First cycle advice please

[griggs64]

Little bit about myself: Just about to take my first cycle:


"Wk 1-12 test cyp 500mg per week (bulk here by taking on excess CLEAN calories)
Wk 1-4 dbol 40mg ED
Wk 11-16 test cyp 500mg per week (cut here by lowering calories and increasing cardio)
Wk 11-16 winstrol 50mg ED
Wk 3-19 adex .25mg E3D
The day after the last shot/dose of aas start HCG at 1000iu ED for 10 days. (it is important to run adex during this time)
The day after the HCG is done start pct using nolvadex 20/20/10/10/10 and clomid 50/50/25/25."

I'm 36, 5.7 - 10.8 stone - i can diet right and i work hard in the gym when i'm in the zone. But size is just something i'm struggling with!!!

Had this cycle suggested to me (as my first) in order to bulk a bit and then cut down and get into shape for the summer! ive been reading extensively and this seems like a well advised first cycle.

Any tips or advice on this would be much appreciated!

[Eric1237]

Run test for 12 weeks. You weigh 150 pounds at 5'7, take test and eat more. You will grow. If you're not lean at 150 then youre not gonna be from the 15-20 pounds you should put on this first cycle. Fuck the Winstrol and dbol

[griggs64]

i'm around 14-16%bf at the mo (ive been eating what i want and doing lazy weights for a while) - but i could change that no probs. something i can do is lose weight lol i got myself way down on the bf last summer by cutting out most of the carbs i eat and doing more cardio, sit ups etc. prob around 8% - but lots of people commented i looked ill. although i was actually at my strongest for a while.

[D-Latsky]

Im all for juicing bro:) but 5'7 150? you should be able to add plenty of size simply by applying yourself and eating more. AAs is a tool to aid in your goals of strength and siaze but using them at thids point is just a waste imo.

[griggs64]

Im all for juicing bro:) but 5'7 150? you should be able to add plenty of size simply by applying yourself and eating more. AAs is a tool to aid in your goals of strength and siaze but using them at thids point is just a waste imo.

good point - i put on a bit of weight 5-6 pounds before - took me about 9 months of eating and weights. must have a fast metabolism cause i'm a greedy bugger lol

[griggs64]

may try test cyp on its own first cycle - pct HCG clomid and nolvex as above? any more advice on amounts and when to take for this cycle would be much welcomed

[GD]

before you start your cyp...100mg clomid for 7 days then 14 days at 50mg...then start your cyp..as far as 500ng weekly...run in cycles of 10 days...your receptors are gonna be so clean you will see great results at low dosage...get some blood work done to see what your levels are at and then again at 4 weeks and adjust accordingly...

[tilltheend]

I would do it like this.
Wk 1-12 test cyp 500mg per week (bulk here by taking on excess CLEAN calories)
Wk 1-4 dbol 40mg ED
Wk 7-12 Winstrol 50MG ED (cut here by lowering calories and increasing cardio)
Wk 1-12 adex .25mg E3D
THE HCG I DO NOT KNOW EXACTLY HOW TO USE THAT BUT I WOULD START USING IT ABOUT HALF WAY INTO YOUR CYCLE.
End of cycle pct using nolvadex 20/20/10/10/10 and clomid 50/50/25/25."

[Nocode8511]

Little bit about myself: Just about to take my first cycle:


"Wk 1-12 test cyp 500mg per week (bulk here by taking on excess CLEAN calories)
Wk 1-4 dbol 40mg ED
Wk 11-16 test cyp 500mg per week (cut here by lowering calories and increasing cardio)
Wk 11-16 winstrol 50mg ED
Wk 3-19 adex .25mg E3D
The day after the last shot/dose of aas start HCG at 1000iu ED for 10 days. (it is important to run adex during this time)
The day after the HCG is done start pct using nolvadex 20/20/10/10/10 and clomid 50/50/25/25."

I'm 36, 5.7 - 10.8 stone - i can diet right and i work hard in the gym when i'm in the zone. But size is just something i'm struggling with!!!

Had this cycle suggested to me (as my first) in order to bulk a bit and then cut down and get into shape for the summer! ive been reading extensively and this seems like a well advised first cycle.

Any tips or advice on this would be much appreciated!

WAY TOO MUCH FOR FIRST CYCLE!

Stick with Test Cyp for 12 weeks @ 500mgs. Esp at 5'7 150lbs... Get that diet it check ASAP and lift hard "dont be lazy!"

[Nocode8511]

I would do it like this.
Wk 1-12 test cyp 500mg per week (bulk here by taking on excess CLEAN calories)
Wk 1-4 dbol 40mg ED
Wk 7-12 Winstrol 50MG ED (cut here by lowering calories and increasing cardio)
Wk 1-12 adex .25mg E3D
THE HCG I DO NOT KNOW EXACTLY HOW TO USE THAT BUT I WOULD START USING IT ABOUT HALF WAY INTO YOUR CYCLE.
End of cycle pct using nolvadex 20/20/10/10/10 and clomid 50/50/25/25."

That is way too much for him man. Why give advice on HCG if you dont know how to use it?

[tilltheend]

I don't know how to use it, if thats what he planned, thats a better cycle, hes going to run what he wants. Thats not too much for a first cycle either. Thats all hearsay. All he is doing is switching orals, no where near too much, all that is is a regular cycle. I told him I do not know how to use hcg but I guess if he uses it, use it halfway through his cycle. Because his testicles will shrink by that time if anything, and then by the time he is coming off, he can drop the hcg. I have heard hcg can be supressive. Like I said though, that isn't a bad first cycle at all. I hear of people doing test only. All he is doing is using an oral, and then switching it, nothing wrong with that. Infact I think I did the same thing my first cycle aswell, but I switched injects.

[Pointer1]

Keep it stupid simple but get serious first. Gear is not a cure for laziness or food. Test 500mg a week and save the AI until you need it. I don't see the point unless you are experiencing sides and taking it otherwise will slightly hinder gains. HCG has several different protocols including random use throughout to maintain your boys. The reason why I say you should do 1 compound first is to see how it affects you. If it's your first cycle and your busting 2-3 compounds and catch sides then you have no idea which is causing it and how to battle it. You will grow on test only and i'm sure you want the dbol for instant gains but remember without proper diet and exercise and your little frame you can say bye bye to the gains after pct. This is a lifestyle change bro.

[STEROID]

Keep it stupid simple but get serious first. Gear is not a cure for laziness or food. Test 500mg a week and save the AI until you need it. I don't see the point unless you are experiencing sides and taking it otherwise will slightly hinder gains. HCG has several different protocols including random use throughout to maintain your boys. The reason why I say you should do 1 compound first is to see how it affects you. If it's your first cycle and your busting 2-3 compounds and catch sides then you have no idea which is causing it and how to battle it. You will grow on test only and i'm sure you want the dbol for instant gains but remember without proper diet and exercise and your little frame you can say bye bye to the gains after pct. This is a lifestyle change bro.


Well said.No need for anything other than test for a first cycle brother.Drop the HCG and drop the winny.No need for either of them.The HCG is best run throughout your cycle to help keep you boys working so pct will be easier but with a basic test only cycle,a normal pct of nolva and clomid you should bounce back with ease.

You'll make plenty of gains with test if your training and diet are right on.The dbol kickstart is good so you can include that but otherwise keep it simple.Check out the cycle protocol threads brother.

[griggs64]

thanks - this is what i need a good debate on the go so i can see the diff opinions. Will look at the cycle protocol threads bro n thanks for the advice guys. the diet and working out hard isn't hard to get back into for me. i only started increasing the bf over the last 6 months or so. i got the idea in my head to have a bit of a lazy spell cause i broke my leg pretty bad thus the cardio went out the window. i basically kept benching in my flat in the mean time. iused to box a lot when i was younger so going up (a little) and down the weight is quite easy for me. Getting some good bulk is a diff matter tho!

Icon- pharma - i was wondering if you could elaborate for me bro - on the pre cycle clomid.

So taking into account the new advice i would prob be best with: pre cycle clomid (as above) then possibly dbol (as a kickstart) and test cyp - then pct clomid & nolva. or to simply go for test cyp (at what dose and how often i'm not sure?) and pct as above. With the option to add HCG. I was reading an article that suggested HCG should be used throughout the cycle rather than after - seemingly tests show the balls shrink quite fast and HCG prevents damage at an early stage if taken throughout.

Anymore advice would be much appreciated brothers :)

[STEROID]

Here brother,take a look at this.It will answer all of you questions.Not to be a dick,but learning the basics should be a must for anyone even thinking of cycling.Research and learn as much as you possibly can and than research some more.You'll be surprised at how much you can learn from just reading up form the posts here on board and once you get the basics down,many of your above questions you will already be able to answer.

Nothing wrong with asking questions,as you should.We all should.But theres also nothing wrong with learning all you can first.Its a dangerous game brother.Make sure you take you time and do it right.

http://www.brotherhoodofpain.com/showthread.php?3514-Cycles-Newbie-to-Advanced

http://www.brotherhoodofpain.com/showthread.php?3515-More-Cycle-Protocols (http://www.brotherhoodofpain.com/showthread.php?3514-Cycles-Newbie-to-Advanced)

[psa5]

I'm 36, 5.7 - 10.8 stone - i can diet right and i work hard in the gym when i'm in the zone. But size is just something i'm struggling with!!!

I dont mean to be harsh, but your stats say otherwise. How long have your been consistently training? What does your diet look like? What is your routine? Until you get all these variables in tune you wont see "steroid-type" results from any cycle. You'll just put on some water weight the first couple weeks, look bigger and then drop it all once you come off. Struggling with size? Size is a matter of being in a caloric surplus so learn how to eat my man.

Once your ready to cycle, pleassseeee don't do what you've posted, who ever recommend that was utterly confused. 16 week cycle as a noob at 36yrs of age... bulking and cutting at your level of exp... HCG during your grace period... no.

[griggs64]

don't worry bro's i'm a level headed dude! i will not cycle until i'm ready. this is like the build up period. i'll be in top shape before i cycle! and i have been reading extensively for a good while now some of its clicked. but to get the big picture (and confidence in what i'm about to do) its not quite yet fully clicked. but i certainly won't jump in half arsed. i understand that diet and training is everything (n i love that part) but trust me guys ive had my diet/training in check in the past and i don't put lots of size on naturally. well i'll grow sure but it takes longer for me than for some others ive watched in my time. Was on the ball for about 2.5 years one phase - nearly every day training eating right, stopped the weed n fags. got my pack n some ripped muscle but not lots of size n trust me i was eating large amounts of protein and good carbs, all the supps n shakes, creatine, little cardio, good rest, etc.

So i'm not going to run my pre training for 2.5 year this time before i do a cycle as i know approx where my plateau is. gonna do another 2- 3 months hard training and good eating then im usually back to roughly where i was at my biggest - muscle memory is a handy thing. but then i'm doing a cycle for def and i will not be swayed. Just need the right cycle bro's!

One of the main probs learning the cycles or compounds and what they do is that everyone you speak to has a diff theory on what to take and why - articles contradict themselves quite often or experienced users will contradict articles etc after they read them on forums - which is great but for a beginner trying to unravel the do' and don't mysteries its a nightmare. No one can really agree on whats right and whats wrong - there are however some underlying rules which i'm picking up on but its slow guys - thats why i'm asking for your help - to speed this bit up a touch.

[griggs64]

what i know so far: better with test cyp to start as if there are bad sides i can stop and its out my system much quicker than test e. HCG is used to stop your baws going into atrophy (although its debatable at what stage to start the course. the run of the mill pct is nolv and clomid but there are others for hair loss etc - can't mind the name! there are more i know but i'm trying to keep it simple. dbol can be a good kick start even on a first cycle. the least compounds i put in at first the better as i can see which ones are causing sides. diet and training are everything both on and off cycle as aas only help you repair and train sooner - its your hard training that puts on size! oh and no alcohol and a good diet/healthy lifestyle can prevent sides also.

So i'm prob best with test cyp on its own with HCG and then PCT nolv and clomid for my first cycle. Do you agree bro's? or as FIST states i may not need HCG at all (can you elaborate please FIST?)

[STEROID]

From my experience HCG is only needed for very long or SHIC cycles to help make your recovery easier.These cycles are much more harsh and shut you down a lot harder than any normal dosed,normal length cycle.So hcg will help your boys to fully recover a lot easier.The longer you run a cycle and the more you're shit down,the longer and more difficult it is to recover.

When you are first starting to cycle,you do not need to run such heavy or long duration cycles so with a normal pct your recovery will be fine.A normal pct consisting of Nolva & Clomid should be all you need after a test only cycle.

Also,the rule of thumb is...TIME ON = TIME OFF+ Meaning you want to take as much time off as you are on and possibly longer depending on how your body reacts to pct.With that being said,there should be plenty of time for you to recover fully through pct and supplementation and diet.While coming off and during off time,your body requirements will change so you will need to adjust how you eat,train and rest anyway so in combination to your pct,recovery should come quickly & smoothly.

Plus hcg increases your risks of negative side effects as well so why risk it if its not needed? Yes,there are some who are the extreme and will not recover from a pct alone and will need hcg,but they are the rarity.So many just jump on the hcg bandwagon because some guy on the internet told him to saying its needed to make recovery easier.Horror stories of how your balls shrink form AAS and without hcg you're doomed to a life of impotency!! Let me tell you brother,im almost 50 and my youngest son is 4 yrs old so I think my balls are functioning pretty well.You dont know how you will react to cycling so just adding more and more drugs because of the fear that something could happen is just foolish.

Can it make pct easier? Yes,it can,but just adding compounds because it could help or make things easier is not the way to remain healthy in this game brother.You want to not only be GTG today but tomorrow.The way to last and remain healthy is to cycle with the least amount of compounds for as long as you can BEFORE adding more compounds.The longer you continue to make gains on the least amount of gear,the healthier you will be in the long run,not to mention the amount of time and money you will save.

As you get older and your natural hormone levels start diminishing,then hcg will be needed more.

HCG makes things easier?? Who said cycling and bbing was suppose to be easy? Thats the problem today,no one wants to put in the time and work to achieve what they dream of.They just look for an easy solution.When it comes to not only your money but more importantly your lifetime of health,quick or easy is not what you're looking for.

Hope this clears things up for you.This is all my personal opinion based on over 2 decades of cycling and countless others that ive been involved with in this game.Everyone has their own opinions and do what they feel is best so im not saying my way is the right way.Only stating what I know from first hand experience.Take it as you will.

[STEROID]

Here's another great read on HCG brother.Tells you about the pro's and cons of its use......

http://www.brotherhoodofpain.com/showthread.php?3574-HCG-DURING-A-CYCLE&p=53655#post53655

[griggs64]

Cheers FIST - thanks for explaiing the HCg situation more clearly and good read! ive been delving into the idea of calories diff fats etc in order to understand some of the above points and i found a good couple of article on the various forms of fats and oils needed for develpment. i will incorporate some of the ideas in this article to get in top shape before my first cycle. then i'm planning doin the cycle you suggested - the way you suggested it. thanks bro

Here's the article if your intersted bro's:... http://www.weightrainer.net/nutrition/fats1.html

[griggs64]

Here brother,take a look at this.It will answer all of you questions.Not to be a dick,but learning the basics should be a must for anyone even thinking of cycling.Research and learn as much as you possibly can and than research some more.You'll be surprised at how much you can learn from just reading up form the posts here on board and once you get the basics down,many of your above questions you will already be able to answer.

Nothing wrong with asking questions,as you should.We all should.But theres also nothing wrong with learning all you can first.Its a dangerous game brother.Make sure you take you time and do it right.

http://www.brotherhoodofpain.com/showthread.php?3514-Cycles-Newbie-to-Advanced

(http://www.brotherhoodofpain.com/showthread.php?3514-Cycles-Newbie-to-Advanced)http://www.brotherhoodofpain.com/showthread.php?3515-More-Cycle-Protocols



Thats exactly what i needed thanks again

[STEROID]

No problem brother.Glad I could help guide you in the right direction.We're all learning every day and im no different.

Thanks for the article post.

[OJThaJuiceMan]

First cycle should be Test only, you have no idea how your body will react to the adversities.. so adding 5-6 of them isn't the smartest choice.

Furthermore, at your weight, it sounds like your diet will make or break you... you can take all the steroids and compounds you want brother, but if you can't maintain a strict diet, all your results will go down the drain when you cycle off. AAS is about the long haul; not blowing up, then losing it all in the next 4 weeks.. Slow and steady wins THIS race my friend.