral that you can't use for long periods, Halo is a godsend for powerlifting, JM. It will dry you out and won't put on pounds but will make you strong as phuck. Seriously huge increases in my reps and poundage.

How long until your next meet and do they test? Do you have at least 12 weeks? I am assuming our goal is to increase strength first and foremost?

As far as orals, Abombs, DBols, Winstrol, Superdrol, and Halo have given me the greatest strength gains.

Abombs and Superdrol both gave me severe lethargy and headaches and Abombs give me nosebleeds, bad. But the strength was great.

DBol give me 50/50 size and strength but also give me estro issues and QUICKLY diminish once completed.

Winstrol I love. Dry keep-able gains with incredible strength but it dries out my joints so I only run it with Deca or EQ now to increase synovial fluid. I would be concerned about this with powerlifting. One over-exertion and you could tear a tendon or ligament very easy with Winstrol. Given your focus, I would be cautious of winny.

Halo, it's liver toxic and it will cause significant aggression but it keeps you dry without decreasing synovial fluid and gives me as much, if not more, strength as Superdrol and Abombs. Great stuff for powerlifting and 1RM activities.

I am not sure what your time frame is and if this meet tests you or not. If they don't and you have at least 12 weeks, I personally would do something like this:

Test No Ester @ 100mg on workout days - Week 1-12
Test Prop @ 100mg/day - Weeks 1-12
NPP @ 100mg/day - Weeks 1-12
Mast A @ 100mg/day - Weeks 1-12
Abombs 50mg/day - Weeks 1-2
Abombs 100mg/day - Weeks 3-4
Halo @ 10mg/day - Week 9
Halo @ 20mg/day - Week 10
Halo @ 30mg/day - Week 11 & 12
TUDCA and NAC throughout for liver support

Is there anything you think would be good with a lil les gear? Not sure if I’m trying to jump right to 2grams plus after the most I’ve done was 100 prop and 50 dbol/ day!



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[babybull34]

Honestly, JM, you have plenty of time. Sticking with PM and G160's recommendations on Test/NPP/Mast (Test + Nor + DHT). Great stack and you have time for two blasts and proper PCT and time off before your August meet.

My approach would be this:

Cycle 1 (Feb & March)
Test Prop @ 100mg/EOD (350mg/week) - Weeks 1-8
NPP @ 100mg/EOD (350mg/week) - Weeks 1-8
Mast A @ 100mg/EOD (350mg/week) - Weeks 1-8
Anavar 100mg/day - Weeks 1-8
TUDCA and NAC throughout for liver support

Then PCT (April)

Time-Off (May)

Cycle 2 (June, July & August)
Test No Ester @ 100mg on workout days - Week 1-12
Test Prop @ 100mg/EOD (350mg/week) - Weeks 1-8
NPP @ 100mg/EOD (350mg/week) - Weeks 1-8
Mast A @ 100mg/EOD (350mg/week) - Weeks 1-8
Test Prop @ 75mg/day (525mg/week) - Weeks 9-12
NPP @ 75mg/day (525mg/week) - Weeks 9-12
Mast A @ 75mg/day (525mg/week) - Weeks 9-12
Abombs 50mg/day - Weeks 1-2
Abombs 100mg/day - Weeks 3-4
Halo @ 10mg/day - Week 9
Halo @ 20mg/day - Week 10
Halo @ 30mg/day - Week 11 & 12
TUDCA and NAC throughout for liver support

The third option would be my personal choice, which is one longer cycle:
Test Cyp @ 400mg/week - Weeks 1-20
Deca @ 400mg/week - Weeks 1-20
Primo E @ 600mg/week - Weeks 1-6
Primo E @ 800mg/week - Weeks 7-14
Primo E @ 1g/week - Weeks 15-20
Anavar @ 100mg/day - Weeks 1-4
Winstrol 75mg/day - Weeks 10-13
Halo @ 10mg/day - Week 18
Halo @ 20mg/day - Week 19
Halo @ 30mg/day - Week 20
TUDCA and NAC throughout for liver support

Aside from the Halo, this is a very GENTLE cycle. If your diet is on point and you are putting the time in, which if your competing in powerlifting I am assuming you are, you will put on quality lean mass, increase strength, will help increase joint and tendon strength, and drop considerable BF. Additionally, this cycle hits the entire AAS matrix throughout (Test+Nor+DHT+DHB).

This of course would just be my approach. Many ways to skin a cat and many will chime in here. But with the goal of increasing strength, not adding weight, and dropping fat, options can narrow down quickly.

[PJ034]

Are you wanting to cut as in for bodybuilding. I've never heard of cutting for powerlifting. Especially to be a powerlifter under 20%bf.

My non tren cutting cycle is Test P/ Primo or Mast/ Anavar. Anavar has given me ridiculous strength gains almost as good as Anadrol. I'd say better than tren. You could try EQ but personally it makes my joints hurt. I had my only gym injury ever on EQ, and EQ makes me really tired. NPP wouldn't be a bad choice either I just don't have any experience cutting with it to give you a personal opinion. I do have friends I compete with that cut with it though. Hope this helps.

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Edit...Just read all the posts. I see your just trying to clean up and get stronger. A really good buddy of mine who wins most of the masters power lifting meets around here loves anavar because of the strength gains he gets without the sides of using Anadrol or Dbol. He has high bp and the anavar doesn't affect that or make him gain weight. But if you're looking for straight strength imo nothing compares to Anadrol. It took my bench press from 435 to 515 in 8 weeks.

[babybull34]

Are you wanting to cut as in for bodybuilding. I've never heard of cutting for powerlifting. Especially to be a powerlifter under 20%bf.

My non tren cutting cycle is Test P/ Primo or Mast/ Anavar. Anavar has given me ridiculous strength gains almost as good as Anadrol. I'd say better than tren. You could try EQ but personally it makes my joints hurt. I had my only gym injury ever on EQ, and EQ makes me really tired. NPP wouldn't be a bad choice either I just don't have any experience cutting with it to give you a personal opinion. I do have friends I compete with that cut with it though. Hope this helps.

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I like your approach on the Primo, Test, Mast, and Var cycle, PJ034. Solid and complete setup. I get great strength gains from Var as well and very keepable gains.

I get the impression he is cutting for vanity/bodybuilding while wanting to maintain or even increase his strength. JM, correct me if I am wrong here.

PJ has a point here. To be effective at powerlifting your body needs adipose to pull from for extreme lifting. Which is why powerlifters look very different from bodybuilders.

[Primemuscle]

[QUOTE=Primemuscle;670392]Or better yet I would say give this a run:
Test/NPP/Masteron for 8-12 weeks. Use anavar or winstrol or both last 4 weeks


What’s your opinion on deca vs npp? I’ve heard it’s very similar effects and deca is much cheaper.
I’m not concerned about a little more water weight as a powerlifter. Just trying to be a little less fat lol!

I love NPP since it’s a short ester it peaks faster, has less water retention then usual deca and I always feel great when running it. However tbh deca is deca, just short and long ester. With that being said though for some reason NPP seems to have less water retention and a tad more versatile then deca. But like I said regardless of ester if your diet and training are on point the water retention should be minimal anyways. So for your goal either one can suffice


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[Jackman96]

Are you wanting to cut as in for bodybuilding. I've never heard of cutting for powerlifting. Especially to be a powerlifter under 20%bf.

My non tren cutting cycle is Test P/ Primo or Mast/ Anavar. Anavar has given me ridiculous strength gains almost as good as Anadrol. I'd say better than tren. You could try EQ but personally it makes my joints hurt. I had my only gym injury ever on EQ, and EQ makes me really tired. NPP wouldn't be a bad choice either I just don't have any experience cutting with it to give you a personal opinion. I do have friends I compete with that cut with it though. Hope this helps.

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Edit...Just read all the posts. I see your just trying to clean up and get stronger. A really good buddy of mine who wins most of the masters power lifting meets around here loves anavar because of the strength gains he gets without the sides of using Anadrol or Dbol. He has high bp and the anavar doesn't affect that or make him gain weight. But if you're looking for straight strength imo nothing compares to Anadrol. It took my bench press from 435 to 515 in 8 weeks.

Yeah brother I’m by no means trying to do something like a bodybuilder prep.
I’d just like to get down at about 13-14 percent bodyfat to still have a decent lean look for summer while still having a couple extra pounds looking for strength. This would probably require me to drop about 20lbs. I also have high blood pressure and would like to see if dropping the weight helps so I have more room to healithy bloat before my next week.

Right now considering dropping the weight during pct and time off. Which would be until April and then blasting for 4 months into the competiton.
I know it’s not ideal time to cut, but it works out well as far as meet prep and time off goes.
I was thinking 16 weeks
750 or 900 test c depending if 250 or 300 mg/ml vials
450 npp or 450-600 deca
Anavar last 6-8 weeks before competiton
Or halotestin or SuperDrol one month out.
Maybe dbol/abombs cause there cheap
But looking into the suggestion of mast/prop/npp looks like a great stack. I just wouldn’t want to be pinning 3cc ed or eod. And it’s more expensive, but if that’s what it takes so be it!

[PJ034]

Yeah brother I’m by no means trying to do something like a bodybuilder prep.
I’d just like to get down at about 13-14 percent bodyfat to still have a decent lean look for summer while still having a couple extra pounds looking for strength. This would probably require me to drop about 20lbs. I also have high blood pressure and would like to see if dropping the weight helps so I have more room to healithy bloat before my next week.

Right now considering dropping the weight during pct and time off. Which would be until April and then blasting for 4 months into the competiton.
I know it’s not ideal time to cut, but it works out well as far as meet prep and time off goes.
I was thinking 16 weeks
750 or 900 test c depending if 250 or 300 mg/ml vials
450 npp or 450-600 deca
Anavar last 6-8 weeks before competiton
Or halotestin or SuperDrol one month out.
Maybe dbol/abombs cause there cheap
But looking into the suggestion of mast/prop/npp looks like a great stack. I just wouldn’t want to be pinning 3cc ed or eod. And it’s more expensive, but if that’s what it takes so be it!

If you have high bp stay away from any drols or Dbol. If you're 250 and want to drop 7% bf that's roughly 18lbs. But in a 16week well planned cycle you should be able to drop that much bf and gain weight. Maybe just start the Anadrol a week out from your comp. The only way to know what works for you is to do different cycles and see what works.

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[Jackman96]

Alright brothers so I’ve taken what your have said into consideration and came up with something that I can afford. I’m interested in trying monsters sust500 as I’ve seen good post on it recently and they have a npp/masteron/ mastsbol 400/ml that looks good as well.

The cycle would be 14 weeks with .5 cc shot of each eod.

So weeks 1-14
875 sustanon
350 npp
350 masteron
.5adex eod adjusted as needed
Week 13.5-15 500 iu hcg ed(10days)
20mgs nolvadex and 50 mgs clomid ed for the next 25 days
No orals for my blood pressures sake. I’d also be introducing in both npp and masteron which are new compounds for myself. So keep it somewhat simple

How does this look?
I realize the test may be high, but I’ve had problems with low dosed test in the past and would rather have enough to have it higher and adjust if needed than not have enough!

I’m feeling really fat and blood pressure is still stupid high so for health reasons I’m going to drop most of the weight before the start. I’ll probably make it down near 220 and then either cut/recomp into the 220 class or do a lean bulk and come in at or slightly under 242.
I think with this I could easily hit a 1600lb total at either weight.
I’ll be able to finish my current pct and take about 10 weeks off before the start of this blast.


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[babybull34]

Looks good, JM

[PJ034]

Alright brothers so I’ve taken what your have said into consideration and came up with something that I can afford. I’m interested in trying monsters sust500 as I’ve seen good post on it recently and they have a npp/masteron/ mastsbol 400/ml that looks good as well.

The cycle would be 14 weeks with .5 cc shot of each eod.

So weeks 1-14
875 sustanon
350 npp
350 masteron
.5adex eod adjusted as needed
Week 13.5-15 500 iu hcg ed(10days)
20mgs nolvadex and 50 mgs clomid ed for the next 25 days
No orals for my blood pressures sake. I’d also be introducing in both npp and masteron which are new compounds for myself. So keep it somewhat simple

How does this look?
I realize the test may be high, but I’ve had problems with low dosed test in the past and would rather have enough to have it higher and adjust if needed than not have enough!

I’m feeling really fat and blood pressure is still stupid high so for health reasons I’m going to drop most of the weight before the start. I’ll probably make it down near 220 and then either cut/recomp into the 220 class or do a lean bulk and come in at or slightly under 242.
I think with this I could easily hit a 1600lb total at either weight.
I’ll be able to finish my current pct and take about 10 weeks off before the start of this blast.


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I think you'll be happy with this. Anavar would be a good add or even a low dose of dball 25mg a day. But even without the orals you'll like this stack. My only other suggestions would be to up the mast to 500-600 minimum.

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[Jackman96]

I think you'll be happy with this. Anavar would be a good add or even a low dose of dball 25mg a day. But even without the orals you'll like this stack. My only other suggestions would be to up the mast to 500-600 minimum.

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Thanks bro but things have changed if your interested!
I’ve been cruising on 500 test cyp a week running a strict diet with 40 Mcgs clen a day or 2 EC doses. I’ve dropped 20lbs this far and am hoping to loose 7 more in a months time. The diet has been going quite swell, and I lost a lot of weight from the dbol I used into the last competiton quite quickly.

After a months time of crushing with fatburners hopefully I’m at the goal weight of 220 and the competiton prep starts and I plan to recomp and build strength at 220. For 11 weeks the gear will be upped to 750 test e/350 npp
The last four weeks of that will also have 50mgwinny/day
I’m taking .5 Adex every time I shoot a cc of test, and have caber on hand if need be.
Both drugs will be manipulated according to bloodwork. I plan on pulling the bloods right before I up the injectables and also again before I start the Winny to keep everything in check.
If I gain some weight off that stack no big deal but I’d like to stay under 228/ to avoid a big water cut!



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[PJ034]

Thanks bro but things have changed if your interested!
I’ve been cruising on 500 test cyp a week running a strict diet with 40 Mcgs clen a day or 2 EC doses. I’ve dropped 20lbs this far and am hoping to loose 7 more in a months time. The diet has been going quite swell, and I lost a lot of weight from the dbol I used into the last competiton quite quickly.

After a months time of crushing with fatburners hopefully I’m at the goal weight of 220 and the competiton prep starts and I plan to recomp and build strength at 220. For 11 weeks the gear will be upped to 750 test e/350 npp
The last four weeks of that will also have 50mgwinny/day
I’m taking .5 Adex every time I shoot a cc of test, and have caber on hand if need be.
Both drugs will be manipulated according to bloodwork. I plan on pulling the bloods right before I up the injectables and also again before I start the Winny to keep everything in check.
If I gain some weight off that stack no big deal but I’d like to stay under 228/ to avoid a big water cut!



Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkSounds like a good plan and you've made a lot of progress. Stay focused and keep us posted. Good luck!

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