DHT question

[SpikeHyzer]

Done the research regarding DHT's, I've winstrol, lowering estrogen therefore lowering natural pain killing properties of our bodies and want to experiment with adding NPP to negate these properties (joint pain...) Given to each his own what are your experiences with these two compounds? Planning on 2 weeks 25mg winny, ramp up to 2 weeks 50mg winny allthewhile 100mg NPP eod. Thoughts from experienced users appreciated.

6'4"
240lbs
~10%bf
train 3-4 days per week
42yo
trt 200 mg test c per week

[Ironmind83]

If you're using the NPP solely for joint pain I would suggest using Deca. There are a few studies you can read up on where they only dosed people at 100mg a week and it proved to provide a lot of relief for the test subjects. For myself when I've run npp I didn't really notice any joint relief at the same dose as you. When I run Deca however I definitely noticed a sifference.

[Shawn4425]

Second this, I never got any joint relief from NPP. And on a side note if your having joint pain, besides the obvious of getting checked out, you may want to avoid Winstrol, from what I've heard it plays hell on joints

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[Riggs]

I have my own opinion but for the sake of conversation I'm curious what you know to be the difference in Deca and NPP?


If you're using the NPP solely for joint pain I would suggest using Deca. There are a few studies you can read up on where they only dosed people at 100mg a week and it proved to provide a lot of relief for the test subjects. For myself when I've run npp I didn't really notice any joint relief at the same dose as you. When I run Deca however I definitely noticed a sifference.


Second this, I never got any joint relief from NPP. And on a side note if your having joint pain, besides the obvious of getting checked out, you may want to avoid Winstrol, from what I've heard it plays hell on joints

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[Riggs]

Here's an interesting NCBI read from 2016 on Nandrolone.

Beyond testosterone cypionate: evidence behind the use of nandrolone in male health and wellness (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4837307/)

Seems apparent that preventing the down regulation of Nandrolone to
5α-dihydro-19-nortestosterone is paramount to successful use.

How do we do this? Dose as low as possible in an attempt to avoid diminishing returns? A good practice with all AAS but in this case I focus on something else.

Finasteride.

Finasteride stops the conversion of Nandrolone to DHN.

[Shawn4425]

I have my own opinion but for the sake of conversation I'm curious what you know to be the difference in Deca and NPP?Absolutely nothing other then halfife. I can only share my experience. I just personally didnt receive any joint relief from NPP and I've never ran Deca. As I've read around, anecdotally I've only ever heard people saying they get joint relief from Deca. Not sure why this is true.

Can you help explain why people always say they get relief from Deca and not NPP. Even at doses as low as 200mg per week I've heard guys adding it to their TRT for relief.

But I also noticed I had very minimal water retention on NPP. Yet I hear people saying all the time they get bloat form it.

Highly personalized just like most other aspects of AAS life I guess.

What are your thoughts?

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[Shawn4425]

Here's an interesting NCBI read from 2016 on Nandrolone.

Beyond testosterone cypionate: evidence behind the use of nandrolone in male health and wellness (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4837307/)

Seems apparent that preventing the down regulation of Nandrolone to
5α-dihydro-19-nortestosterone is paramount to successful use.

How do we do this? Dose as low as possible in an attempt to avoid diminishing returns? A good practice with all AAS but in this case I focus on something else.

Finasteride.

Finasteride stops the conversion of Nandrolone to DHN.This is another thing I'm interested in but haven't tried. You always hear do much crap about finasteride. But I do have a premonition I down regulate To DHT heavily. Maybe in turn I down regulate to DHN as well. But i live NPP


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[Shawn4425]

Here's an interesting NCBI read from 2016 on Nandrolone.

Beyond testosterone cypionate: evidence behind the use of nandrolone in male health and wellness (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4837307/)

Seems apparent that preventing the down regulation of Nandrolone to
5α-dihydro-19-nortestosterone is paramount to successful use.

How do we do this? Dose as low as possible in an attempt to avoid diminishing returns? A good practice with all AAS but in this case I focus on something else.

Finasteride.

Finasteride stops the conversion of Nandrolone to DHN.So from what the minimal studies on nandrolone state, is that their is no proof of joint healing. Yet everyone in the bodybuilding world says it does. I wonder why this is.

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[grh725]

I run test and Deca a lot and i love Deca. I had shoulder surgery on my right shoulder in 1996 from playing college football and without Deca my shoulder is really sore after lifting especially from bench press. I would describe the soreness as if you threw 50 baseballs hard and you havent thrown a baseball in 20 years. Your shoulder would be hurting like that the next day. When I take Deca I have very little soreness sometimes none at all. I think this stuff is amazing. No other AAS does this for me. Same thing with my knee. I just have some arthritis in my knee, with Deca it doesn't bother me at all.I can jog and do sprints while on it. Without I am limping some days after workouts. I feel it works like an anti inflammotory and with the increased joint lubrication and collagen synthesis . I dont feel like it heals anything because when I come off the drug the aches and pains return after it clears your body.

[helljak13]

Been waiting to try deca. Got some sitting at home. I'm excited to try it to see if it will help with my joints and build some muscle. Thanks for sharing your experience.

[Shawn4425]

I run test and Deca a lot and i love Deca. I had shoulder surgery on my right shoulder in 1996 from playing college football and without Deca my shoulder is really sore after lifting especially from bench press. I would describe the soreness as if you threw 50 baseballs hard and you havent thrown a baseball in 20 years. Your shoulder would be hurting like that the next day. When I take Deca I have very little soreness sometimes none at all. I think this stuff is amazing. No other AAS does this for me. Same thing with my knee. I just have some arthritis in my knee, with Deca it doesn't bother me at all.I can jog and do sprints while on it. Without I am limping some days after workouts. I feel it works like an anti inflammotory and with the increased joint lubrication and collagen synthesis . I dont feel like it heals anything because when I come off the drug the aches and pains return after it clears your body.I hear ya. But my question would be then what is the difference between Deca and NPP. They are the same compound but different esters. Yet I e is said to have zero effect on joint pain and the other is. Also why is local administration of nandrolone detrimental to healing while systematic administration may offer relief

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[grh725]

I have never ran NPP so I cant speak on it. I have ran Deca a lot. From what I read of the two, They are supposed to give the exact same results, just NPP doing it faster. But as we all know these compounds can effect people in different ways.

[grh725]

I will have to run NPP soon. I am curious now and would like to see what the difference is

[TheMack]

I have no experience with NPP but deca keeps my knees lubed. Big difference for me with deca versus without.

[thebear]

Can you elaborate? Is this your first cycle?

I could be wrong but I feel you are running things low and short because you don’t have enough or enough money for longer? If true save more and wait till you can really go for it.
Focus on diet, and twining.

So 4 weeks of Winny and that’s it?

I would increase the test to at least 500mg and keep the NPP where it’s at which is approx 300mg. I use NPP quite often and it does nothing for my joints, that’s all I can say.

Might want to grab p5p for the NPP just in case and run 50-100mg every night.