Test / Tren Ratio - Your Experiences

[NbleSavage]

For those of you who have run Test & Tren (seems a very common stack), what has been your preference as per the ratio of Test to Tren and what was your rationale behind it?

It seems there are two schools of thought on this debate: those who advocate a relatively low dose of Test simply to combat the sides of the Tren (low libido for example) and those who advocate a 1:1 ratio or more Test than Tren via pointing out how potent an AAS Tren is and how a little (eg. 250 Mg weekly) will go a long way.

Have you run Test & Tren? What ratio and why?

Cheers!

- Savage

[Sweatnosejackson]

I am looking forward to responses On this as well. Some believe running the test lower than the tren as to not cause the two fighting for the receptor allowing tren to bind prior to the test. But let's see what some others who have more time with tren.

[SPEEDY]

I always run a higher dose of test than any other compound. I am a "test is the base" type Guy. A good dose of test supplemented with lower doses of other compounds. My last cycle was 1500 test/900 deca/900 eq. At the end I pulled out the eq and started 600 tren e. Got me nice and shredded!!

[NbleSavage]

I always run a higher dose of test than any other compound. I am a "test is the base" type Guy. A good dose of test supplemented with lower doses of other compounds. My last cycle was 1500 test/900 deca/900 eq. At the end I pulled out the eq and started 600 tren e. Got me nice and shredded!!

Cheers, Speedy! Thats a big cycle by my standards! Good perspective on 'Test is the Base' philosophy. Thanks Mate!

ttt for more experiences

[2nd2no1]

I have run it all kinds of ways straight tren, 1to1, 2x more test then tren.When you get older you have to up the test alot more then tren.
You get tren dick alot easeier gotta keep V/C on hand.Right now iam running 1200mg test 600mg tren hex.

[paolo123]

ive always ran test higher than tren, but this time around im going to do 1-1ratio.

[Rmewrench]

For those of you who have run Test & Tren (seems a very common stack), what has been your preference as per the ratio of Test to Tren and what was your rationale behind it?

It seems there are two schools of thought on this debate: those who advocate a relatively low dose of Test simply to combat the sides of the Tren (low libido for example) and those who advocate a 1:1 ratio or more Test than Tren via pointing out how potent an AAS Tren is and how a little (eg. 250 Mg weekly) will go a long way.

Have you run Test & Tren? What ratio and why?

Cheers!

- Savage

Actually there are some people who run a just a trt dose of test with tren or slightly lower test than tren. I cant remember the reasons why but I know there were a few. Tren alone will shut you down, so you need test no matter what. Like stated above test should be included in every cycle. Supermansdaddy had a thread about this but I think it got wiped out one time when the board was down.

[NbleSavage]

Great insights - cheers!

[psa5]

I have personally ran high test, low tren and low test, high tren at the following dosages:

1) 750mg/wk test - 350mg/wk tren
2) 160mg/wk test - 500mg/wk tren
3) 120mg/wk test - 800mg/wk tren (frontloaded 300mg the first day)

At 800mg/wk of tren in cycle 3 I was sleeping very well, saw no mood swings, would still get winded going up stairs (but no more than I would in cycle 1), would still heat up post injection, got no acne, very motivated to lift, had extremely strong libido, and was always pleasant to be around. I recommended this to users back when I first joined this forum and got nearly flamed for the thought of running any compound more than test, as "test is the base compound, so it has to ALWAYS be higher" or some nonsense like that, so I got tired of arguing for it and gave up. I guess I'll keep taking advantage of this little secret on my own :)

P.S. And yes, test, is the base compound, but in the sense that enough should be present to support male functions (libido, mood, energy, etc.) which ends up being a TRT dosage -> the amount need to bring men with a no longer functioning HPTA, back to equilibrium and be manly again

With all this being said, try different variations, no one can tell you how YOUR body will respond to them except your own body. I personally know people who do fine in each type of variation, so there is no knowing until you try. Use prop and acetate esters to make your changes quick if you like.

[NbleSavage]

I have personally ran high test, low tren and low test, high tren at the following dosages:

1) 750mg/wk test - 350mg/wk tren
2) 160mg/wk test - 500mg/wk tren
3) 120mg/wk test - 800mg/wk tren (frontloaded 300mg the first day)

At 800mg/wk of tren in cycle 3 I was sleeping very well, saw no mood swings, would still get winded going up stairs (but no more than I would in cycle 1), would still heat up post injection, got no acne, very motivated to lift, had extremely strong libido, and was always pleasant to be around. I recommended this to users back when I first joined this forum and got nearly flamed for the thought of running any compound more than test, as "test is the base compound, so it has to ALWAYS be higher" or some nonsense like that, so I got tired of arguing for it and gave up. I guess I'll keep taking advantage of this little secret on my own :)

P.S. And yes, test, is the base compound, but in the sense that enough should be present to support male functions (libido, mood, energy, etc.) which ends up being a TRT dosage -> the amount need to bring men with a no longer functioning HPTA, back to equilibrium and be manly again

Cheers, PSA5 for introducing the Test @TRT + Tren position into the discussion! Your first-hand experience is greatly appreciated. I've heard..er...read...of similar approaches and experiences as yourself, albeit with less Tren. The fact that you were able to comfortably run Tren @ 800 mg wk while not experiencing any of the expected sides (insomnia, loss if libido, extreme aggression / agitation, etc) makes a strong case for this approach for those who would prefer to minimize the amount of Test they cycle (either for desire to avoid 'Test Bloat' or simply to minimize the amt of gear they use in general).

If I may, what kind of results did you get on the low Test / high Tren cycles compared to your first high Test / low Tren cycle, how long did you run each and what was your PCT like afterwards? (eg. more or less difficult with high Test or low Test)?

Great insight, Mate!

- Savage

[BIGBOSS]

Test 250 to 500 mgs weekly and Tren 100 to 200 mgs weekly. This was what I was taught to do. I am just training for life no competitions.

[Patriot1405]

I've always used a 1:1 ratio, but next cycle will up my tren and stay at or slightly above my trt dose.

[NbleSavage]

Test 250 to 500 mgs weekly and Tren 100 to 200 mgs weekly. This was what I was taught to do. I am just training for life no competitions.

We've got this in common, Bigboss (eg. training for life). Those are similar ranges that I'm considering for my next cycle as well. How has your results been and what (if any) cycle support do you run when cycling in these ranges?

[psa5]

Apologizes for the late follow up friend, I don't make it on this site to browse threads as much as I'd like to. Cycle 2 was run for 5 weeks, and cycle 3 was run for 6 weeks. *Note: There were no issues that forced me to stop, I keep all my cycles 6-8 weeks long.

All 3 cycles were ran in a caloric deficit (with weekly carb-ups) and I saw very good body re-composition changes. The differences really were how much my strength and vascularity went up. Both saw great increases during cycle 3. Also, I feel as though I put on more lean mass while on a deficit during cycle 3.

As for PCT, the first two cycles I did a regular 4 week 40/40/20/20 of pharmaceutical tamoxifen and did the same for cycle 3, but also included pharmaceutical clomid. PCT on cycle 2 was the hardest, but I believe this was more due to jumping back on cycle sooner than I should have.

[NbleSavage]

Apologizes for the late follow up friend, I don't make it on this site to browse threads as much as I'd like to. Cycle 2 was run for 5 weeks, and cycle 3 was run for 6 weeks. *Note: There were no issues that forced me to stop, I keep all my cycles 6-8 weeks long.

All 3 cycles were ran in a caloric deficit (with weekly carb-ups) and I saw very good body re-composition changes. The differences really were how much my strength and vascularity went up. Both saw great increases during cycle 3. Also, I feel as though I put on more lean mass while on a deficit during cycle 3.

As for PCT, the first two cycles I did a regular 4 week 40/40/20/20 of pharmaceutical tamoxifen and did the same for cycle 3, but also included pharmaceutical clomid. PCT on cycle 2 was the hardest, but I believe this was more due to jumping back on cycle sooner than I should have.

Cheers, psa5! Thanks for responding and for sharing your experience.

[luger77]

Very cool thread; it really gets you thinking about how many compounds we run on the lower end while raising the test to a gram...

[NbleSavage]

Very cool thread; it really gets you thinking about how many compounds we run on the lower end while raising the test to a gram...

Exactly. I am fascinated at the idea of achieving maximum results with the least amount of gear possible - or at least finding the ideal balance of compounds to run. Experiences like those which psa5 shared are very helpful in evaluating synergistic combinations and results.

ttt for more experiences with Test and Tren.

[Redis]

Have done
1.500mg test/350mg tren ace-night sweats, aggression, acne, insomnia, no libido problems-just more endurance. Crazy strength gains across the board.
2.750mg test e/525mg tren ace-same as above. Not any worse.
3.250mg test e/250mg tren ace on a cut-just insomnia at this dose. Every now and then I feel the aggression but it's not consistent like at the higher dosages. No sweats. My bench usually drops on a cut, squat stays the same, and dead slightly improves. Bench has seen slight improvement, squat the same, but deads/racks have been blowing up at the same rate as when bulking.

Planning on 750mg test e/700mg tren next bulk but I do wanna try the low test/high tren eventually.

[NbleSavage]

Have done
1.500mg test/350mg tren ace-night sweats, aggression, acne, insomnia, no libido problems-just more endurance. Crazy strength gains across the board.
2.750mg test e/525mg tren ace-same as above. Not any worse.
3.250mg test e/250mg tren ace on a cut-just insomnia at this dose. Every now and then I feel the aggression but it's not consistent like at the higher dosages. No sweats. My bench usually drops on a cut, squat stays the same, and dead slightly improves. Bench has seen slight improvement, squat the same, but deads/racks have been blowing up at the same rate as when bulking.

Planning on 750mg test e/700mg tren next bulk but I do wanna try the low test/high tren eventually.

Cheers, Redis! Excellent examples and great details regarding your results as well as sides! With any of these three cycles, did you run any cycle support while on? Did you notice any differences in your PCT when you came off? (this assumes that you don't cruise / run TRT & as such that you do a proper PCT).

How successful were you in keeping your gains from the TnT combination? Anecdotally, I've heard people say that gains from Test / Tren are some of the most lasting / easiest to keep when cycling-off. I'd be interested in your experience here too.

Cheers!

- Savage

[SFGiants]

Actually there are some people who run a just a trt dose of test with tren or slightly lower test than tren. I cant remember the reasons why but I know there were a few. Tren alone will shut you down, so you need test no matter what. Like stated above test should be included in every cycle. Supermansdaddy had a thread about this but I think it got wiped out one time when the board was down.

Lower the Test less sides you get is why!

[aminoman74]

I love doing test at 1g and tren e at 400 or tren ace at 100 mgs e/d

[NbleSavage]

I love doing test at 1g and tren e at 400 or tren ace at 100 mgs e/d

That's a heavy cycle, Mate. How long did you run this and what kind of results & sides did you encounter?

[Redis]

Cheers, Redis! Excellent examples and great details regarding your results as well as sides! With any of these three cycles, did you run any cycle support while on? Did you notice any differences in your PCT when you came off? (this assumes that you don't cruise / run TRT & as such that you do a proper PCT).

How successful were you in keeping your gains from the TnT combination? Anecdotally, I've heard people say that gains from Test / Tren are some of the most lasting / easiest to keep when cycling-off. I'd be interested in your experience here too.

Cheers!

- Savage

I cruise on test, so no info on the pct. Ran 250uis of hcg 2-3 times a week, 25mg-50mg aromasin a day (I'm really sensitive to estrogen and it takes a high dose just to prevent gyno in my case), and had caber on hand but never used it.

[NbleSavage]

I cruise on test, so no info on the pct. Ran 250uis of hcg 2-3 times a week, 25mg-50mg aromasin a day (I'm really sensitive to estrogen and it takes a high dose just to prevent gyno in my case), and had caber on hand but never used it.

Well done, thanks Mate!

[BIGBOSS]

I run BDPHARMA T300 and Tren 200. From what i have read the tren is pretty hard on the body so i do the Tren 200 dart everyother week. I am getting huge gains and getting ripped simultaneously.

[colochine]

I run BDPHARMA T300 and Tren 200. From what i have read the tren is pretty hard on the body so i do the Tren 200 dart everyother week. I am getting huge gains and getting ripped simultaneously.

What does the test dose look like?

[NbleSavage]

I run BDPHARMA T300 and Tren 200. From what i have read the tren is pretty hard on the body so i do the Tren 200 dart everyother week. I am getting huge gains and getting ripped simultaneously.

BigBoss, is this to say that every other week you're pinning 200 Mg of Tren (Ace or E?) ? Interesting dosing protocol. I'm not expert, but the research I've done suggests that for Tren A pins should come eod or even daily, and with Tren E that 2x per week is optimal. Do you have any issues with peaks & valleys (serum levels) pinning just once every two weeks?

Your gains sound phenomenal! Your stats in your avatar are impressive - def reflects your leaning-out while getting stronger. Nice job!

[Walker]

I'm running test @ 750mg And tren e @ 600mg. Also take .5mg prami daily and 12.5mg aromasin E3D. No real bad sides, a lil insomnia, night sweats occasionally and some strange dreams. Ambien 10mg Ed knocked the insomnia. Love me some tren e! On week 5 now planning on 12 weeks.

[NbleSavage]

Strong cycle, Walker! This your first time running Tren? (am guessing 'No' based on the protocol you outlined). You making good gains?

[Walker]

Yes first time with tren e. I've ran test up to 1gram and deca up to 600 mg. I just recently up'd my tren dose. Strength gains are the best I've ever had and I'm leaning out great. My goal with this cycle was to drop below 10% BF which I think is going to be easily done. Also I'm still eating over 3000 clean calories. Tren has become my new favorite compound.

[NbleSavage]

At 3K clean calories and sub-10% BF, you'll be a shredded beast. Nice work!

By way of comparison, you think its fair to categorize this protocol as being on the 'High Test / High Tren' side of things? (relative to others running closer to a TRT dose of Test or running Tren in the 200-400 mg per week range)

[Walker]

Yes most definitely in my opinion. Others may say not so much, but I think so. I have some advanced users help me out and oversee my cycles. So much of what I do is based on their opinion too. My TRT dose is 250 mg EW. I'll come off this cycle for about 3-4 weeks then switch compounds, but test and tren at the top of my list. I really took a chance running tren e the first time as it's a long ester and if sides would have been unbearable it would have been a long two weeks waiting for it to clear my system. Tren a might have been a safer route.

My next cycle is test e, var, EQ, test prop, tbol and winni. Of course not all at the same time.

[NbleSavage]

Good show, Walker. Thanks for sharing your experience!

[whodat]

ive ran a simple test prop/tren ace cycle @ 100/75 eod and got shredded. saw my abs for the first time in a long while. and my diet was just ok. not spot on. 8 week cycle. im looking to run one in the spring and may add anavar or even some drol to kick start

[NbleSavage]

Those are some powerful results for a light cycle, whodat. Was that your first Test / Tren cycle?

[KingLouie]

The trick with all of this is understanding how your body reacts to different compounds. Ratio wise... I play it pretty close to 1:1. In regards to dosages, it's going to depend on how the Tren affects you. I'm a fan of pyramid stacks:

week 1-4
750 test
750 tren

week 5-8
1000 test
1000 tren

week 9-12
1200 test
1200 tren

Then cruise down with a nice pct.

[NbleSavage]

The trick with all of this is understanding how your body reacts to different compounds. Ratio wise... I play it pretty close to 1:1. In regards to dosages, it's going to depend on how the Tren affects you. I'm a fan of pyramid stacks:

week 1-4
750 test
750 tren

week 5-8
1000 test
1000 tren

week 9-12
1200 test
1200 tren

Then cruise down with a nice pct.

KingLouie - WOW, that's a LOT of Tren Brother. Similar questions as with the other examples: what (if any) kind of cycle support do you run during this kind of protocol, what if any sides do you encounter, what kind of results have you achieved when running it, how long do you cruise after your cycle (and what do you cruise on) and how has your success been keeping your gains after going into your cruise?

Lots of questions, apologies, but sharing this kind of experience I think is tremendously valuable to the forum if you're willing.

Cheers!

- Savage

[TheGreatWhiteTruth]

I've always done the 1:1 ratio. I don't know why really. I'm currently running a 1:1 TrenA / Prop combo. 75/75 ED. The tren sides seem to be more prevalent than the test sides even though the are being run at the same dosages ED. Good thread idea brother. It's interesting to hear what others are saying, especially those that refute the cookie cutter science of "Test > Any other AAS". I believe it should most definitely be included with most cycles, but having the Test dosage higher does not seem to be necessary.

[NbleSavage]

Cheers, GWT!

Thanks for your post! You experience pretty typical Tren sides then ('Tren-somnia', night sweats, aggression)? You running any sort of prolactin support at that level (525 Mg Test / Tren weekly) or is that still low enough for you that prami or caber isn't necessary? Any sort if AI for the Test?

How are your gains so far? You shooting for strength+, body comp changes or both? I'm intrigued by how apparently multi-purpose this stack can be.

Peace!

- Savage

[luger77]

How's the alpha feeling on tren versus test...

I Like the glances/effect I have on women while on high test, what about Tren? Same thing?

[TheGreatWhiteTruth]

Cheers, GWT!

Thanks for your post! You experience pretty typical Tren sides then ('Tren-somnia', night sweats, aggression)? You running any sort of prolactin support at that level (525 Mg Test / Tren weekly) or is that still low enough for you that prami or caber isn't necessary? Any sort if AI for the Test?

How are your gains so far? You shooting for strength+, body comp changes or both? I'm intrigued by how apparently multi-purpose this stack can be.

Peace!

- Savage

I started out at 50mg ED and the sides weren't too bad. I just had headaches every now and then and high BP with some slight aggression. The jump to 75 made a world of difference. It was literally like night and day, especially with the aggression. My wife pisses me off all of the time now. To me it's not that you are just looking to start a fight, its just that you become less tolerant to bullshit and more prone to say something about it. I have to calm myself down sometimes and remind myself that its the tren. Staying in control of your mind is key. Weak minded emo cry-babies with girl issues need not apply to the school of Tren.

Multiple deployments as a B4 have forever fucked my ability to sleep more than 4 hours straight, so the insomnia is something that I've lived with for some time. However, I find that on Tren it is harder for me to initially fall asleep. As long as I don't eat carbs right before bed, I'm G2G with the night sweats.

That being said, I think the sides that are causing me the most grief are the bloodpressure/headaches and the aggression.

I front loaded caber at .5 MG EOD for the first two weeks then hit the normal .5 mg twice weekly schedule and it's working just fine. Alongside that I take 12.5 mg Aromasin in the morning and in the evening ED. I'm gyno prone like an albino dude is prone to sunburn.

As far as the gains go, i'm up 4lbs in three weeks and I seem to be leaning out a little. My strength in the gym goes up every week like nothing else! It is insane! The interesting thing about this stack is the fact that it is so versatile and dynamic, with gains coming in a short period of time. Your gains will reflect your diet and training significantly.



How's the alpha feeling on tren versus test...

I Like the glances/effect I have on women while on high test, what about Tren? Same thing?

I can't remember who said it, but it was said that if Test makes you feel like a God, Tren makes you feel like the devil. I find that to be true.

Like on a high test cycle you walk around with your head held high because you know you are better than any other mook in the gym and you keep to yourself. Afterwards you go home and drop 3 loads in your wife/woman and call it a night. Tren is similar, but more so irritability. I seem to loose all speech inhibition these days, and I just say the first thing that comes to my mind.

[NbleSavage]

Amazing post, GreatWhiteTruth - we need more detailed experiences such as what you've presented here. Good on you for managing the sides with proper support. I'm alwys intrigued at the mental impact of running gear such as Tren and you're description here is a great 'blueprint' for guys considering a run with the Tren devil - what to expect, how to give some thought to whether or not its a good fit for you personally.

4Lbs in 3 weeks (lean mass) is HOOGE! Doesn't sound like much when you read it, but take a look at the grocery next time you're there at what 4 lbs of meat looks like. Then imagine strategically plastering it on your chest, arms, legs, etc - you get the picture.

Nice work GWT!

[TheGreatWhiteTruth]

Amazing post, GreatWhiteTruth - we need more detailed experiences such as what you've presented here. Good on you for managing the sides with proper support. I'm alwys intrigued at the mental impact of running gear such as Tren and you're description here is a great 'blueprint' for guys considering a run with the Tren devil - what to expect, how to give some thought to whether or not its a good fit for you personally.

4Lbs in 3 weeks (lean mass) is HOOGE! Doesn't sound like much when you read it, but take a look at the grocery next time you're there at what 4 lbs of meat looks like. Then imagine strategically plastering it on your chest, arms, legs, etc - you get the picture.

Nice work GWT!

Thanks brother. My diet was somewhat dirty during the first two weeks, so I'm not sure if all 4lbs of my gains are in fact LBM gains. My diet is nearly perfected right now I just have to make a trip to the supermarket. Also I'd recommend running Hawthorne berry during any Tren cycle as well.

[paolo123]

if u cant sleep try trazedone, thats what i use

[NbleSavage]

Thanks brother. My diet was somewhat dirty during the first two weeks, so I'm not sure if all 4lbs of my gains are in fact LBM gains. My diet is nearly perfected right now I just have to make a trip to the supermarket. Also I'd recommend running Hawthorne berry during any Tren cycle as well.

What's the Hawthorne berry for? Blood pressure management?

[TheGreatWhiteTruth]

What's the Hawthorne berry for? Blood pressure management?

Exactly. It works as a vasodilator. It's been proven to do so as well, so it's not just hype.


if u cant sleep try trazedone, thats what i use

Doc prescribed me some but it doesn't do shit for me but kill my drive and motivation. I will feel tired at night but my mind will be racing which prevents me from falling asleep. Then when I eventually do, I wake up 4 hours later. Never fails.

[NbleSavage]

Exactly. It works as a vasodilator. It's been proven to do so as well, so it's not just hype.


Cheers, Mate. I take Niacin for the same reason; will look into Hawthorne Berry also.

[jayrod2112]

I've only run four cycles, the same each time. 900 test/400 tren, and it worked really well for me. Granted, it's been about a decade. Testicular atrophy and some wicked back acne were the only sides I had. Really good lean gains, and I felt great throughout.