At a loss

[kaneman]

So I have a client who is a pretty experienced powerlifters that I help out with cause he’s a noob to aas. I put him on a first timer cycle of 600mg test E a week. Ya I know a little high for first timer but this guy is a vet, trains hard as fuck and has his dietary degree so he’s good to go as far as eating right. He’s now like 8 weeks In and has shit to show for gains!! Says he just feels more tired if anything. About 4 weeks in he was complaining of not feeling anything so I switched his gear up to another very well known sponsors and added in 50mg dbol. I thought there’s no way he won’t grow like a MF off that!! It’s now another 4 weeks in and he’s pretty much at the same place as where he started. He’s gained 5-7 lbs but has no notice of strength gains or anything. Now I’m on the same sponsors gear at a cruise dose (just started my cycle last week) and I’m already seeing good notice of progress!! I’m at a loss of what it could be. He’s pulling bloods his week so we’ll see what hey say but I’m just soo confused cause I’ve been on the same shit and felt great!! Anyone have any ideas what could be hindering his gains!! He’s said before we started that he metabolizes shit super fast and it takes ungodly amount of booze to get him drunk and his meds always stop working after like a week. Is this even possible with aas???


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[350zsidewayzz]

So I have a client who is a pretty experienced powerlifters that I help out with cause he’s a noob to aas. I put him on a first timer cycle of 600mg test E a week. Ya I know a little high for first timer but this guy is a vet, trains hard as fuck and has his dietary degree so he’s good to go as far as eating right. He’s now like 8 weeks In and has shit to show for gains!! Says he just feels more tired if anything. About 4 weeks in he was complaining of not feeling anything so I switched his gear up to another very well known sponsors and added in 50mg dbol. I thought there’s no way he won’t grow like a MF off that!! It’s now another 4 weeks in and he’s pretty much at the same place as where he started. He’s gained 5-7 lbs but has no notice of strength gains or anything. Now I’m on the same sponsors gear at a cruise dose (just started my cycle last week) and I’m already seeing good notice of progress!! I’m at a loss of what it could be. He’s pulling bloods his week so we’ll see what hey say but I’m just soo confused cause I’ve been on the same shit and felt great!! Anyone have any ideas what could be hindering his gains!! He’s said before we started that he metabolizes shit super fast and it takes ungodly amount of booze to get him drunk and his meds always stop working after like a week. Is this even possible with aas???


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Sounds like me in terms of the metabolism thing


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[bigt87]

So I have a client who is a pretty experienced powerlifters that I help out with cause he’s a noob to aas. I put him on a first timer cycle of 600mg test E a week. Ya I know a little high for first timer but this guy is a vet, trains hard as fuck and has his dietary degree so he’s good to go as far as eating right. He’s now like 8 weeks In and has shit to show for gains!! Says he just feels more tired if anything. About 4 weeks in he was complaining of not feeling anything so I switched his gear up to another very well known sponsors and added in 50mg dbol. I thought there’s no way he won’t grow like a MF off that!! It’s now another 4 weeks in and he’s pretty much at the same place as where he started. He’s gained 5-7 lbs but has no notice of strength gains or anything. Now I’m on the same sponsors gear at a cruise dose (just started my cycle last week) and I’m already seeing good notice of progress!! I’m at a loss of what it could be. He’s pulling bloods his week so we’ll see what hey say but I’m just soo confused cause I’ve been on the same shit and felt great!! Anyone have any ideas what could be hindering his gains!! He’s said before we started that he metabolizes shit super fast and it takes ungodly amount of booze to get him drunk and his meds always stop working after like a week. Is this even possible with aas???


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkYes. Some people are hyper responders and can use very little......when they use high amounts it literally makes them sick and toxic. Other people are on the opposite end of the spectrum. He's either 1. Using some bunk gear, which you have already counted that out because you said it's working on you, or 2. 600 mg isn't doing jack shit for him. I would check his bloods. Play with different compounds and esters. I remember ppl telling me about the magic of my first cycle and how great it would be and I didn't see much of anything. Once my receptors really got saturated and I was into it a few months is when the gains started coming for me. Good luck. I know u probably feel like an asshole to ur friend right now ur like well shit. Lol. U will figure it out

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[kaneman]

Sounds like me in terms of the metabolism thing


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Really!?!? Even at 600mg and dbol!! I gained 30 lbs my first cycle off 500mg test for 12 weeks lol



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[350zsidewayzz]

Really!?!? Even at 600mg and dbol!! I gained 30 lbs my first cycle off 500mg test for 12 weeks lol



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Yeah maybe I take that back I gained 20 off of dmz only


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[kaneman]

Yes. Some people are hyper responders and can use very little......when they use high amounts it literally makes them sick and toxic. Other people are on the opposite end of the spectrum. He's either 1. Using some bunk gear, which you have already counted that out because you said it's working on you, or 2. 600 mg isn't doing jack shit for him. I would check his bloods. Play with different compounds and esters. I remember ppl telling me about the magic of my first cycle and how great it would be and I didn't see much of anything. Once my receptors really got saturated and I was into it a few months is when the gains started coming for me. Good luck. I know u probably feel like an asshole to ur friend right now ur like well shit. Lol. U will figure it out

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Thanks for the post. I’ll wait and see about bloods and go from there I guess. If he’s not a good responder will his bloods show normal levels or will his levels still be raised and he just doesn’t respond well to it?? Cause it would be hard to tell if bunk gear if the first is true and he’s just a shitty responder. Sorry if I made that confusing lol


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[bigt87]

Thanks for the post. I’ll wait and see about bloods and go from there I guess. If he’s not a good responder will his bloods show normal levels or will his levels still be raised and he just doesn’t respond well to it?? Cause it would be hard to tell if bunk gear if the first is true and he’s just a shitty responder. Sorry if I made that confusing lol


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkBloods will still show elevated levels. Just like someone who has a huge tolerance to alcohol will still fail a breathalyzer even if they're not drunk.

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[swolesteelers]

Maybe taking to much a i s also give him androl 100mg a day that should light his ass on fire tren base too lol that should work

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[kaneman]

Bloods will still show elevated levels. Just like someone who has a huge tolerance to alcohol will still fail a breathalyzer even if they're not drunk.

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Ok that’s what I figured. ThAnks!!


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[bigt87]

My prediction, total test will be very high, and free test will be low af.

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[babybull34]

KM, he may be a hypo-responder and truly require grams to begin to grow. It does happen.

Also, he may not be a huge responder to test but you put him on Nor's and he gets massive. The key is unlocking his physiology. If he wants mass, put him on some Deca. If he wants strength and a little mass, NPP. See how the Nor's treat him but I would not suggest Tren for him yet. IMHO.

[bigt87]

KM, he may be a hypo-responder and truly require grams to begin to grow. It does happen.

Also, he may not be a huge responder to test but you put him on Nor's and he gets massive. The key is unlocking his physiology. If he wants mass, put him on some Deca. If he wants strength and a little mass, NPP. See how the Nor's treat him but I would not suggest Tren for him yet. IMHO.This^

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[itsBoogie]

Yes. Some people are hyper responders and can use very little......when they use high amounts it literally makes them sick and toxic. Other people are on the opposite end of the spectrum. He's either 1. Using some bunk gear, which you have already counted that out because you said it's working on you, or 2. 600 mg isn't doing jack shit for him. I would check his bloods. Play with different compounds and esters. I remember ppl telling me about the magic of my first cycle and how great it would be and I didn't see much of anything. Once my receptors really got saturated and I was into it a few months is when the gains started coming for me. Good luck. I know u probably feel like an asshole to ur friend right now ur like well shit. Lol. U will figure it out

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using TapatalkMy 1st go was with test 400 at 1200 per week and by week 8 I was like this is alot of sticking for what? And then outta nowhere i was ok so its working now!!

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[kaneman]

My prediction, total test will be very high, and free test will be low af.

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Proviron or mast then??


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[bigt87]

Proviron or mast then??


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkCouldn't hurt

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[bulk_cut]

Everyone is WAYYYYYY over thinking this and missing the obvious! He is lethargic because his E2 is high and needs to start taking Aromasin ASAP. That will help lower his estrogen which will increase his energy and also help him free up some bound test making it usable. Next Problem is he is not eating enough food! That's right fellas - that's the magic answer right there. He may be a nutritionist or what ever you said he was but eating to grow on cycle is WAYYYYY different than natural. I would suspect he's eating pretty much the same as before. Remember - steroids don't make you grow, food does! I would also venture to guess that he probably needs to adjust his macros as well. Adding more gear right now will only be wasting the gear and make him more depressed and have negative feeling about them and think he's the one a trillion person who they just don't work on!

[tcinbc66]

Everyone is WAYYYYYY over thinking this and missing the obvious! He is lethargic because his E2 is high and needs to start taking Aromasin ASAP. That will help lower his estrogen which will increase his energy and also help him free up some bound test making it usable. Next Problem is he is not eating enough food! That's right fellas - that's the magic answer right there. He may be a nutritionist or what ever you said he was but eating to grow on cycle is WAYYYYY different than natural. I would suspect he's eating pretty much the same as before. Remember - steroids don't make you grow, food does! I would also venture to guess that he probably needs to adjust his macros as well.

So I’ve had that lethargic energy and am on aromiasin 25mg 2/3 times a week. Would you up it? Obviously blood draw would help but what’s “too much” aromiasin


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[kaneman]

Everyone is WAYYYYYY over thinking this and missing the obvious! He is lethargic because his E2 is high and needs to start taking Aromasin ASAP. That will help lower his estrogen which will increase his energy and also help him free up some bound test making it usable. Next Problem is he is not eating enough food! That's right fellas - that's the magic answer right there. He may be a nutritionist or what ever you said he was but eating to grow on cycle is WAYYYYY different than natural. I would suspect he's eating pretty much the same as before. Remember - steroids don't make you grow, food does! I would also venture to guess that he probably needs to adjust his macros as well.

I have him on 12.5mg asin eod and believe me bro he’s eating like a fucking horse. He’s 225lbs and taking in 6k in calories a day and yes he’s actually tracking it


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[babybull34]

Proviron or mast then??


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Proviron and Masteron are DHT's, androgens, which can help with increasing free test, sex drive, and strength but ill do little for mass. Additionally, if the problem is that he is not responding to test, these will do very little to fix the issue.

I would suggest stack a different class AAS with the Test you already have him on, possibly even reducing the test based upon blood work.

Try a Nor, NPP or Deca, or a DHB, EQ or Primo, and see how he responds. I would starting with NPP, because it is a short-ester and can be pulled easily, makes sense. But honestly, I have never met a person who did not grow with Deca. Even the hardest responding, naturally rail-skinny guys I know grow on Deca, brother. With the right diet and training, which you say he has, he WILL grow.

[bulk_cut]

So I’ve had that lethargic energy and am on aromiasin 25mg 2/3 times a week. Would you up it? Obviously blood draw would help but what’s “too much” aromiasin


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In your case it's different, the lethargic feeling might be from to low E2. Depending on what compounds you're taking, how sensitive you are to estrogen sides and what other symptoms you're having would lead to a better assumption if you need more or less. Very Lathargic with no appetite, cranky/more irritable than normal, emotional, can get an erection but goes soft before climax - probably to high.

[babybull34]

Everyone is WAYYYYYY over thinking this and missing the obvious! He is lethargic because his E2 is high and needs to start taking Aromasin ASAP. That will help lower his estrogen which will increase his energy and also help him free up some bound test making it usable. Next Problem is he is not eating enough food! That's right fellas - that's the magic answer right there. He may be a nutritionist or what ever you said he was but eating to grow on cycle is WAYYYYY different than natural. I would suspect he's eating pretty much the same as before. Remember - steroids don't make you grow, food does! I would also venture to guess that he probably needs to adjust his macros as well. Adding more gear right now will only be wasting the gear and make him more depressed and have negative feeling about them and think he's the one a trillion person who they just don't work on!

Increased Estrogen can help with putting on mass though. I am not saying I completely disagree with this, but I would get it confirmed with bloodwork before upping his AI's. He's taking a decent amount of Aromasin for 600mgs of Test. If blood work confirms the estro is too high then by all means up the Aromasin, but wiping out your estrogen can be just as bad if not worse for gains. He certainly could be estro-sensitive and converting Test to E2 at a very high rate.

I would confirm with bloods and consider other compounds, just talking for my experiences though.

[tcinbc66]

In your case it's different, the lethargic feeling might be from to low E2. Depending on what compounds you're taking, how sensitive you are to estrogen sides and what other symptoms you're having would lead to a better assumption if you need more or less. Very Lathargic with no appetite, cranky/more irritable than normal, emotional, can get an erection but goes soft before climax - probably to high.

Appreciate the insight from both sides, I have a good idea which side of the fence I am on with that!


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[lokthai]

Really!?!? Even at 600mg and dbol!! I gained 30 lbs my first cycle off 500mg test for 12 weeks lol



Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkI turned into a legend with half those doses. [emoji2]

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[RedWood1]

I don't see how he's not at least feeling anything from the Dbol.

[babybull34]

DBol is still test based. Just food for thought.

[RedWood1]

DBol is still test based. Just food for thought.Yeah didn't even think about that. Thanks brother. I'd put him on Tren A if he doesn't feel anything off that he's not considered alive.

[babybull34]

Yeah didn't even think about that. Thanks brother. I'd put him on Tren A if he doesn't feel anything off that he's not considered alive.

lol. Tren may be a bit much if he is new to AAS.

[joko123]

Maybe he needs a break from the gym and has a tired body drugs aren’t always the solution


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[kaneman]

Depending on bloods I think a small dose of npp to see how he reacts might not be a bad idea. Like said before it’s short ester so can dump fast if needed. Anxious to see what bloods say


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[RedWood1]

lol. Tren may be a bit much if he is new to AAS.My first time was 400mg Test P and 400mg Tren A a week. I fell in love from than on out. Was saying Tren due to it's sinister ways lol. If Kaneman is helping he should be fine.
Also Joko made a valid Statement in his post. Guy's body could just be wore and tore down.

[RedWood1]

Maybe he needs a break from the gym and has a tired body drugs aren’t always the solution


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkThis point on.

[RedWood1]

Depending on bloods I think a small dose of npp to see how he reacts might not be a bad idea. Like said before it’s short ester so can dump fast if needed. Anxious to see what bloods say


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkKnow my reply of Tren A is because he'd have to feel something unless his Receptors are shot. It would be a fast yay or nay. But honestly Blood Work is his best option and go from there.

[babybull34]

Maybe he needs a break from the gym and has a tired body drugs aren’t always the solution


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This is also a very good point and a very real possibility. Nice add, J.