* * * * GH "RAMP" PROTOCOL & T3/T4 DISCUSSION * * * *

[Riggs]

GH starter "ramp" protocol &
T3/T4 supplementation discussion

I was asked to throw this together and I had to do so while sitting on a leg press. Thankfully I have the gym to myself. If there's spellng and grammar problems I'll edit it later. Hopefully it's not horrible cause I'm kinda rushed...here we go.

4iu's - 5iu's
Start with 1iu for 3 weeks, ramp to 2iu for 3 weeks, 3iu for 3 weeks, 4iu for 3 weeks. 4-5 iu and less for therapeutic benefits and improved AAS benefits. If at any point CTS or swelling is an issue back off 1iu and do a 6 week ramp until sides subside. If sides persist go back to dosage that yielded no sides and ramp at 9 week intervals. The other side is feeling tired, IMO that's more an issue of timing your dose, and I'll address that later in detail.

Split am/pm.
Dose upon waking in a fasted state is best for fat burning but if feeling tired is an issue dose light in the morning and more in the evening for example 1iu a.m./3iu p.m. If you don't get too tired after dosing and fat burning is your focus then pining more iu's in a fasted state upon waking will be what you want to aim for and in this case 3iu a.m/1iu p.m will do. If I'm not waking @ 3:30 a.m. for the purpose of fasted cardio then I set my alarm for 3a.m., have my pin loaded in my mini fridge by my bed, simply roll over, open the mini fridge, pin then I'm going right back to sleep. It literally takes me seconds and I'll actually wake just before my alarm goes off cause I'm heavily anticipating the dose. This way I wake @ 6:30 and my body is already primed and in a fat burning state. Several hours have passed since pining and I can eat a good clean breakfast which I love. In an effort to avoid building insulin desensitization you'll need to not eat for at least an hour after you dose and I prefer longer. So for your p.m. dose I do my p.m. training, immediately carb up after and I wait an hour and a half to pin my evening dose.

CTS - numbness/tingling in the hands
The ramp protocol is a slow one but I assure you if you get hit with intense CTS (numbness & tingling in your hands) you'll wish you had taken the ramp route. I've got friends who we're accustomed to the high oil volume of AAS and, in looking at a mere 4iu's, decided to jump in and go straight to 2iu morning/2iu night. Well one of em is still experiencing CTS to this day. So IME if you dive in too quickly the sides can be very persistent whereas with the ramp protocol I've never had anyone come back to me complaining about sides that persisted past the point of the increased 9 week ramp. It's obvious to me that the point in starting with GH is allowing the body time to adapt and staying ahead of the sides. GH is not like AAS guys. It's very potent and has a profound affect on our body. The first time you see 4iu's your gonna do what we all do and say "seriously that's it?" To this day it's hard for me to grasp the potency of GH.

Bac water -
I use a 23g pin and draw 1cc of Bac water. I add 1cc of air to the pin so I have a total of 2cc in the pin...1cc of Bac water and 1cc of air to equal out the pressure in the GH vial. Now take the vial of powder GH and turn it at an angle so you can poke the pin through the rubber top at an angle so the needle is against the glass. DO NOT ALLOW THE BAC WATER TO SPRAY DIRECTLY ON THE POWDER ANGLE THE NEEDLE ON THE GLASS. Now with 1cc Bac water added to now have 10iu of reconstituted GH and each line on a 1cc/ml pin is 1iu. Now the powder might not completely dissolve so DO NOT SHAKE THE VIAL IT WILL DESTROY THE GH. Simply place the vial between your hands and slowly roll your hands back and forth. It might take a few minutes but will eventually completely dissolve. Make sure ALL the powder is dissolved and reconstituted.

Administering you're GH subq
You want to follow the same cleaning process used in pining AAS. I simply pinch some fat one inch away from my belly button and it's that simple. Some will say you must pin at a slight angle but I just go straight in and I'm g2g. It's very common to get a small lump right where you pin and this will subside momentarily. IMO there's no need to aspirate when pining subq. Again some will swear you must but I've never had an issue or had anyone I've coached have an issue either.

T3/T4 supplementation

<6iu's.
Under 6 iu's I don't supplement with T4. Based on my bloods I've always been within a range I'm ok with and was happy with my recomp. We all are different tho so I'll express my position in more detail. Just know if you choose to supplement with T3 bloods are a must to monitor T3 levels otherwise you're at risk of losing valuable lean muscle mass.

T4 naturally converts to T3 in the case of a deficit. Exogenous GH will cause T4 to T3 conversion to accelerate. If you supplement with T3 it can easily get too high causing you to cannibalize valuable lean muscle and flatten you out. Therefore IMO supplementing T4 is more synergistic with exogenous GH. You'll see guys on GH have low T4 levels and elevated T3 so cover the lower marker and your g2g. Now if your doing a show and need to make weight then I can see the logic behind keeping T3 higher but for the average hobbyist IMO its counterproductive and wastes valuable lean muscle mass. I'm not a competitor nor am I referring to the needs of a competitor. I'm targeting the average hobbyist with this protocol because it's what I know.

>6iu's
That's not my comfort zone so I'll stay away from this and let someone else chime in. But I would assume that T4 supplementation is encouraged. The key is doing your bloodwork especially if you surpass the 6iu marker. But again I'm a below 6iu guy so take my comments on this part lightly.

I learned all this through trial/error and friends/family who have been at it for 20yrs but as always I strongly encourage you to use my comments as a reference point and
do your own research.

Keep grinding my brother's!!

[Droid1988]

Great info as always


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[Riggs]

Great info as always


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Dude you've been on my mind really anxious to hear from yah bud. I'll text yah...

[Diesel1965]

GH starter "ramp" protocol &
T3/T4 supplementation discussion

I was asked to throw this together and I had to do so while sitting on a leg press. Thankfully I have the gym to myself. If there's spellng and grammer problems I'll edit it later. Hopefully it's not horrible cause I'm kinda rushed...here we go.

4iu's - 5iu's
Start with 1iu for 3 weeks, ramp to 2iu for 3 weeks, 3iu for 3 weeks, 4iu for 3 weeks. 4-5 iu and less for therapeutic benefits and improved AAS benefits. If at any point CTS or swelling is an issue back off 1iu and do a 6 week ramp until sides subside. If sides persist go back to dosage that yielded no sides and ramp at 9 week intervals. The other side is feeling tired, IMO that's more an issue of timing your dose, and I'll address that later in detail.

Split am/pm. Dose upon waking in a fasted state is best for fat burning but if feeling tired is an issue dose light in the morning and more on the evening for example 1iu a.m./3iu p.m. If you don't get too tired after dosing and fat burning is your focus then pining more iu's in a fasted state upon waking will be what you want to aim for. If I'm not waking @ 3:30 a.m. for the purpose of fasted cardio then I set my alarm for 3a.m., have my pin loaded in my mini fridge by my bed, simply roll over, open the mini fridge, pin then back to sleep. This way I wake @ 6:30 and my body is already primed and in a fat burning state. Several hours have passed since pining and I can eat a good clean breakfast which I love dearly. Evenly splitting the dose is common and you can adjust the iu's based on sides. If you're evenly splitting the a.m./p.m. dose, and the morning dose in a fasted state makes you too sleepy, then do less iu's in the morning and more in the evening. In an effort to avoid building insulin desensitization you'll need to not eat for at least an hour after you dose and I prefer longer. So for your p.m. dose I do my p.m. training, immediately carb up after and I wait an hour and a half to pin my evening dose.

T3/T4 supplementation

<6iu's.
Under 6 iu's I don't supplement with T4. Based on my bloods I've always been within a range I'm ok with and was happy with my recomp. We all are different tho so I'll express my position in more detail. Just know if you choose to supplement with T3/T4 bloods are a must otherwise you will lose valuable lean muscle mass.

T4 naturally converts to T3 in the case of a deficit. GH will cause T4 to T3 conversion to accelerate. If you supplement with T3 it can easily get too high causing you to cannibalize valuable lean muscle and flatten you out. Therefore IMO supplementing T4 is more synergistic with exogenous GH. You'll see guys on GH have low T4 levels and elevated T3 so cover the lower marker and your g2g. Now if your doing a show and need to make weight then I can see the logic behind keeping T3 higher but for the average hobbyist IMO its counterproductive and wastes valuable lean muscle mass. I'm not a competitor nor am I referring to the needs of a competitor. I'm targeting the average hobbyist with this protocol because it's what I know.

>6iu's
That's not my comfort zone so I'll stay away from this and let someone else chime in. But I would assume that T4 supplementation is encouraged. The key is doing your bloodwork especially if you surpass the 6iu marker. But again I'm a below 6iu guy so take my comments on this part lightly.

I learned all this through trial/error and friends who have been at it for 20yrs but I strongly encourage you to use my comments as a reference point and do your own research. Keep grinding!

Nuggets of gold information right here.

[MEB]

can you make this a sticky

[Weapon X]

Appreciate you taking the time to put this post together Brother

[Starhopper]

This is great information and thank you for posting it.

I just started GH last Monday along with my first cycle of Test Cyp at 500mg per week (split 2x) I started at 1iu per day in the AM and just went to 2iu on Friday. I have noticed I get very tired about 2 hours after pinning. My goal was to ramp to 3iu for fat burning while on cycle. I have only been on 2iu for 3 days and think I can combat it with a little coffee about 1-2 hours after pinning to help. If that does not help, I will go back to 1iu AM with cardio, and then 2iu PM and see what happens.

Thank you again for this post.

[Riggs]

I added some more to the original post because I've had a couple pm's from guys who are completely new to GH and we're looking for a more complete tutorial.

Pls continue to let me know if there's more that needs to be addressed. I can easily over look some of the basics and if your like me you'll want to have all the details long b4 you're first pin.

[Weapon X]

Pls continue to let me know if there's more that needs to be addressed. I can easily over look some of the basics and if your like me you'll want to have all the details long b4 you're first pin.

I’ll add one more little piece to consider when thinking about when to pin your GH. Your age. As you age, your growth hormone production and secretion changes. As an older bodybuilder using GH, I’ve spent a bit of time reading studies on the changes age has on GH production and release.

For example, I’ve read a number of studies that indicated when you are younger (under 40) up to 70% of daily GH release occurs when you are sleeping at night. So, for someone younger it would make the most sense to pin several smaller doses of GH during the day.

The studies also indicated that as you age (over 40) the amount of GH you produce declines as you age and that there is a significant decline in GH release when you are sleeping so that most of the GH released is released during the day and very little released at night.

So, for myself, I pin all of my GH in one dose before I go to bed at night.

[Violator]

Great information glad to see someone only recommending t4 use with hgh and as needed. Far to many people throw t4 in without doing bloodwork and usually throw in t3 with it. Top quality post Riggs as always

[Riggs]

I’ll add one more little piece to consider when thinking about when to pin your GH. Your age. As you age, your growth hormone production and secretion changes. As an older bodybuilder using GH, I’ve spent a bit of time reading studies on the changes age has on GH production and release.

For example, I’ve read a number of studies that indicated when you are younger (under 40) up to 70% of daily GH release occurs when you are sleeping at night. So, for someone younger it would make the most sense to pin several smaller doses of GH during the day.

The studies also indicated that as you age (over 40) the amount of GH you produce declines as you age and that there is a significant decline in GH release when you are sleeping so that most of the GH released is released during the day and very little released at night.

So, for myself, I pin all of my GH in one dose before I go to bed at night.

Brother your spot on as always. All this is very true and should be taken in to consideration when deciding to do GH and at what age. I studied for yrs and decided to wait til I was older to do GH and I'm very glad I did. And as always what you're goals are will decide the steps you take and the protocol you choose. A competitor looking for beast mode next level mass gains that will potentially dose 10iu 3 x ED along side insulin will gain little to nothing from this thread.

You are a welcomed presence here Weapon and I support any and everything you are willing to contribute my brother 100%.

[Weapon X]

And as always what you're goals are will decide the steps you take and the protocol you choose..

Thanks Riggs. The sentence above is so accurate

[Kombatarts99]

Amazing info Riggs! Thank you bro!

[Riggs]

Amazing info Riggs! Thank you bro!

I'm back on 6iu's my brother and OMG I've missed it....you gotta Wickr me man big news to share. Lots of good shit going on and coming up.

[DubleDizzle]

This one ?

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[Riggs]

28272

[Riggs]

This one ?

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Yezr'

[Longball25]

This is one of the reasons that I really appreciate this subforum. Posts like this that contain so much information, yet are based on real life experience, are invaluable. Thanks Riggs for posts like these that increase all of our knowledge.

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[TX_Hempknight]

So when testing gh, when they say pin 10iu IM, you are literally injecting the entire vial, 1ml of water with 10 IU of gh reconstituted into muscle, correct?

[Riggs]

So when testing gh, when they say pin 10iu IM, you are literally injecting the entire vial, 1ml of water with 10 IU of gh reconstituted into muscle, correct?

Yes. For the purpose of checking potency inject 10iu to the delt and draw bloods 3 - 3.5 hours later. I use a 27g 1/2".

[gihbo]

Tanks Riggie!!

[Cody123]

Great info Riggs. I know we talked before I started Victory GH and I can say I followed your advice and I’ve settled in at 4.5 ius and everything is great. You are running 6ius? On my fourth kit now and has really impressed me.

[Saint_Michael201]

Fucking Power knowledge at our fingertips. Thank you.


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[SunBorne]

Thanks, Riggs. I do have a question and the answer still seems to allude me. Is there such a thing as a GH cycle, and what are the results when coming off? Is it like an AAS cycle where you lose all the benefits once you stop the protocol?

[Riggs]

Thanks, Riggs. I do have a question and the answer still seems to allude me. Is there such a thing as a GH cycle, and what are the results when coming off? Is it like an AAS cycle where you lose all the benefits once you stop the protocol?

The standard GH cycle is "long" haha no there's no cycle per say. And asong as you're not abusive then there's no come off with GH except you'll get fat again and you're veins dissappear...lol.

Look in laymen's terms AAS only causes you're muscles to grow whereas GH actually adds more muscle tissue/cells. So absolutely keep much more of you're GH gains than AAS gains. And the benefits yielded by GH are far more and much more therapeutic than with AAS. Also IME when doing GH I need FAR less AAS to make even more gains. IMO its truly a miracle hormone. If you're over 35 and can do it for 10-12 months straight it's nothing short of life changing. The coolest thing for me is I get very little sides from Tren while on GH.

[Cody123]

I will second that comment on the tren. Shit gets weird for me on tren and I can say the past couple months on tren haven’t been too bad. I’ve been sleeping a little better and I’ve been able to keep my head in check. Still sweat like a pig at night but oh well. Right now running 750 test e, 600 EQ, 600 Mast, 400 tren e, and 4 iu GH. I am going to run Vic GH as long as I can. Definitely a game changer. Talking to Vic today about getting some more. $$



The standard GH cycle is "long" haha no there's no cycle per say. And asong as you're not abusive then there's no come off with GH except you'll get fat again and you're veins dissappear...lol.

Look in laymen's terms AAS only causes you're muscles to grow whereas GH actually adds more muscle tissue/cells. So absolutely keep much more of you're GH gains than AAS gains. And the benefits yielded by GH are far more and much more therapeutic than with AAS. Also IME when doing GH I need FAR less AAS to make even more gains. IMO its truly a miracle hormone. If you're over 35 and can do it for 10-12 months straight it's nothing short of life changing. The coolest thing for me is I get very little sides from Tren while on GH.

[ltn]

GH starter "ramp" protocol &
T3/T4 supplementation discussion

I was asked to throw this together and I had to do so while sitting on a leg press. Thankfully I have the gym to myself. If there's spellng and grammar problems I'll edit it later. Hopefully it's not horrible cause I'm kinda rushed...here we go.

4iu's - 5iu's
Start with 1iu for 3 weeks, ramp to 2iu for 3 weeks, 3iu for 3 weeks, 4iu for 3 weeks. 4-5 iu and less for therapeutic benefits and improved AAS benefits. If at any point CTS or swelling is an issue back off 1iu and do a 6 week ramp until sides subside. If sides persist go back to dosage that yielded no sides and ramp at 9 week intervals. The other side is feeling tired, IMO that's more an issue of timing your dose, and I'll address that later in detail.

Split am/pm.
Dose upon waking in a fasted state is best for fat burning but if feeling tired is an issue dose light in the morning and more in the evening for example 1iu a.m./3iu p.m. If you don't get too tired after dosing and fat burning is your focus then pining more iu's in a fasted state upon waking will be what you want to aim for and in this case 3iu a.m/1iu p.m will do. If I'm not waking @ 3:30 a.m. for the purpose of fasted cardio then I set my alarm for 3a.m., have my pin loaded in my mini fridge by my bed, simply roll over, open the mini fridge, pin then I'm going right back to sleep. It literally takes me seconds and I'll actually wake just before my alarm goes off cause I'm heavily anticipating the dose. This way I wake @ 6:30 and my body is already primed and in a fat burning state. Several hours have passed since pining and I can eat a good clean breakfast which I love. In an effort to avoid building insulin desensitization you'll need to not eat for at least an hour after you dose and I prefer longer. So for your p.m. dose I do my p.m. training, immediately carb up after and I wait an hour and a half to pin my evening dose.

CTS - numbness/tingling in the hands
The ramp protocol is a slow one but I assure you if you get hit with intense CTS (numbness & tingling in your hands) you'll wish you had taken the ramp route. I've got friends who we're accustomed to the high oil volume of AAS and, in looking at a mere 4iu's, decided to jump in and go straight to 2iu morning/2iu night. Well one of em is still experiencing CTS to this day. So IME if you dive in too quickly the sides can be very persistent whereas with the ramp protocol I've never had anyone come back to me complaining about sides that persisted past the point of the increased 9 week ramp. It's obvious to me that the point in starting with GH is allowing the body time to adapt and staying ahead of the sides. GH is not like AAS guys. It's very potent and has a profound affect on our body. The first time you see 4iu's your gonna do what we all do and say "seriously that's it?" To this day it's hard for me to grasp the potency of GH.

Bac water -
I use a 23g pin and draw 1cc of Bac water. I add 1cc of air to the pin so I have a total of 2cc in the pin...1cc of Bac water and 1cc of air to equal out the pressure in the GH vial. Now take the vial of powder GH and turn it at an angle so you can poke the pin through the rubber top at an angle so the needle is against the glass. DO NOT ALLOW THE BAC WATER TO SPRAY DIRECTLY ON THE POWDER ANGLE THE NEEDLE ON THE GLASS. Now with 1cc Bac water added to now have 10iu of reconstituted GH and each line on a 1cc/ml pin is 1iu. Now the powder might not completely dissolve so DO NOT SHAKE THE VIAL IT WILL DESTROY THE GH. Simply place the vial between your hands and slowly roll your hands back and forth. It might take a few minutes but will eventually completely dissolve. Make sure ALL the powder is dissolved and reconstituted.

Administering you're GH subq
You want to follow the same cleaning process used in pining AAS. I simply pinch some fat one inch away from my belly button and it's that simple. Some will say you must pin at a slight angle but I just go straight in and I'm g2g. It's very common to get a small lump right where you pin and this will subside momentarily. IMO there's no need to aspirate when pining subq. Again some will swear you must but I've never had an issue or had anyone I've coached have an issue either.

T3/T4 supplementation

<6iu's.
Under 6 iu's I don't supplement with T4. Based on my bloods I've always been within a range I'm ok with and was happy with my recomp. We all are different tho so I'll express my position in more detail. Just know if you choose to supplement with T3/T4 bloods are a must otherwise you're at risk of losing valuable lean muscle mass.

T4 naturally converts to T3 in the case of a deficit. Exogenous GH will cause T4 to T3 conversion to accelerate. If you supplement with T3 it can easily get too high causing you to cannibalize valuable lean muscle and flatten you out. Therefore IMO supplementing T4 is more synergistic with exogenous GH. You'll see guys on GH have low T4 levels and elevated T3 so cover the lower marker and your g2g. Now if your doing a show and need to make weight then I can see the logic behind keeping T3 higher but for the average hobbyist IMO its counterproductive and wastes valuable lean muscle mass. I'm not a competitor nor am I referring to the needs of a competitor. I'm targeting the average hobbyist with this protocol because it's what I know.

>6iu's
That's not my comfort zone so I'll stay away from this and let someone else chime in. But I would assume that T4 supplementation is encouraged. The key is doing your bloodwork especially if you surpass the 6iu marker. But again I'm a below 6iu guy so take my comments on this part lightly.

I learned all this through trial/error and friends/family who have been at it for 20yrs but as always I strongly encourage you to use my comments as a reference point and do your own research. Keep grinding my brother's!!I have labs on 8iu-9iu gh so everything you just stated is spot on bro! t4 sits very low about 4.0 and my t3 uptake was around 35. My IGF levels were not as high as id like but after 3-4 iu I use a different protocol, still pinning while blood glucose is low though.

AM wake 2iu gh eat (then Xiu slin if in protocol)

Meal 2

1/2hr pre meal 3 1iu

Pre gym meal 2iu bilaterally in muscle group worked

Lift cardio 1iu GH followed by post carb then X iu slin

Meal 5

1/2hr pre bed meal 1iu GH https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180730/b72cee8a4228c8a2bd2e5badd2a010ba.jpg

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[Markas61]

I have a question about dosing frequency. First thanks Riggs. You probably saved me experiencing a lot of sides. Really never considered GH could cause many. I had been planning just dosing Monday - Friday. What are your thoughts? I will he ramping either way but financially that schedule saves me some money. Thing is, it also could waste money if its less effective.

[Riggs]

I have a question about dosing frequency. First thanks Riggs. You probably saved me experiencing a lot of sides. Really never considered GH could cause many. I had been planning just dosing Monday - Friday. What are your thoughts? I will he ramping either way but financially that schedule saves me some money. Thing is, it also could waste money if its less effective.

IMO the only time I'd skip a day or two is if I'm dosing heavy like 10iu + and in you're case, considering you're age, I'd dose ED. Shutting down you're natty GH production isn't a concern with an individual of you're age. You're GH production is little to none.

[Markas61]

OK. How about dose? I want to cut bodyfat and keep as much or add muscle as I do. Was thinking 4 but would 3 or 3.5 be good?

[Jarvis45]

Do you ever take days off while pinning GH? Like 5 on two off? Or do you pin every single day? Man I want to hop on it so bad, I’m just unsure is be able to afford it every month [emoji17]


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[Riggs]

Do you ever take days off while pinning GH? Like 5 on two off? Or do you pin every single day? Man I want to hop on it so bad, I’m just unsure is be able to afford it every month [emoji17]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The best thing to do is catch a big sale on a generic GH that's been getting great bloods. Stock up on a bunch of kits and you're g2g.

[JimmyMcFistacuff]

Great info.. always learning from you brother. Personalized question about my application.

Im at 4 iu. Handling the sides ok. I see in your application example at 4 iu. for fat reduction. You have 3 iu am fasted. and 1 iu Pm. So, I have a few questions that I waas thinking about avter reading your post.


1). IS it important to not use more than 3 iu at a time(is it an absorption thing?). Does it work better split for fat loss(min muscle building)?

2). How long after application fasted is it ok to do cardio or hit the weight room? I try to do weights fasted to burn more fat as well.

3). Subq injection around navel area is where you gave example for your inj . Is that the best place for absorption or is it ok in any subq fat in different locations?

4). Does high carb consumption negate the gh in anyway? Is it better with a keto diet, carb cycling or IF(with 45/35/20 macros)?


I think that is about all I can think of. I appreciate the insight in your response. Thx Brother.


JMcF








GH starter "ramp" protocol &
T3/T4 supplementation discussion

I was asked to throw this together and I had to do so while sitting on a leg press. Thankfully I have the gym to myself. If there's spellng and grammar problems I'll edit it later. Hopefully it's not horrible cause I'm kinda rushed...here we go.

4iu's - 5iu's
Start with 1iu for 3 weeks, ramp to 2iu for 3 weeks, 3iu for 3 weeks, 4iu for 3 weeks. 4-5 iu and less for therapeutic benefits and improved AAS benefits. If at any point CTS or swelling is an issue back off 1iu and do a 6 week ramp until sides subside. If sides persist go back to dosage that yielded no sides and ramp at 9 week intervals. The other side is feeling tired, IMO that's more an issue of timing your dose, and I'll address that later in detail.

Split am/pm.
Dose upon waking in a fasted state is best for fat burning but if feeling tired is an issue dose light in the morning and more in the evening for example 1iu a.m./3iu p.m. If you don't get too tired after dosing and fat burning is your focus then pining more iu's in a fasted state upon waking will be what you want to aim for and in this case 3iu a.m/1iu p.m will do. If I'm not waking @ 3:30 a.m. for the purpose of fasted cardio then I set my alarm for 3a.m., have my pin loaded in my mini fridge by my bed, simply roll over, open the mini fridge, pin then I'm going right back to sleep. It literally takes me seconds and I'll actually wake just before my alarm goes off cause I'm heavily anticipating the dose. This way I wake @ 6:30 and my body is already primed and in a fat burning state. Several hours have passed since pining and I can eat a good clean breakfast which I love. In an effort to avoid building insulin desensitization you'll need to not eat for at least an hour after you dose and I prefer longer. So for your p.m. dose I do my p.m. training, immediately carb up after and I wait an hour and a half to pin my evening dose.

CTS - numbness/tingling in the hands
The ramp protocol is a slow one but I assure you if you get hit with intense CTS (numbness & tingling in your hands) you'll wish you had taken the ramp route. I've got friends who we're accustomed to the high oil volume of AAS and, in looking at a mere 4iu's, decided to jump in and go straight to 2iu morning/2iu night. Well one of em is still experiencing CTS to this day. So IME if you dive in too quickly the sides can be very persistent whereas with the ramp protocol I've never had anyone come back to me complaining about sides that persisted past the point of the increased 9 week ramp. It's obvious to me that the point in starting with GH is allowing the body time to adapt and staying ahead of the sides. GH is not like AAS guys. It's very potent and has a profound affect on our body. The first time you see 4iu's your gonna do what we all do and say "seriously that's it?" To this day it's hard for me to grasp the potency of GH.

Bac water -
I use a 23g pin and draw 1cc of Bac water. I add 1cc of air to the pin so I have a total of 2cc in the pin...1cc of Bac water and 1cc of air to equal out the pressure in the GH vial. Now take the vial of powder GH and turn it at an angle so you can poke the pin through the rubber top at an angle so the needle is against the glass. DO NOT ALLOW THE BAC WATER TO SPRAY DIRECTLY ON THE POWDER ANGLE THE NEEDLE ON THE GLASS. Now with 1cc Bac water added to now have 10iu of reconstituted GH and each line on a 1cc/ml pin is 1iu. Now the powder might not completely dissolve so DO NOT SHAKE THE VIAL IT WILL DESTROY THE GH. Simply place the vial between your hands and slowly roll your hands back and forth. It might take a few minutes but will eventually completely dissolve. Make sure ALL the powder is dissolved and reconstituted.

Administering you're GH subq
You want to follow the same cleaning process used in pining AAS. I simply pinch some fat one inch away from my belly button and it's that simple. Some will say you must pin at a slight angle but I just go straight in and I'm g2g. It's very common to get a small lump right where you pin and this will subside momentarily. IMO there's no need to aspirate when pining subq. Again some will swear you must but I've never had an issue or had anyone I've coached have an issue either.

T3/T4 supplementation

<6iu's.
Under 6 iu's I don't supplement with T4. Based on my bloods I've always been within a range I'm ok with and was happy with my recomp. We all are different tho so I'll express my position in more detail. Just know if you choose to supplement with T3/T4 bloods are a must otherwise you're at risk of losing valuable lean muscle mass.

T4 naturally converts to T3 in the case of a deficit. Exogenous GH will cause T4 to T3 conversion to accelerate. If you supplement with T3 it can easily get too high causing you to cannibalize valuable lean muscle and flatten you out. Therefore IMO supplementing T4 is more synergistic with exogenous GH. You'll see guys on GH have low T4 levels and elevated T3 so cover the lower marker and your g2g. Now if your doing a show and need to make weight then I can see the logic behind keeping T3 higher but for the average hobbyist IMO its counterproductive and wastes valuable lean muscle mass. I'm not a competitor nor am I referring to the needs of a competitor. I'm targeting the average hobbyist with this protocol because it's what I know.

>6iu's
That's not my comfort zone so I'll stay away from this and let someone else chime in. But I would assume that T4 supplementation is encouraged. The key is doing your bloodwork especially if you surpass the 6iu marker. But again I'm a below 6iu guy so take my comments on this part lightly.

I learned all this through trial/error and friends/family who have been at it for 20yrs but as always I strongly encourage you to use my comments as a reference point and do your own research. Keep grinding my brother's!!

[Riggs]

1). IS it important to not use more than 3 iu at a time(is it an absorption thing?). Does it work better split for fat loss(min muscle building)?

We have better insulin sensitivity and utilization of glucose in the evening so let you're GH handle the anabolism in the morning and then throughout the night. The 3iu morning and 1iu evening I've mentioned is just an example of how to split 4iu when fat loss is a focus. So you can do a 10iu pin or as much as you want and it's g2g.

2). How long after application fasted is it ok to do cardio or hit the weight room? I try to do weights fasted to burn more fat as well.

I wake, pin immediately @ 3:45 and I'm training by 4:30.

3). Subq injection around navel area is where you gave example for your inj . Is that the best place for absorption or is it ok in any subq fat in different locations?

Any subq is g2g.

4). Does high carb consumption negate the gh in anyway? Is it better with a keto diet, carb cycling or IF(with 45/35/20 macros)?

GH has the strongest fat-burning effect when the level of sugar and insulin is low so you simply want to avoid sugar/carbs an hour b4 or after you pin. So, the best time to inject HGH is upon waking in a fasted state. If you are on cutting, it is the best time to run because for the level of free fatty acids in the blood will be very high for the next three hours, and you'll be primed for fat burning. Even if you are on bulking, you should take the first injection in the morning. The second one should be taken 6-8 hours later, when the levels of IGF-1 and HGH decrease, before going to bed instead or some like to pin the 2nd dose post w/o in the evening. As long as you're not eating an hour before or after you're g2g.

[JimmyMcFistacuff]

1). IS it important to not use more than 3 iu at a time(is it an absorption thing?). Does it work better split for fat loss(min muscle building)?

We have better insulin sensitivity and utilization of glucose in the evening so let you're GH handle the anabolism in the morning and then throughout the night. The 3iu morning and 1iu evening I've mentioned is just an example of how to split 4iu when fat loss is a focus. So you can do a 10iu pin or as much as you want and it's g2g.

2). How long after application fasted is it ok to do cardio or hit the weight room? I try to do weights fasted to burn more fat as well.

I wake, pin immediately @ 3:45 and I'm training by 4:30.

3). Subq injection around navel area is where you gave example for your inj . Is that the best place for absorption or is it ok in any subq fat in different locations?

Any subq is g2g.

4). Does high carb consumption negate the gh in anyway? Is it better with a keto diet, carb cycling or IF(with 45/35/20 macros)?

GH has the strongest fat-burning effect when the level of sugar and insulin is low so you simply want to avoid sugar/carbs an hour b4 or after you pin. So, the best time to inject HGH is upon waking in a fasted state. If you are on cutting, it is the best time to run because for the level of free fatty acids in the blood will be very high for the next three hours, and you'll be primed for fat burning. Even if you are on bulking, you should take the first injection in the morning. The second one should be taken 6-8 hours later, when the levels of IGF-1 and HGH decrease, before going to bed instead or some like to pin the 2nd dose post w/o in the evening. As long as you're not eating an hour before or after you're g2g.

Thanks brother. Just the info I needed. I want to maximize my application. Just wanted to make sure I'm not missing the best benefits...

I appreciate the time Riggs. As always, generous with your time.

JMcF

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

[Riggs]

Thanks brother. Just the info I needed. I want to maximize my application. Just wanted to make sure I'm not missing the best benefits...

I appreciate the time Riggs. As always, generous with your time.

JMcF

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

So happy to help my brother.

A lot of GH is gonna be from trial and error, you're personal goals and is individual specific. So having someone share their experience is what I value most. Pick someone who is a very serious log keeper and go with what they say. Take their experience and go do you're own homework. The pining GH schedule in relation to you're food intake is a highly debated subject. What is undeniable is you don't wanna have a carb/sugar spike right around you're pin. It can lead to insulin desensitization. So I would focus on that and then decide how often you can pin. I've actually been doing 2iu upon waking then immediately doing fasted cardio @ 4 a.m., 2iu @ 1p.m. and 2iu post workout in the evening @ 10p.m. I'm trying it out and I'm loving it.

[thekaratekid]

Thank you so much BigRigg. I was needing this brother!
GH starter "ramp" protocol &
T3/T4 supplementation discussion

I was asked to throw this together and I had to do so while sitting on a leg press. Thankfully I have the gym to myself. If there's spellng and grammar problems I'll edit it later. Hopefully it's not horrible cause I'm kinda rushed...here we go.

4iu's - 5iu's
Start with 1iu for 3 weeks, ramp to 2iu for 3 weeks, 3iu for 3 weeks, 4iu for 3 weeks. 4-5 iu and less for therapeutic benefits and improved AAS benefits. If at any point CTS or swelling is an issue back off 1iu and do a 6 week ramp until sides subside. If sides persist go back to dosage that yielded no sides and ramp at 9 week intervals. The other side is feeling tired, IMO that's more an issue of timing your dose, and I'll address that later in detail.

Split am/pm.
Dose upon waking in a fasted state is best for fat burning but if feeling tired is an issue dose light in the morning and more in the evening for example 1iu a.m./3iu p.m. If you don't get too tired after dosing and fat burning is your focus then pining more iu's in a fasted state upon waking will be what you want to aim for and in this case 3iu a.m/1iu p.m will do. If I'm not waking @ 3:30 a.m. for the purpose of fasted cardio then I set my alarm for 3a.m., have my pin loaded in my mini fridge by my bed, simply roll over, open the mini fridge, pin then I'm going right back to sleep. It literally takes me seconds and I'll actually wake just before my alarm goes off cause I'm heavily anticipating the dose. This way I wake @ 6:30 and my body is already primed and in a fat burning state. Several hours have passed since pining and I can eat a good clean breakfast which I love. In an effort to avoid building insulin desensitization you'll need to not eat for at least an hour after you dose and I prefer longer. So for your p.m. dose I do my p.m. training, immediately carb up after and I wait an hour and a half to pin my evening dose.

CTS - numbness/tingling in the hands
The ramp protocol is a slow one but I assure you if you get hit with intense CTS (numbness & tingling in your hands) you'll wish you had taken the ramp route. I've got friends who we're accustomed to the high oil volume of AAS and, in looking at a mere 4iu's, decided to jump in and go straight to 2iu morning/2iu night. Well one of em is still experiencing CTS to this day. So IME if you dive in too quickly the sides can be very persistent whereas with the ramp protocol I've never had anyone come back to me complaining about sides that persisted past the point of the increased 9 week ramp. It's obvious to me that the point in starting with GH is allowing the body time to adapt and staying ahead of the sides. GH is not like AAS guys. It's very potent and has a profound affect on our body. The first time you see 4iu's your gonna do what we all do and say "seriously that's it?" To this day it's hard for me to grasp the potency of GH.

Bac water -
I use a 23g pin and draw 1cc of Bac water. I add 1cc of air to the pin so I have a total of 2cc in the pin...1cc of Bac water and 1cc of air to equal out the pressure in the GH vial. Now take the vial of powder GH and turn it at an angle so you can poke the pin through the rubber top at an angle so the needle is against the glass. DO NOT ALLOW THE BAC WATER TO SPRAY DIRECTLY ON THE POWDER ANGLE THE NEEDLE ON THE GLASS. Now with 1cc Bac water added to now have 10iu of reconstituted GH and each line on a 1cc/ml pin is 1iu. Now the powder might not completely dissolve so DO NOT SHAKE THE VIAL IT WILL DESTROY THE GH. Simply place the vial between your hands and slowly roll your hands back and forth. It might take a few minutes but will eventually completely dissolve. Make sure ALL the powder is dissolved and reconstituted.

Administering you're GH subq
You want to follow the same cleaning process used in pining AAS. I simply pinch some fat one inch away from my belly button and it's that simple. Some will say you must pin at a slight angle but I just go straight in and I'm g2g. It's very common to get a small lump right where you pin and this will subside momentarily. IMO there's no need to aspirate when pining subq. Again some will swear you must but I've never had an issue or had anyone I've coached have an issue either.

T3/T4 supplementation

<6iu's.
Under 6 iu's I don't supplement with T4. Based on my bloods I've always been within a range I'm ok with and was happy with my recomp. We all are different tho so I'll express my position in more detail. Just know if you choose to supplement with T3/T4 bloods are a must otherwise you're at risk of losing valuable lean muscle mass.

T4 naturally converts to T3 in the case of a deficit. Exogenous GH will cause T4 to T3 conversion to accelerate. If you supplement with T3 it can easily get too high causing you to cannibalize valuable lean muscle and flatten you out. Therefore IMO supplementing T4 is more synergistic with exogenous GH. You'll see guys on GH have low T4 levels and elevated T3 so cover the lower marker and your g2g. Now if your doing a show and need to make weight then I can see the logic behind keeping T3 higher but for the average hobbyist IMO its counterproductive and wastes valuable lean muscle mass. I'm not a competitor nor am I referring to the needs of a competitor. I'm targeting the average hobbyist with this protocol because it's what I know.

>6iu's
That's not my comfort zone so I'll stay away from this and let someone else chime in. But I would assume that T4 supplementation is encouraged. The key is doing your bloodwork especially if you surpass the 6iu marker. But again I'm a below 6iu guy so take my comments on this part lightly.

I learned all this through trial/error and friends/family who have been at it for 20yrs but as always I strongly encourage you to use my comments as a reference point and do your own research. Keep grinding my brother's!!

Sent from my Z851M using Tapatalk

[JimmyMcFistacuff]

So happy to help my brother.

A lot of GH is gonna be from trial and error, you're personal goals and is individual specific. So having someone share their experience is what I value most. Pick someone who is a very serious log keeper and go with what they say. Take their experience and go do you're own homework. The pining GH schedule in relation to you're food intake is a highly debated subject. What is undeniable is you don't wanna have a carb/sugar spike right around you're pin. It can lead to insulin desensitization. So I would focus on that and then decide how often you can pin. I've actually been doing 2iu upon waking then immediately doing fasted cardio @ 4 a.m., 2iu @ 1p.m. and 2iu post workout in the evening @ 10p.m. I'm trying it out and I'm loving it.Yes.. been reading as much as I can. Following along with bros. It does help a lot

Interesting on that protocol and stretching out the injections like that. I may try to split up my 4 iu(something along that line).

Thanks as usual bro..

JMcF.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

[thekaratekid]

GH starter "ramp" protocol &
T3/T4 supplementation discussion

I was asked to throw this together and I had to do so while sitting on a leg press. Thankfully I have the gym to myself. If there's spellng and grammar problems I'll edit it later. Hopefully it's not horrible cause I'm kinda rushed...here we go.

4iu's - 5iu's
Start with 1iu for 3 weeks, ramp to 2iu for 3 weeks, 3iu for 3 weeks, 4iu for 3 weeks. 4-5 iu and less for therapeutic benefits and improved AAS benefits. If at any point CTS or swelling is an issue back off 1iu and do a 6 week ramp until sides subside. If sides persist go back to dosage that yielded no sides and ramp at 9 week intervals. The other side is feeling tired, IMO that's more an issue of timing your dose, and I'll address that later in detail.

Split am/pm.
Dose upon waking in a fasted state is best for fat burning but if feeling tired is an issue dose light in the morning and more in the evening for example 1iu a.m./3iu p.m. If you don't get too tired after dosing and fat burning is your focus then pining more iu's in a fasted state upon waking will be what you want to aim for and in this case 3iu a.m/1iu p.m will do. If I'm not waking @ 3:30 a.m. for the purpose of fasted cardio then I set my alarm for 3a.m., have my pin loaded in my mini fridge by my bed, simply roll over, open the mini fridge, pin then I'm going right back to sleep. It literally takes me seconds and I'll actually wake just before my alarm goes off cause I'm heavily anticipating the dose. This way I wake @ 6:30 and my body is already primed and in a fat burning state. Several hours have passed since pining and I can eat a good clean breakfast which I love. In an effort to avoid building insulin desensitization you'll need to not eat for at least an hour after you dose and I prefer longer. So for your p.m. dose I do my p.m. training, immediately carb up after and I wait an hour and a half to pin my evening dose.

CTS - numbness/tingling in the hands
The ramp protocol is a slow one but I assure you if you get hit with intense CTS (numbness & tingling in your hands) you'll wish you had taken the ramp route. I've got friends who we're accustomed to the high oil volume of AAS and, in looking at a mere 4iu's, decided to jump in and go straight to 2iu morning/2iu night. Well one of em is still experiencing CTS to this day. So IME if you dive in too quickly the sides can be very persistent whereas with the ramp protocol I've never had anyone come back to me complaining about sides that persisted past the point of the increased 9 week ramp. It's obvious to me that the point in starting with GH is allowing the body time to adapt and staying ahead of the sides. GH is not like AAS guys. It's very potent and has a profound affect on our body. The first time you see 4iu's your gonna do what we all do and say "seriously that's it?" To this day it's hard for me to grasp the potency of GH.

Bac water -
I use a 23g pin and draw 1cc of Bac water. I add 1cc of air to the pin so I have a total of 2cc in the pin...1cc of Bac water and 1cc of air to equal out the pressure in the GH vial. Now take the vial of powder GH and turn it at an angle so you can poke the pin through the rubber top at an angle so the needle is against the glass. DO NOT ALLOW THE BAC WATER TO SPRAY DIRECTLY ON THE POWDER ANGLE THE NEEDLE ON THE GLASS. Now with 1cc Bac water added to now have 10iu of reconstituted GH and each line on a 1cc/ml pin is 1iu. Now the powder might not completely dissolve so DO NOT SHAKE THE VIAL IT WILL DESTROY THE GH. Simply place the vial between your hands and slowly roll your hands back and forth. It might take a few minutes but will eventually completely dissolve. Make sure ALL the powder is dissolved and reconstituted.

Administering you're GH subq
You want to follow the same cleaning process used in pining AAS. I simply pinch some fat one inch away from my belly button and it's that simple. Some will say you must pin at a slight angle but I just go straight in and I'm g2g. It's very common to get a small lump right where you pin and this will subside momentarily. IMO there's no need to aspirate when pining subq. Again some will swear you must but I've never had an issue or had anyone I've coached have an issue either.

T3/T4 supplementation

<6iu's.
Under 6 iu's I don't supplement with T4. Based on my bloods I've always been within a range I'm ok with and was happy with my recomp. We all are different tho so I'll express my position in more detail. Just know if you choose to supplement with T3/T4 bloods are a must otherwise you're at risk of losing valuable lean muscle mass.

T4 naturally converts to T3 in the case of a deficit. Exogenous GH will cause T4 to T3 conversion to accelerate. If you supplement with T3 it can easily get too high causing you to cannibalize valuable lean muscle and flatten you out. Therefore IMO supplementing T4 is more synergistic with exogenous GH. You'll see guys on GH have low T4 levels and elevated T3 so cover the lower marker and your g2g. Now if your doing a show and need to make weight then I can see the logic behind keeping T3 higher but for the average hobbyist IMO its counterproductive and wastes valuable lean muscle mass. I'm not a competitor nor am I referring to the needs of a competitor. I'm targeting the average hobbyist with this protocol because it's what I know.

>6iu's
That's not my comfort zone so I'll stay away from this and let someone else chime in. But I would assume that T4 supplementation is encouraged. The key is doing your bloodwork especially if you surpass the 6iu marker. But again I'm a below 6iu guy so take my comments on this part lightly.

I learned all this through trial/error and friends/family who have been at it for 20yrs but as always I strongly encourage you to use my comments as a reference point and do your own research. Keep grinding my brother's!!Thank you so much BigRigg. I was needing this brother!

Sent from my Z851M using Tapatalk

[Riggs]

You can reduce the ramp. I just did my ramp in 2 week intervals. But you gotta remember when laying out a protocol like this it's being laid out for everyone so I must give the safest protocol. I go laying out what I do then lots of rookies are gonna be pm'ng me saying their ankles are swollen huge, their hands are going numb and they are a walking zombie.


Yes.. been reading as much as I can. Following along with bros. It does help a lot

Interesting on that protocol and stretching out the injections like that. I may try to split up my 4 iu(something along that line).

Thanks as usual bro..

JMcF.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

[JimmyMcFistacuff]

You can reduce the ramp. I just did my ramp in 2 week intervals. But you gotta remember when laying out a protocol like this it's being laid out for everyone so I must give the safest protocol. I go laying out what I do then lots of rookies are gonna be pm'ng me saying their ankles are swollen huge, their hands are going numb and they are a walking zombie.True.. Brotherhood of the Walking Dead.


JMcF

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

[Riggs]

True.. Brotherhood of the Walking Dead.


JMcF

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

Oh man bro I'm sleeping so deeply in spite of being on Tren. It's so cool not having Trensomnia.

I have started a new protocol with GH. It's totally new so I'm gonna be documenting everything. I'm pining 3iu GH just after my p.m. training. I usually carb up with @ 1/2 cup which is @70g but now I'll be pining GH immediately and waiting to eat for 1.5 hours. I'm on a recomp so I'm happy with my current weight of 228 now I wanna cut more fat. I'm 13.6 as of last night and want to be inside 11% asap. I dropped 3% in 3 weeks with pining 3iu and immediately doing fasted cardio @ 4a.m. and doing strength training in the evening.

Should be fun.....

[JimmyMcFistacuff]

Oh man bro I'm sleeping so deeply in spite of being on Tren. It's so cool not having Trensomnia.

I have started a new protocol with GH. It's totally new so I'm gonna be documenting everything. I'm pining 3iu GH just after my p.m. training. I usually carb up with @ 1/2 cup which is @70g but now I'll be pining GH immediately and waiting to eat for 1.5 hours. I'm on a recomp so I'm happy with my current weight of 228 now I wanna cut more fat. I'm 13.6 as of last night and want to be inside 11% asap. I dropped 3% in 3 weeks with pining 3iu and immediately doing fasted cardio @ 4a.m. and doing strength training in the evening.

Should be fun.....Ok. That is different. I would like to know how it is going. So, if your documenting it or doing a log. Let me know, I will follow. I just moved up to 4iu last week. I think I may drop back to original plan of the 3.33ed. For me it's about fat loss. Still stumbling on diet a little. Got to get that right, don't want to waste gh. I do training in am fasted, take gh 1.5 hours before training. But, I can change if this new protocol works better for fat loss(after training).


You are right about sleep. I am having very vivid dreams. Not too crazy.


JMcF.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

[Riggs]

Ok. That is different. I would like to know how it is going. So, if your documenting it or doing a log. Let me know, I will follow. I just moved up to 4iu last week. I think I may drop back to original plan of the 3.33ed. For me it's about fat loss. Still stumbling on diet a little. Got to get that right, don't want to waste gh. I do training in am fasted, take gh 1.5 hours before training. But, I can change if this new protocol works better for fat loss(after training).


You are right about sleep. I am having very vivid dreams. Not too crazy.


JMcF.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

Man it was rough yesterday bro. That shit sucked. I'm accustomed to eating 1/2 cup up of rice immediately and without it and GH I was dog tired man. It was a serious drag. We shall see if I can last.

[JimmyMcFistacuff]

Man it was rough yesterday bro. That shit sucked. I'm accustomed to eating 1/2 cup up of rice immediately and without it and GH I was dog tired man. It was a serious drag. We shall see if I can last.Haha. I take a nap every day about 2 hours after the gym. I cant go without one. So tired cant stay awake. I tried t4 to help but I felt flat after like 3 or 4 days of use.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

[Alexisdalton1230]

I was on a different hgh from a sponsor on BOP and at 3ius twice daily no sides at all switched back to this hgh and man my hands and wrist are hurting get numbness in my fingers and starting to lean up in 2 weeks. I take t4 with my hgh and I notice that I’m not as tired and I’m sleeping a lot better. I’ve learned not to stray away from Victory as all there products have been spot on. My girls does 1iu of hgh and she wakes up with numbness in her hands.

[Oldskool]

Wow. This is great! Ive been doing the process for years and don't really feel they are working as well anymore and was bt too switch over to the hgh.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

[Oldskool]

Yeah. Figured

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

[JimmyMcFistacuff]

Oh man bro I'm sleeping so deeply in spite of being on Tren. It's so cool not having Trensomnia.

I have started a new protocol with GH. It's totally new so I'm gonna be documenting everything. I'm pining 3iu GH just after my p.m. training. I usually carb up with @ 1/2 cup which is @70g but now I'll be pining GH immediately and waiting to eat for 1.5 hours. I'm on a recomp so I'm happy with my current weight of 228 now I wanna cut more fat. I'm 13.6 as of last night and want to be inside 11% asap. I dropped 3% in 3 weeks with pining 3iu and immediately doing fasted cardio @ 4a.m. and doing strength training in the evening.

Should be fun.....Anything on this ^^ change so far?


JMcF

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

[Riggs]

Anything on this ^^ change so far?


JMcF

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

Oh yah that's a definite no go. I was fucking starving and felt so depleted. Uh uh no more. I'm back to hitting the carbs the moment I'm done.

[JimmyMcFistacuff]

Oh yah that's a definite no go. I was fucking starving and felt so depleted. Uh uh no more. I'm back to hitting the carbs the moment I'm done.Haha. I hear ya.


JMcF

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

[leftkz]

Thanks Riggs. Started GH today and will be using this protocol.

[Riggs]

Thanks Riggs. Started GH today and will be using this protocol.

How did the vacuum seal situation play out? You do it how we discussed?

[leftkz]

How did the vacuum seal situation play out? You do it how we discussed?

It went okay. It's crazy how strong that vacuum is, I was not expecting it to be THAT strong. I held the plunger and everything, but it still managed to suck out all the bac water even with the plunger held. Luckily you gave me that tip about angling at the glass wall so it didn't hit any of the powder.

[Riggs]

It went okay. It's crazy how strong that vacuum is, I was not expecting it to be THAT strong. I held the plunger and everything, but it still managed to suck out all the bac water even with the plunger held. Luckily you gave me that tip about angling at the glass wall so it didn't hit any of the powder.

Well good you managed and learned at the same time. Good for you bud.....enjoy the ride.

[leftkz]

Well good you managed and learned at the same time. Good for you bud.....enjoy the ride.

Thanks Riggs!

Meanwhile... Waiting for more money to order GH. I'm beginning to believe that the only con of HGH is the cost. Hurts the wallet quite a bit haha.

[HalleHood]

Wanted to know about hgh and it was right in this Subforum all along

[bigjo]

Good info brother thanks

[Riggs]

Guys I've been off GH/Slin for @ a yr now.

I had been on for several yrs and planned the extended time off.

Looking forward to getting back on soon as I'm physically ready.

Anyone currently running GH?

[Popeye*]

Guys I've been off GH/Slin for @ a yr now.

I had been on for several yrs and planned the extended time off.

Looking forward to getting back on soon as I'm physically ready.

Anyone currently running GH?

This guy [emoji123] and I was just lookin through this for the T4 info [emoji1360]

[Riggs]

This guy [emoji123] and I was just lookin through this for the T4 info [emoji1360]

If ya wanna cut weight, including lean muscle, then elevating T3 is an option.

As of late, and different than a few yrs back, bloods have confirmed I've experienced a much higher rate of T4 to T3 conversion. Maybe age, maybe better GH, maybe less T as I 2yrs ago ran 750mg - 1g of T all the time, I'm not sure. I need more time on, more time logging, and hopefully I can identify the cause.

I don't see it as a bad thing. Just want to know it's how my head works.

[Popeye*]

If ya wanna cut weight, including lean muscle, then elevating T3 is an option.

As of late, and different than a few yrs back, bloods have confirmed I've experienced a much higher rate of T4 to T3 conversion. Maybe age, maybe better GH, maybe less T as I 2yrs ago ran 750mg - 1g of T all the time, I'm not sure. I need more time on, more time logging, and hopefully I can identify the cause.

I don't see it as a bad thing. Just want to know it's how my head works.

Interesting and pretty damn cool ur still at it. Ur the master of ur life and boy do u have some fuqn experience.

Seems that one has to sacrifice lean muscle when adding T3? Just for a boost in metabolism and increased fat loss?

[Riggs]

Interesting and pretty damn cool ur still at it. Ur the master of ur life and boy do u have some fuqn experience.

Seems that one has to sacrifice lean muscle when adding T3? Just for a boost in metabolism and increased fat loss?

Honestly all that trial & fucking error is what has driven me to contribute to BOP from day 1. I hate seeing guys go thru shit when I know how to avoid it. But guys gotta learn the hard way ya know. I know I did. For example until you try Halo/Sdrol/Tren base for pwo you don't fully understand the rage it incites.

I can say that IME the catabolic effects of T3 cause a noticeable loss in fat free mass as well as body fat. Every time I've run T3 I've lost that full look but it did help offset daytime lethargy. My suggestion Pop is to experiment with regular bloods. Keep one hella detailed log and adjust accordingly. But yes T3 is catabolic, the rate of T4 to T3 conversion is accelerated with exogenous GH, so unless looking to cut weight I'd cover T4 and go from there.

I also knew I was taking too much T3 because my heart would race and when i would lay down to sleep I could hear my heart pounding in my ears.

Maybe I'm hyper sensitive to T3 but I do recall reading a published journal in the Oxford Academic Journals that showed T3 administration yielded similar loss of lean muscle and body fat at supraphysiological doses.

Again I'm not well versed on this aspect of GH use but I'm happy to share my experiences with T3 supplementation.

My Dad is an old school washed up BB'r and long time user of GH so I can always pass along a question and relay his input.

[thebear]

This entire thread is[emoji383] !!!!

[StayFocused1313]

Thank you for this thread Riggs.


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[Riggs]

Thank you for this thread Riggs.


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You're welcome SF.
I view BOP as a place for all of us to journal, log, or document our journey. The view and habits I had 4yrs ago might be different today. We're constantly changing and here we have the opportunity to experience acceptance and have the ability to take this journey together with like minded individuals.

I deeply appreciate the brotberhood.

[StayFocused1313]

You're welcome SF.
I view BOP as a place for all of us to journal, log, or document our journey. The view and habits I had 4yrs ago might be different today. We're constantly changing and here we have the opportunity to experience acceptance and have the ability to take this journey together with like minded individuals.

I deeply appreciate the brotberhood.

My man. I also deeply value/appreciate the Brotherhood. It’s changed my life. The learning process is one of my favorites, life’s a journey and if we’re not open to learning and adapting to the beautiful gift we’ve been given what are we doing, you know? I believe here sometime in the next year I’ll fire off a SF log to hopefully help new guys like I was 2 years ago, like you helped me I hope to help others. Thanks brother.


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[Klinkster]

Haha well I didn’t do the ramp and now I’m wishing I would have. I jumped straight to 2ius am and 2ius pm.. and the numbness and cts suhhhhhks!!
Great read tho and I appreciate the helpful info!

[Madmatt13]

Great Thread, super useful! Thanks Riggs!

[Riggs]

@Klinkster @StayFocused1313 @Madmatt13

You're welcome guys. If I can help others avoid the trial and fucking error I've had to endure then I'm happy as fuck to do so.

[Caustic Charm]

My man. I also deeply value/appreciate the Brotherhood. It’s changed my life. The learning process is one of my favorites, life’s a journey and if we’re not open to learning and adapting to the beautiful gift we’ve been given what are we doing, you know? I believe here sometime in the next year I’ll fire off a SF log to hopefully help new guys like I was 2 years ago, like you helped me I hope to help others. Thanks brother.


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Same here. I joined in an effort to find out how to brew my own. Before I even got to post a thought of my own, most of the things I’d been told about AAS got debunked. There’s a reason they have the board rules about newbies not posting cause this place is a wealth of info. Best to read instead of talk :)


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[StayFocused1313]

Same here. I joined in an effort to find out how to brew my own. Before I even got to post a thought of my own, most of the things I’d been told about AAS got debunked. There’s a reason they have the board rules about newbies not posting cause this place is a wealth of info. Best to read instead of talk :)


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Most my time is just spent reading and re reading all the knowledge here. I’d venture to say 99% of anyone’s questions, the answers can be found within these walls just using the search button. Where else can you read the thoughts on experiences of people with 10-30 years of trial and error experience with aas. It’s pretty damn incredible and to the right mindset it’s priceless. Respect brother Caustic.


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[Caustic Charm]

Most my time is just spent reading and re reading all the knowledge here. I’d venture to say 99% of anyone’s questions, the answers can be found within these walls just using the search button. Where else can you read the thoughts on experiences of people with 10-30 years of trial and error experience with aas. It’s pretty damn incredible and to the right mindset it’s priceless. Respect brother Caustic.


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Absolutely my man :)


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[Tweeter2oo7]

GH starter "ramp" protocol &
T3/T4 supplementation discussion

I was asked to throw this together and I had to do so while sitting on a leg press. Thankfully I have the gym to myself. If there's spellng and grammar problems I'll edit it later. Hopefully it's not horrible cause I'm kinda rushed...here we go.

4iu's - 5iu's
Start with 1iu for 3 weeks, ramp to 2iu for 3 weeks, 3iu for 3 weeks, 4iu for 3 weeks. 4-5 iu and less for therapeutic benefits and improved AAS benefits. If at any point CTS or swelling is an issue back off 1iu and do a 6 week ramp until sides subside. If sides persist go back to dosage that yielded no sides and ramp at 9 week intervals. The other side is feeling tired, IMO that's more an issue of timing your dose, and I'll address that later in detail.

Split am/pm.
Dose upon waking in a fasted state is best for fat burning but if feeling tired is an issue dose light in the morning and more in the evening for example 1iu a.m./3iu p.m. If you don't get too tired after dosing and fat burning is your focus then pining more iu's in a fasted state upon waking will be what you want to aim for and in this case 3iu a.m/1iu p.m will do. If I'm not waking @ 3:30 a.m. for the purpose of fasted cardio then I set my alarm for 3a.m., have my pin loaded in my mini fridge by my bed, simply roll over, open the mini fridge, pin then I'm going right back to sleep. It literally takes me seconds and I'll actually wake just before my alarm goes off cause I'm heavily anticipating the dose. This way I wake @ 6:30 and my body is already primed and in a fat burning state. Several hours have passed since pining and I can eat a good clean breakfast which I love. In an effort to avoid building insulin desensitization you'll need to not eat for at least an hour after you dose and I prefer longer. So for your p.m. dose I do my p.m. training, immediately carb up after and I wait an hour and a half to pin my evening dose.

CTS - numbness/tingling in the hands
The ramp protocol is a slow one but I assure you if you get hit with intense CTS (numbness & tingling in your hands) you'll wish you had taken the ramp route. I've got friends who we're accustomed to the high oil volume of AAS and, in looking at a mere 4iu's, decided to jump in and go straight to 2iu morning/2iu night. Well one of em is still experiencing CTS to this day. So IME if you dive in too quickly the sides can be very persistent whereas with the ramp protocol I've never had anyone come back to me complaining about sides that persisted past the point of the increased 9 week ramp. It's obvious to me that the point in starting with GH is allowing the body time to adapt and staying ahead of the sides. GH is not like AAS guys. It's very potent and has a profound affect on our body. The first time you see 4iu's your gonna do what we all do and say "seriously that's it?" To this day it's hard for me to grasp the potency of GH.

Bac water -
I use a 23g pin and draw 1cc of Bac water. I add 1cc of air to the pin so I have a total of 2cc in the pin...1cc of Bac water and 1cc of air to equal out the pressure in the GH vial. Now take the vial of powder GH and turn it at an angle so you can poke the pin through the rubber top at an angle so the needle is against the glass. DO NOT ALLOW THE BAC WATER TO SPRAY DIRECTLY ON THE POWDER ANGLE THE NEEDLE ON THE GLASS. Now with 1cc Bac water added to now have 10iu of reconstituted GH and each line on a 1cc/ml pin is 1iu. Now the powder might not completely dissolve so DO NOT SHAKE THE VIAL IT WILL DESTROY THE GH. Simply place the vial between your hands and slowly roll your hands back and forth. It might take a few minutes but will eventually completely dissolve. Make sure ALL the powder is dissolved and reconstituted.

Administering you're GH subq
You want to follow the same cleaning process used in pining AAS. I simply pinch some fat one inch away from my belly button and it's that simple. Some will say you must pin at a slight angle but I just go straight in and I'm g2g. It's very common to get a small lump right where you pin and this will subside momentarily. IMO there's no need to aspirate when pining subq. Again some will swear you must but I've never had an issue or had anyone I've coached have an issue either.

T3/T4 supplementation

<6iu's.
Under 6 iu's I don't supplement with T4. Based on my bloods I've always been within a range I'm ok with and was happy with my recomp. We all are different tho so I'll express my position in more detail. Just know if you choose to supplement with T3 bloods are a must to monitor T3 levels otherwise you're at risk of losing valuable lean muscle mass.

T4 naturally converts to T3 in the case of a deficit. Exogenous GH will cause T4 to T3 conversion to accelerate. If you supplement with T3 it can easily get too high causing you to cannibalize valuable lean muscle and flatten you out. Therefore IMO supplementing T4 is more synergistic with exogenous GH. You'll see guys on GH have low T4 levels and elevated T3 so cover the lower marker and your g2g. Now if your doing a show and need to make weight then I can see the logic behind keeping T3 higher but for the average hobbyist IMO its counterproductive and wastes valuable lean muscle mass. I'm not a competitor nor am I referring to the needs of a competitor. I'm targeting the average hobbyist with this protocol because it's what I know.

>6iu's
That's not my comfort zone so I'll stay away from this and let someone else chime in. But I would assume that T4 supplementation is encouraged. The key is doing your bloodwork especially if you surpass the 6iu marker. But again I'm a below 6iu guy so take my comments on this part lightly.

I learned all this through trial/error and friends/family who have been at it for 20yrs but as always I strongly encourage you to use my comments as a reference point and
do your own research.

Keep grinding my brother's!!

Super helpful riggs! I have been trying to study t3/t4 and that made it simple for me.


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[Riggs]

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