Dnp slin

[Amjodor]

Anyone tried running slin preworkot while on dnp? It makes total sense to me.. low dose btw.


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[G160]

Anyone tried running slin preworkot while on dnp? It makes total sense to me.. low dose btw.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkCan you elaborate on how it makes sense?

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[Amjodor]

Can you elaborate on how it makes sense?

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So from what I understand on how dnp works, it disrupts the atp cycle and in short prevents your body from releasing insulin. In theory wouldn’t it be beneficial around your workout to artificially increase insulin (while being extremely insulin sensitive at this point too) which would allow those carbs ingested around your workout to actually be stored in your muscles then go back to a low carb diet the rest of the day. Basically anabolic during your workouts, fat burning all other times. Not sure how well I articulated my thoughts there....


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[RThoads]

yes, I have done that .
GH IM pre, and humalog SQ about 30 mins into the workout (intra workout detrose and other fast carbs + EAAs in my water).

[RThoads]

I posted this a little while back in another thread about metformin with DNP and think the info is relevant and could be helpful to someone here because it is very related to insulin+DNP (my personal stance is that a little bit of slin should be used while on DNP if carbs are being consumed):


Let me share with you something a VERY knowledgeable and respected source that know much more than I do said about this topic:

"No way. [DNP] increases blood sugar because it doesn't store as well. It's excreted for heat production If u use metformin [you] will be exhausted and less energy for no reason. That glucose will be burned as heat anyway. Lowering it will only lower [you're] blood sugar more.
[You] don't want it pulling from muscle by doing that either."
--Coach


However, with that said (and he knows a lot more than myself), yes, I could see metformin helping while on DNP.

Consider this information:

"Many of the articles written about DNP refer to it’s abilities to block the actions of insulin. This is true only in a limited sense. Insulin is released by pancreatic beta cells in response to elevated ATP/ADP ratios. Briefly, when your blood sugar levels rise, your ATP/ADP levels become elevated, inhibiting ATP sensitive potassium ion channels (KATP), altering the membrane potential of the pancreatic cells and causing insulin release. The key point here is that insulin will not be released unless ATP levels within the cells increase. DNP interferes with the protein complex ATP synthase, which allows for the synthesis of ATP from ADP and Pi (inorganic phosphate). Since DNP interferes with a key step in ATP production, obviously ATP levels never elevate within any cell, including pancreatic beta cells. Hence, the feedback system through the KATP channels (at least in regards to insulin release), is disabled, and you effectively make yourself a diabetic while on DNP.

The primary action of insulin in the body is to drive glucose into muscle and liver cells (stored as glycogen) which is converted into ATP. ATP again? Since DNP reduces ATP production significantly, it again interferes with insulin by preventing a significant amount of the glucose that is pushed into cells by insulin from ever being used as energy (at least by the cell). So, what is happening to all of this energy that is being expended through the electron transport chain to turn ADP and Pi into ATP? It’s thrown off as heat, and lots of it. In fact, because the amount of heat produced is a direct correlation of how much DNP is consumed, taking too much DNP will cook you from the inside out. Let me repeat this. Taking too much DNP will fry you like an egg. It doesn’t sound like a pleasant way to die, does it? DNP is not one of those, hey a little did me good, more will do me better kind of substances. A little will do you good and more will burn your ass up.

So, now we understand the ways in which DNP interferes with some of the actions of insulin. Another action of insulin (thank you God) is that it promotes transport of amino acids from the bloodstream into muscles and other cells. Insulin also increases the rate at which amino acids are incorporated into protein. Although DNP does block the release of insulin and prevents a key component of the electron transport chain (ATP synthase, remember?), it does nothing to prevent the aforementioned extremely anabolic affect of insulin. Therefore, when you use DNP, you should be administering insulin at the same time. The exogenous insulin will still work its anabolic magic while the DNP burns off reams of body fat through the resultant metabolic increase."
--unknown author

[Amjodor]

Yeah I already do 4iu gh pre workout I’m thinking of trying like 5iu slin (preworkout meal now is 1/2cup oats, blackberries and 25gm protein shake) I would add in 50gm karabolyn (have it on hand). Intra workout.


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[Amjodor]

I posted this a little while back in another thread about metformin with DNP and think the info is relevant and could be helpful to someone here because it is very related to insulin+DNP (my personal stance is that a little bit of slin should be used while on DNP if carbs are being consumed):


Let me share with you something a VERY knowledgeable and respected source that know much more than I do said about this topic:

"No way. [DNP] increases blood sugar because it doesn't store as well. It's excreted for heat production If u use metformin [you] will be exhausted and less energy for no reason. That glucose will be burned as heat anyway. Lowering it will only lower [you're] blood sugar more.
[You] don't want it pulling from muscle by doing that either."
--Coach


However, with that said (and he knows a lot more than myself), yes, I could see metformin helping while on DNP.

Consider this information:

"Many of the articles written about DNP refer to it’s abilities to block the actions of insulin. This is true only in a limited sense. Insulin is released by pancreatic beta cells in response to elevated ATP/ADP ratios. Briefly, when your blood sugar levels rise, your ATP/ADP levels become elevated, inhibiting ATP sensitive potassium ion channels (KATP), altering the membrane potential of the pancreatic cells and causing insulin release. The key point here is that insulin will not be released unless ATP levels within the cells increase. DNP interferes with the protein complex ATP synthase, which allows for the synthesis of ATP from ADP and Pi (inorganic phosphate). Since DNP interferes with a key step in ATP production, obviously ATP levels never elevate within any cell, including pancreatic beta cells. Hence, the feedback system through the KATP channels (at least in regards to insulin release), is disabled, and you effectively make yourself a diabetic while on DNP.

The primary action of insulin in the body is to drive glucose into muscle and liver cells (stored as glycogen) which is converted into ATP. ATP again? Since DNP reduces ATP production significantly, it again interferes with insulin by preventing a significant amount of the glucose that is pushed into cells by insulin from ever being used as energy (at least by the cell). So, what is happening to all of this energy that is being expended through the electron transport chain to turn ADP and Pi into ATP? It’s thrown off as heat, and lots of it. In fact, because the amount of heat produced is a direct correlation of how much DNP is consumed, taking too much DNP will cook you from the inside out. Let me repeat this. Taking too much DNP will fry you like an egg. It doesn’t sound like a pleasant way to die, does it? DNP is not one of those, hey a little did me good, more will do me better kind of substances. A little will do you good and more will burn your ass up.

So, now we understand the ways in which DNP interferes with some of the actions of insulin. Another action of insulin (thank you God) is that it promotes transport of amino acids from the bloodstream into muscles and other cells. Insulin also increases the rate at which amino acids are incorporated into protein. Although DNP does block the release of insulin and prevents a key component of the electron transport chain (ATP synthase, remember?), it does nothing to prevent the aforementioned extremely anabolic affect of insulin. Therefore, when you use DNP, you should be administering insulin at the same time. The exogenous insulin will still work its anabolic magic while the DNP burns off reams of body fat through the resultant metabolic increase."
--unknown author

Thanks for posting this, I think I was the one asking about metformin [emoji23]


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[Amjodor]

I take no credit for this, I found it on another forum very interesting read!!


From 'Building The Perfect Beast' (Arthur Rea)

For a moment imagine the freaky potential insulin would possess for lean tissue growth if it did not inhibit fat loss while remaining anabolic to muscle tissue? Yup, a poor mans IGF-1 would be the result!

DNP (2,4 DINITROPHENOL)

This was truly reported as being chemical exercise. Normally the mitochondria
process that converts ADP (adenosine diphosphate) into ATP (adenosine triphosphate) is about 60% efficient, which means there is a great deal of energy wasted. Those who have read the creatine section ahead of this are well aware of our good friend ATP.

When we exercise, this process accelerates and raises our metabolic rate. (More calories are burned as a result) The process is called oxidative phosphorylation. Since ATP is the high-energy chemical our bodies utilize for intense training, anything that compromises this process will make cellular mitochondria work harder and expend more energy as heat. (Body temperature rises).

DNP is an oxidative phosphorylation uncoupler. It makes the process only about 40% efficient by uncoupling a high-energy phosphate molecule from ATP and therefore turning ATP into ADP. To maintain an adequate supply of ATP, the body must step-up production. For this reason metabolism is significantly increased and an incredible amount of calories are burned. During this accelerated metabolic state, and due to the need for ATP production, most of the calories come from fatty acids (adipose/fat tissue). So little or no muscle is lost (With adequate protein intake).

Users experienced elevated body temperatures and perspiration even while
sitting around. Simply stated, metabolic rates elevate 100-200% in only a few hours.

Sounds great, but DNP can be deadly. It has even been used as a component of bug spray. Since increased energy is dissipated as body heat, too high of a dosage of DNP for to long of a period can actually COOK ORGANS! No joke, I mean medium well done. I cannot stress enough how dangerous the use of this chemical can be.

The body usually possesses receptors or pathways to shut down as a means of survival from the potential life threatening dangers and damage of most chemicals. In the case of DNP there are none.

The issue of body temperature is of interest here and is a relevant point to
discuss further. Clenbuterol and ephedrine are fairly easy to chart for effective results by checking body temperature. However, DNP is much different in this sense. When an athlete (or anyone) used DNP, increased respiration, heart rate, and skin dilation occurred. Thus heat is quickly dissipated. This means that a person using DNP could feel warm but a thermometer can fail to show an increase in body temperature. According to available literature, in most cases a body temperature of near 100 degrees indicates a metabolic rate of about twice normal. It also means that the individual is in the very near the danger zone. This is wholly unnecessary, and it is the low cellular ATP level induced by high dosage DNP use that was most dangerous.

The temperature or heat issue is secondary by comparison. Most reported
users of DNP ingested a daily dosage of 6-8 mg per kilogram of body weight.
Realistically speaking, I can say from personal experience that this is not only an uncomfortable experience, but dangerous and unnecessary as well. My experience has been that 3-5mg/kg daily provided better results and did so even without a calorie decrease. Personally I felt a body temperature of 99.5-99.7 degrees was preferable also.

Before going on, I would like to say a few related points. Now we know that the mitochondrial process of converting ADP into ATP is called oxidative phosphorylation and that the process is normally 60% efficient. We know DNP is an oxidative phosphorylation uncoupler that will reduce the process efficiency to 40% and that this burns fat while raising metabolic rates 100-200% while increasing body temperature.

(We also know misuse can cook our guts!).

*So now we have insulin and its "anabolic to muscle and fat" alike qualities and DNP that increases calorie expenditure primarily from fat stores. It would seem that we have applied Action/Reaction Factors correctly to create an increase in lean tissue mass at the expense of adipose tissue stores. But here is where it gets really interesting...

Warning: More Science Geek Stuff Interesting

Studies Sometimes Validate What We Have learned

*Rapid stimulation of glucose transport by mitochondria! uncoupling depends in part on cytosolic Ca2+ and cPKC Z A Khayat, T Tsakiridis, A Ueyama, R Somwar, A Kiip AMERICAN JOURNAL OF PHYSIOLOGY, 275(6 Pt 1):C1487~C1497 1998


2,4-Dinitrophenoi (DNP) uncouples the mitochondria! oxidative chain from ATP
production, preventing oxidative metabolism, The consequent increase in energy demand is, however, contested by cells increasing glucose uptake to produce ATP via glycolysis. In skeletal muscle cells, DNP rapidly doubles glucose transport, reminiscent of the effect of insulin. However, glucose transport stimulation by DNP does not require insulin receptor substrate-1 phosphorylation and is wortmanniti insensitive.

Overnight treatment with 4-phorbol 12-myristate 13-acetate down-regulated
cPKC isoforms alpha, beta, and gamma and partially inhibited (45.0 +/- 3.6%) DNPbut not insulin-stimulated glucose uptake. Consistent with this, the PKC inhibitor bisindolyimaleimide I blocked PKC enzyme activity at the plasma membrane (100%) and inhibited DNP-stimulated 2-[3H]deoxyglucose uptake (61.2 +/- 2.4%) with no effect on the stimulation of glucose transport by insulin. Finally, the selective PKCbeta inhibitor LY-379196 partially inhibited DNP effects on glucose uptake (66.7 +/-1.6%). The results suggest interfering with mitochondria! ATP production acts on a signal transduction pathway independent from that of insulin and partly mediated by Ca2+ and cPKCs, of which PKC-beta likely plays a significant role.

So now we know that insulin is not the only mediator of glucose transport into muscle cells. We also have validated the increase in potential muscle glycogen synthesis during the employment of DNP is about twice that of insulin. Hmmm, not getting it yet? Be patient. You will in a minute.

*Effects of cellular ATP depletion on glucose transport and insulin signaling in 3T3-L1 adipocytes
E Heart, J Kang, C K Sung
American Journal of Physiology - Endocrinology and Metabolism , 280(3):E428-E435 2001

Glucosamine induced insulin resistance in 3T3-L1 adipocytes (fat cells), which
was associated with a 15% decrease in cellular ATP content. To study the role of ATP depletion in insulin resistance, researchers employed sodium azide (NaN3) and dinitropheno! (DNP), which affect mitochondrial oxidative phosphorylation, to achieve a similar 15% ATP depletion.

Unlike glucosamine, NaN3 and DNP markedly increased basal glucose
transport, and the increased basal glucose transport was associated with increased GLUT-1 content in the plasma membrane without changes in total GLUT-1 content.

These agents, like glucosamine, did not affect the early insulin signaling that is implicated in insulin stimulation of glucose transport. In cells with a severe 40% ATP depletion, basal glucose transport was similarly elevated, and insulin-stimulated glucose transport was similar in cells with 15% ATP depletion.

In these cells, however, early insulin signaling was severely diminished. These
data suggest that cellular ATP depletion by glucosamine, NaN3, and DNP exerts differential effects on basal and insulin-stimulated glucose transport and that ATP depletion per se does not induce insulin resistance in 3T3-L1 adipocytes.

DNP aids in inducing an environment of insulin resistance in adipose sites thus
decreasing the ability for fat cells to get food. So DNP increases calorie expenditure as heat, increases glucose transport into muscle cells but decreases fat cell gluttony. Gee, do you think the combination of the super anabolic insulin and DNP just may be very pro-muscle growth and fat loss?

Closing Thoughts and Other insanity

When athletes have employed the DNP/lnsulin Protocol in the past there has
been a noted dramatic increase in lean tissue mass and a lack of hypoglycemia in almost all cases. This in itself was an exciting issue to research as one of the many negative side effects possible from non-medically supervised administration of insulin in hypoglycemia and coma...and death. (All of which suck)

There are two possible explanations for this:

1. The insulin molecule is experiencing N-terminal truncation when coming into
contact with circulatory DNP. When the N-terminal is removed from IGF-1 the
resulting growth factor is called Des (1-3) IGF-1. The result is an anabolic far
more powerful than even IGF-1 itself. This is true of IGF-2 and other growth
factors including insulin. The possibility strongly suggests that the truncated
insulin molecule would more readily fit into and activate the muscle cell IGF-1
receptors as well.

2. The insulin and IGF-1 receptors themselves are truncated by the presence of DNP. In this case the truncation is effecting the COOH-Terminal response thus altering the hypoglycemic and anabolic effects of insulin positively toward that of IGF-1 in both function and action.

*There are several approaches that have been employed for Insulin and DNP but one of the more effective examples follows. Please do not try this at home. (Even with proper medical supervision and a professional exterminator.)

WARNING!
This is intended as a discussion example only and not meant as a guide for use. DNP and insulin can both be very dangerous chemicals. Insulin use must be medically supervised and DNP has not been a legal supplement since the 20's.

Insulin & Bug Spray Example Protocol

DAY DRUGS

1. Humulin-R 8-10 iu 3xd/DNP 4-5mg/kg Daily
2.
3. Humulin-R 8-10 iu 3xd/DNP 4-5mg/kg Daily
4.
5. Humulin-R 8-10 iu 3xd/DNP 4-5mg/kg Daily
6.
7. Humulin-R 8-10 iu 3xd/DNP 4-5mg/kg Daily
8.
9. Humulin-R 8-10 iu 3xd/DNP 4-5mg/kg Daily
10.
11. Humulin-R 8-10 iu 3xd/DNP 4-5mg/kg Daily
12.
13. Humulin-R 8-10 iu 3xd/DNP 4-5mg/kg Daily
14.
15. Humulin-R 8-10 iu 3xd/DNP 4-5mg/kg Daily
16.
17. Humulin-R 8-10 iu 3xd/DNP 4-5mg/kg Daily
18.
19. Humulin-R 8-10 iu 3xd/DNP 4-5mg/kg Daily
20.
21. Humulin-R 8-10 iu 3xd/DNP 4-5mg/kg Daily
22.
23. Humulin-R 8-10 iu 3xd/DNP 4-5mg/kg Daily
24.
25. Humulin-R 8-10 iu 3xd/DNP 4-5mg/kg Daily
26.
27. Humulin-R 8-10 iu 3xd/DNP 4-5mg/kg Daily
28.

• Optional layer: Avandia 2mg 2xd increases muscle cell insulin receptor sensitivity and facilitates an improved IGF-1 profile.




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[Amjodor]

Alright added 5iu slin today. I did my 1/2 cup oatmeal with some fruit and 30gm protein shake and 4iu gh. About 30min later 5iu slin and drank 50gm karabolyn and creatine and bcAas about 20min later during my workout. I noticed more of a pump (usually no pump on dnp). I’m 5 days in on 400mg a day split into a morning and evening dose. I had a 40gm protein shake post workout then 2 cans of tuna and 150gm of rice about 90min after that (fastest I could eat with work). Rest of the day is meat and veggies. I’ll keep updated.


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[Primemuscle]

Alright added 5iu slin today. I did my 1/2 cup oatmeal with some fruit and 30gm protein shake and 4iu gh. About 30min later 5iu slin and drank 50gm karabolyn and creatine and bcAas about 20min later during my workout. I noticed more of a pump (usually no pump on dnp). I’m 5 days in on 400mg a day split into a morning and evening dose. I had a 40gm protein shake post workout then 2 cans of tuna and 150gm of rice about 90min after that (fastest I could eat with work). Rest of the day is meat and veggies. I’ll keep updated.


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Where did you get your DNP from if you don’t mind me asking?


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[Amjodor]

A friend and I’m trying to get more as I’m almost out but I’m having trouble finding it!! Been searching all over, if you find out pm me


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[Primemuscle]

A friend and I’m trying to get more as I’m almost out but I’m having trouble finding it!! Been searching all over, if you find out pm me


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No doubt will do. And if you find some shoot me a pm please


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[Amjodor]

Update! Anyone that’s used dnp knows it flattens you the hell out. So I’ve don’t slin 3 days so far pre workout.

5iu first day
8iu second
10iu third

Preworkout is 3/4 cup oatmeal and strawberries and 25gm protein shake 4iu gh

Slin 20min pre then I drink liquid protein 23gm, 50gm dextrose, creatine, bcaa.

Post workout 40gm protein (60-90min workout)

30min later lean meat (tuna, steak or turkey) 150gm rice. Rest of the day all meat and veggies.

Still 400gm dnp


I filled the hell out! Look leaner more vascular, (morning weight is around the same) and am pumped all day. So far so good!


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[Primemuscle]

Update! Anyone that’s used dnp knows it flattens you the hell out. So I’ve don’t slin 3 days so far pre workout.

5iu first day
8iu second
10iu third

Preworkout is 3/4 cup oatmeal and strawberries and 25gm protein shake 4iu gh

Slin 20min pre then I drink liquid protein 23gm, 50gm dextrose, creatine, bcaa.

Post workout 40gm protein (60-90min workout)

30min later lean meat (tuna, steak or turkey) 150gm rice. Rest of the day all meat and veggies.

Still 400gm dnp


I filled the hell out! Look leaner more vascular, (morning weight is around the same) and am pumped all day. So far so good!


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That’s what’s up. Appreciate the update! Good work bra


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[Amjodor]

Update!

Been doing 8iu slin pre workout (workout days only. Gh is 4iu 6 days a week) same eating everyday 400gm dnp

Down to 185 first thing am. But I look full as fuck.! I look leaner than ever and tighter than ever. I’ve been knocking out 15-20min walking cardio post workout too, in hopes of dropping blood glucose back down and to let dnp do its thing the rest of the day. Also strength is coming back to where it was pre dnp. Fun shit!

I tested at 9.1% with the 9 point caliper test at 195 before this, anxious to see where I’m at in a couple weeks


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