Help/Criticism Please w/pics

[DD79]

Here’s what’s up;

I’m 38 years old, 5’7” and sitting at 186.5lbs. I’m not 100% sure where my b/f is at, but calipers came in today.

I always want to be bigger, but have been trying to lean out for about the last 4 Weeks. I’m down close to 15lbs. I’d like to be bigger but with my b/f close to 10%.

Supps/gear: I have ran all sorts of supps in the past. I have ran test, deca, and dbol, but not a real cycle in over 12 years. I’m currently on trt and running test cyp at 200mg/wk (prescribed 400mg/wk, but I’m hoarding that shit.) also running adex and hcg weekly. I’m adding Recompadrol starting today. I also take BCAA’s and use a protein supplement.

Diet: I’ve always had a fast metabolism, not so much anymore. For the past 4 weeks I’ve been dieting down to assist in burning off the fat. Low carb of course. And low calorie. Been getting anywhere between 1500 - 2000 calories a day. Averaging 200g protein, 75g carbs, and 100g fats. Carbs are coming from protein pancakes and white rice. Proteins are eggs, chicken, beef and shakes.

Training: I train 4-5 days a week depending upon work. I have been focusing on high volume lifting with a mixture of steady state and HIIT cardio.

I’ve definitely lost some strength and size over the past 4 Weeks. The size is most noticeable in my mid section and arms, but not as much in my midsection as I’d prefer and more in the arms than I'd prefer! I'm for sure a little flatter too.

I’m open to tips on diet/training changes. Suggestions on gear/supps also.

Thanks!

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[JohnDoe]

I’ll let the guys who compete put in their two cents.

[Couchlockd]

Awesome trt doctor got you running a blast.

That's pretty cool unusual, what do your bloods show at 400mg per?

[Spyderwebb]

Here’s what’s up;

I’m 38 years old, 5’7� and sitting at 186.5lbs. I’m not 100% sure where my b/f is at, but calipers came in today.

I always want to be bigger, but have been trying to lean out for about the last 4 Weeks. I’m down close to 15lbs. I’d like to be bigger but with my b/f close to 10%.

Supps/gear: I have ran all sorts of supps in the past. I have ran test, deca, and dbol, but not a real cycle in over 12 years. I’m currently on trt and running test cyp at 200mg/wk (prescribed 400mg/wk, but I’m hoarding that shit.) also running adex and hcg weekly. I’m adding Recompadrol starting today. I also take BCAA’s and use a protein supplement.

Diet: I’ve always had a fast metabolism, not so much anymore. For the past 4 weeks I’ve been dieting down to assist in burning off the fat. Low carb of course. And low calorie. Been getting anywhere between 1500 - 2000 calories a day. Averaging 200g protein, 75g carbs, and 100g fats. Carbs are coming from protein pancakes and white rice. Proteins are eggs, chicken, beef and shakes.

Training: I train 4-5 days a week depending upon work. I have been focusing on high volume lifting with a mixture of steady state and HIIT cardio.

I’ve definitely lost some strength and size over the past 4 Weeks. The size is most noticeable in my mid section and arms, but not as much in my midsection as I’d prefer and more in the arms than I'd prefer! I'm for sure a little flatter too.

I’m open to tips on diet/training changes. Suggestions on gear/supps also.

Thanks!

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180124/8104068498ae154eed3076fcb418fd78.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180124/1ef153efcd4e1ace5cfa24239419af84.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180124/9accbbf5ebeefc5bc47694af0f41ee01.jpg


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My suggestion is that u run primo at 600 a week for 20 weeks along with your test

So it should look something like this

Week 1-20 Test c 400 mg
Week 1-20 primo e. 600mg
Week 12-20 tren ace 300mg
Weeks 14-20 mast p. 400mg

Primo did wonders for me but a lot of ppl don't run it long enough to see what it really does... it's very slow acting but def will change your physique and u keep most of what u see from it



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[bigjay23]

Keep going at what your doing man your not losing muscle your losing stored glycogen and water that’s why your losing strength and size
I’m in the same boat as you right now I know it messes with your head but this is a necessary step to take off the spill over from a bulk or just getting fat
The strength and size will come back for sure because of insulin sensitivity and muscle memory once you start increasing all 3 of your macros again brother
The diet looks great for holding onto muscle regarding high protein brother plus your small dose of drugs will help maintain
My only suggestion would be if your already low in carbs to cut them completely (30g or below a day)and up your fats so your body gets used to burning your own body fat for fuel and add a small dose of creatine
Just remember to keep chuggin your water

Good luck


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[joko123]

Youbeeally shouldn’t be losing that much strength you have a lot of stored energy aka fat

1500-2k calories at this point in time seems like a pretty dramatic cut from where you started


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[DD79]

Calipers came in today. I know I should measure in the morning prior to lifting or eating, but I am impatient and couldn't wait until tomorrow. I also know they are going to take some work to actually use correctly. However, just off of today's measurement, I'm looking at around 18% body fat. I still feel as though that is a bit low. I was guessing I'd be around 20 to 22 right now.

[DD79]

Awesome trt doctor got you running a blast.

That's pretty cool unusual, what do your bloods show at 400mg per?

For real tho! She has had me on 200mg/wk for the past couple of years. Last time I went back, she just flat asked if I wanted more. I was like, hell yeah, I'll take as much as you'll give me!

As far as blood work goes, I am not sure. Haven't had it checked while at 400 wk. Last labs were at 200 a week and taken about 2 days after an injection. I cant remember all my numbers. I'll post them up next time I go though.

[DD79]

My suggestion is that u run primo at 600 a week for 20 weeks along with your test

So it should look something like this

Week 1-20 Test c 400 mg
Week 1-20 primo e. 600mg
Week 12-20 tren ace 300mg
Weeks 14-20 mast p. 400mg

Primo did wonders for me but a lot of ppl don't run it long enough to see what it really does... it's very slow acting but def will change your physique and u keep most of what u see from it



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Thats a nice looking little stack Spyderwebb! Thanks for the info, I just may give it a go when the dieting stalls.

[DD79]

Keep going at what your doing man your not losing muscle your losing stored glycogen and water that’s why your losing strength and size
I’m in the same boat as you right now I know it messes with your head but this is a necessary step to take off the spill over from a bulk or just getting fat
The strength and size will come back for sure because of insulin sensitivity and muscle memory once you start increasing all 3 of your macros again brother
The diet looks great for holding onto muscle regarding high protein brother plus your small dose of drugs will help maintain
My only suggestion would be if your already low in carbs to cut them completely (30g or below a day)and up your fats so your body gets used to burning your own body fat for fuel and add a small dose of creatine
Just remember to keep chuggin your water

Good luck


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Thanks Bigjay! I think your right, the next step is to cut those carbs down below 30.

I'll be on that right away!

[Spyderwebb]

Here’s what’s up;

I’m 38 years old, 5’7� and sitting at 186.5lbs. I’m not 100% sure where my b/f is at, but calipers came in today.

I always want to be bigger, but have been trying to lean out for about the last 4 Weeks. I’m down close to 15lbs. I’d like to be bigger but with my b/f close to 10%.

Supps/gear: I have ran all sorts of supps in the past. I have ran test, deca, and dbol, but not a real cycle in over 12 years. I’m currently on trt and running test cyp at 200mg/wk (prescribed 400mg/wk, but I’m hoarding that shit.) also running adex and hcg weekly. I’m adding Recompadrol starting today. I also take BCAA’s and use a protein supplement.

Diet: I’ve always had a fast metabolism, not so much anymore. For the past 4 weeks I’ve been dieting down to assist in burning off the fat. Low carb of course. And low calorie. Been getting anywhere between 1500 - 2000 calories a day. Averaging 200g protein, 75g carbs, and 100g fats. Carbs are coming from protein pancakes and white rice. Proteins are eggs, chicken, beef and shakes.

Training: I train 4-5 days a week depending upon work. I have been focusing on high volume lifting with a mixture of steady state and HIIT cardio.

I’ve definitely lost some strength and size over the past 4 Weeks. The size is most noticeable in my mid section and arms, but not as much in my midsection as I’d prefer and more in the arms than I'd prefer! I'm for sure a little flatter too.

I’m open to tips on diet/training changes. Suggestions on gear/supps also.

Thanks!

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180124/8104068498ae154eed3076fcb418fd78.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180124/1ef153efcd4e1ace5cfa24239419af84.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180124/9accbbf5ebeefc5bc47694af0f41ee01.jpg


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That's me before primo and I can tell u it changed my physique... my diet was shit when I went into it but as I saw results that motivated me and believe me the primo helps a great deal to lean out... everything came into place after about 12 weeks



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[DD79]

Looking pretty damn solid right there bro!

[Spyderwebb]

Looking pretty damn solid right there bro!

Primo really turned it around for me... most people that run primo either don't have legit stuff or don't run it long enough to see any results from it... I personally love it... hefty price tag on legit primo tho... def worth it tho


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[DD79]

Primo really turned it around for me... most people that run primo either don't have legit stuff or don't run it long enough to see any results from it... I personally love it... hefty price tag on legit primo tho... def worth it tho


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Nice! I am certain with our reputable sources here at BOP, getting legit primo shouldn't be a problem.

[Radman69]

Im with Joko on this one... shouldnt be losing strength at this point in progress unless u are over training or just not giving yourself enough carbs... u can try to drop the fats and raise the carbs some... also, its important to take in account your N.E.A.T and add in appropriate cardio sessions to increase the deficit... whats your cardio regime look like? You still have alot of wiggle room without having to add any extra supps jist yet... my .02... good luck buddy!

[Couchlockd]

Im with Joko on this one... shouldnt be losing strength at this point in progress unless u are over training or just not giving yourself enough carbs... u can try to drop the fats and raise the carbs some... also, its important to take in account your N.E.A.T and add in appropriate cardio sessions to increase the deficit... whats your cardio regime look like? You still have alot of wiggle room without having to add any extra supps jist yet... my .02... good luck buddy!N.E.A.T.?

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[DD79]

N.E.A.T.?

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Non-exercise activity thermogenesis (NEAT) is the energy expended for everything we do that is not sleeping, eating or sports-like exercise. It ranges from the energy expended walking to work, typing, performing yard work, undertaking agricultural tasks and fidgeting. Even trivial physical activities increase metabolic rate substantially and it is the cumulative impact of a multitude of exothermic actions that culminate in an individual's daily NEAT.

I had to look it up. lol

[Couchlockd]

Non-exercise activity thermogenesis (NEAT) is the energy expended for everything we do that is not sleeping, eating or sports-like exercise. It ranges from the energy expended walking to work, typing, performing yard work, undertaking agricultural tasks and fidgeting. Even trivial physical activities increase metabolic rate substantially and it is the cumulative impact of a multitude of exothermic actions that culminate in an individual's daily NEAT.

I had to look it up. lolDamnhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180125/d4e6bb6b7ba1e8ee87dc7f63e83b2403.jpg

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[DD79]

Im with Joko on this one... shouldnt be losing strength at this point in progress unless u are over training or just not giving yourself enough carbs... u can try to drop the fats and raise the carbs some... also, its important to take in account your N.E.A.T and add in appropriate cardio sessions to increase the deficit... whats your cardio regime look like? You still have alot of wiggle room without having to add any extra supps jist yet... my .02... good luck buddy!

Cardio is MISS which consists of 20 min brisk walk on treadmill at 15 degree incline and HIIT which is 10 rounds of walk/sprint at about 30 sec/30 sec. I rotate every other day on weekdays.

Training day: Today was shoulders
Seated DB lateral raises
6 set X 20/18/16/14/12/10 reps
Cable lateral raises
6 set X 20/18/16/14/12/10 reps
DB front raises
6 set X 20/18/16/14/12/10 reps
Smith Machine Overhead Press
6 set X 20/18/16/14/12/10 reps
Rear Cable fly's
6 set X 20/18/16/14/12/10 reps
Seated rear db fly
4 set X 20 reps

I had planned this to be a high volume day.

[Spyderwebb]

Cardio is MISS which consists of 20 min brisk walk on treadmill at 15 degree incline and HIIT which is 10 rounds of walk/sprint at about 30 sec/30 sec. I rotate every other day on weekdays.

Training day: Today was shoulders
Seated DB lateral raises
6 set X 20/18/16/14/12/10 reps
Cable lateral raises
6 set X 20/18/16/14/12/10 reps
DB front raises
6 set X 20/18/16/14/12/10 reps
Smith Machine Overhead Press
6 set X 20/18/16/14/12/10 reps
Rear Cable fly's
6 set X 20/18/16/14/12/10 reps
Seated rear db fly
4 set X 20 reps

I had planned this to be a high volume day.

I incorporate my cardio into my lifting... i haven't done actual cardio in years... what I do is work out 2x a day 30 min each time non stop going form set to set without taking any brakes... the only time I take a brake is to either rack weights or move from machine to machine...


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[PJ034]

IMO you're playing checkers instead of chess. That no card diet shit is setting you up for long term failure. It's something us competitors did years ago when we didn't know any better. Some still do if they are a few weeks out and not on target for conditioning. I cut on 3500 calories with almost no cardio. I definitely wouldn't be doing HIIT cardio on 2000 calories a day. You're going catabolic and that's why you're losing strength and size. Your burning muscle due to your low calorie diet.

Once you body adjusts to no carbs the bounce back once you introduce carbs again you're not going to like at all! You will need triple the amount of gear to even give your muscles a chance on that low of calories. The people you find going keto do this to lose the last few percentages of bf. They are starting where you want to end. My guess by looking at your pics you're closer to 25% bf. If I need to cut calories when cutting I will drop protein before I drop carbs.

But if you're determined to keep your current calories and macros (your fat is way too low by the way) switch to fasted cardio in the mornings. Keep your heart rate 145-150 ish. I do 30-45 minutes of inclined walking on the treadmill. Then eat right after. There is more than one way to lean out and I know people who make the no carb thing work. But imo it's old school and guys who do it this way look like they are totally miserable, like they are going to pass out trying to finish workouts, come into to a show too flat, or find they spilled over trying to carb load the night before, and not to mention it's not healthy at all. It's also tougher on the liver which is already stressed from AAS use.

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[joko123]

IMO you're playing checkers instead of chess. That no card diet shit is setting you up for long term failure. It's something us competitors did years ago when we didn't know any better. Some still do if they are a few weeks out and not on target for conditioning. I cut on 3500 calories with almost no cardio. I definitely wouldn't be doing HIIT cardio on 2000 calories a day. You're going catabolic and that's why you're losing strength and size. Your burning muscle due to your low calorie diet.

Once you body adjusts to no carbs the bounce back once you introduce carbs again you're not going to like at all! You will need triple the amount of gear to even give your muscles a chance on that low of calories. The people you find going keto do this to lose the last few percentages of bf. They are starting where you want to end. My guess by looking at your pics you're closer to 25% bf. If I need to cut calories when cutting I will drop protein before I drop carbs.

But if you're determined to keep your current calories and macros (your fat is way too low by the way) switch to fasted cardio in the mornings. Keep your heart rate 145-150 ish. I do 30-45 minutes of inclined walking on the treadmill. Then eat right after. There is more than one way to lean out and I know people who make the no carb thing work. But imo it's old school and guys who do it this way look like they are totally miserable, like they are going to pass out trying to finish workouts, come into to a show too flat, or find they spilled over trying to carb load the night before, and not to mention it's not healthy at all. It's also tougher on the liver which is already stressed from AAS use.

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Preach PJ !

Yeah I let the diet thing slide, anyway whenever I ask someone how they eat and they say it’s “clean” or it’s “good” I call bs.

Women are notorious for this you ask them how they eat they say all they eat is fruits , oatmeal and sweet pototos and they don’t understand why they’re gaining weight. Those are healthy foods

Any way you needs a plan of attack meal 1
Is this , I eat meal 2 at this time , I eat this.

Your cardio MISS? I’m assuming that’s medium intensity ? If it is I pick an extreme either slow and steady or hit and quit it cardio the inbetween is what eats at muscle.

There’s many different diet approaches and none of them are wrong but you are for sure under eating.


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[born]

Keep going at what your doing man your not losing muscle your losing stored glycogen and water that’s why your losing strength and size
I’m in the same boat as you right now I know it messes with your head but this is a necessary step to take off the spill over from a bulk or just getting fat
The strength and size will come back for sure because of insulin sensitivity and muscle memory once you start increasing all 3 of your macros again brother
The diet looks great for holding onto muscle regarding high protein brother plus your small dose of drugs will help maintain
My only suggestion would be if your already low in carbs to cut them completely (30g or below a day)and up your fats so your body gets used to burning your own body fat for fuel and add a small dose of creatine
Just remember to keep chuggin your water

Good luck


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^^^ I could not agree more about the glycogen. I think the carbs are necessary. I would keep them high unless priming just before another blast.

[Radman69]

IMO you're playing checkers instead of chess. That no card diet shit is setting you up for long term failure. It's something us competitors did years ago when we didn't know any better. Some still do if they are a few weeks out and not on target for conditioning. I cut on 3500 calories with almost no cardio. I definitely wouldn't be doing HIIT cardio on 2000 calories a day. You're going catabolic and that's why you're losing strength and size. Your burning muscle due to your low calorie diet.

Once you body adjusts to no carbs the bounce back once you introduce carbs again you're not going to like at all! You will need triple the amount of gear to even give your muscles a chance on that low of calories. The people you find going keto do this to lose the last few percentages of bf. They are starting where you want to end. My guess by looking at your pics you're closer to 25% bf. If I need to cut calories when cutting I will drop protein before I drop carbs.

But if you're determined to keep your current calories and macros (your fat is way too low by the way) switch to fasted cardio in the mornings. Keep your heart rate 145-150 ish. I do 30-45 minutes of inclined walking on the treadmill. Then eat right after. There is more than one way to lean out and I know people who make the no carb thing work. But imo it's old school and guys who do it this way look like they are totally miserable, like they are going to pass out trying to finish workouts, come into to a show too flat, or find they spilled over trying to carb load the night before, and not to mention it's not healthy at all. It's also tougher on the liver which is already stressed from AAS use.

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well said... only time i will drop the carbs are right near the end.. and then i still keep them peri workout.... always fasted Low intensity cardio for me.. slowly increasing the time as needed... dropping calories are a last resort.. also... i dont do well with large amounts of fat intake... i just dont anymore...

[thudgens96]

PJ034 is right on the money in my opinion. Would definitely get the diet hashed out before worrying about any cycle plans. Gear helps a diet with no diet your just taking gear.

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[DD79]

Preach PJ !

Your cardio MISS? I’m assuming that’s medium intensity ? If it is I pick an extreme either slow and steady or hit and quit it cardio the inbetween is what eats at muscle.

There’s many different diet approaches and none of them are wrong but you are for sure under eating.


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Joko, you guessed it bro! MISS = Medium Intensity Steady State. Which for my old fat ass is a fast paced walked at a 15 degree incline for 20 min.

I’m going to have to do more research on where my macros should be.

Thanks bro!


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[DD79]

But if you're determined to keep your current calories and macros (your fat is way too low by the way) switch to fasted cardio in the mornings. Keep your heart rate 145-150 ish. I do 30-45 minutes of inclined walking on the treadmill. Then eat right after. There is more than one way to lean out and I know people who make the no carb thing work. But imo it's old school and guys who do it this way look like they are totally miserable, like they are going to pass out trying to finish workouts, come into to a show too flat, or find they spilled over trying to carb load the night before, and not to mention it's not healthy at all. It's also tougher on the liver which is already stressed from AAS use.

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PJ, thanks for the reply bro!

I’m not determined to keep anything the same and expect a better result. That’s sounds like bodybuilding insanity to me. Lol.

I currently do my cardio fasted. One day HIIT (which apparently I should cut out), the next day steady state brisk walk at 15% incline. I also eat as soon as I leave the gym. Thats my biggest meal and most carbs of the day. Around 60gm protein, 25gm carbs, and 20gm fats. Same thing every day.

Thanks for the info Bro!


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[PJ034]

PJ, thanks for the reply bro!

I’m not determined to keep anything the same and expect a better result. That’s sounds like bodybuilding insanity to me. Lol.

I currently do my cardio fasted. One day HIIT (which apparently I should cut out), the next day steady state brisk walk at 15% incline. I also eat as soon as I leave the gym. Thats my biggest meal and most carbs of the day. Around 60gm protein, 25gm carbs, and 20gm fats. Same thing every day.

Thanks for the info Bro!


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkThis is an older pic after coming back from an injury and not training for almost 2 years. I decided to just cut and try the new physique class at the time. I did this in actually about 7 weeks. I was 220 in the pic on the left and 195 in the pic on the right. I started at about 3500 calories and ended at about 2500. This was my starting macros in these pics. 220p/250c/70f

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[Spyderwebb]

This is an older pic after coming back from an injury and not training for almost 2 years. I decided to just cut and try the new physique class at the time. I did this in actually about 7 weeks. I was 220 in the pic on the left and 195 in the pic on the right. I started at about 3500 calories and ended at about 2500. This was my starting macros in these pics. 220p/250c/70f

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Awesome job bud


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[DD79]

Damn! Nice work bro.

[bigjay23]

The way ones body responds to cutting carbs or keeping carbs high during a cut is down to ones body type, genetics, and drugs your on
For me the bigger body type cutting carbs works for losing body fat that’s why I gave you the advice I gave you
My advice would be try both


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[PJ034]

Damn! Nice work bro.Thanks DD, you're starting is where most would like to end muscle wise. You have good muscle development especially in your back. Keep us posted on the progress. Whatever route you go do your research and make a plan. Then stick to the plan to the end. If you don't do this whether you end where you want to be or not you won't have any information to make a better plan next time. A lot of people just wing it by not tracking their food, or not prepping and getting their meals in, they think because they are "eating clean" they will get to the finish line. Another problem I see is people not trusting the process. They don't like the results after say 3-4 weeks and start making drastic adjustments or changes. I'm sure I'm just reiterating the obvious to you because you wouldn't be here asking questions if knew you were doing it right.

The only difference between my bulk and my shred is my diet. I don't workout any different. I only do cardio for 15 minutes at medium intensity 3 times a week after workouts. I only do fasted cardio when I'm a few weeks out for a show and just want to tighten everything up, or if I need to lose some fat before a vacation... lol! I used to be a no carb guy when cutting. I grew up on the Jersey Shore and would get shredded for the summer. I'm 45 almost 46 now and just don't like being big all the time anymore. I've been 260lbs single digit bf before. I had a bad motorcycle wreck about 10 years ago and haven't been that big since.

I hired a professional trainer for a show about 6 years ago. He is a 30 year veteran bodybuilder, a nutrition professor at a local well known university, and runs a hormone therapy clinic. I paid him a lot of money just to tell me what to eat. He never stepped foot in a gym with me or wanted to chamge any of my weight training. Trusting his process was one of the hardest things I ever did. His meal plans went completely against everything I ever did before. I was looking at this plan and thinking in my head there is no fckn way I can eat that many carbs heading into a show... wow was I fckn wrong! Not to mention I also felt the best I ever did the week leading up to the comp.

The key to being able to eat carbs and lean out is what carbs you eat. This is the part where everyone is different. I have a buddy who will eat regular potatoes and white rice leading into the show which is an absolute no go for me. Sweet potatoes and red skin potatoes only for me and long grain brown rice are my usual carbs. I'll do whole wheat noodles until about 4 weeks out. Morning carbs are steel cut oats that I make 5 days worth at a time and cream of brown rice when I don't have any oats ready to eat. Good luck!

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