Gonna do my 1st Tren cycle soon.

[NewSchool82]

I’ve got some Tren A on hand. Plus test cyp. I’m on TRT right now. I think I wanna start off with a short cycle that way if the sides bother me to much I can cut it off without feeling too Much of a pussy for stopping. So what doses would you recommend to begin with? Also I’ve seen people pin everyday and eod. Does it really make a difference?

[jimbosmith316]

I’ve got some Tren A on hand. Plus test cyp. I’m on TRT right now. I think I wanna start off with a short cycle that way if the sides bother me to much I can cut it off without feeling too Much of a pussy for stopping. So what doses would you recommend to begin with? Also I’ve seen people pin everyday and eod. Does it really make a difference?Great part about tren a it will clear your system much faster than the other esters. So if you start having sides you don't want within a few days you should be good.

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[cherrybombfitnes]

Eod is fine. This isn’t your first cycle is it? Do you have all your ancillaries handy?


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[NewSchool82]

No it’s not my first cycle. I’ve got arimidex on hand. What else do I need? I picked up nolvadex when I was on a deca cycle. Had zero issues and never used it.

[chadmack282]

I suggest 30mg ED

[SloppyJ]

I'd strongly recommend ED pins. It helps me mitigate the sides. 30-50mg ED would be a good first run. Hell I've done a few tren runs and I'm only doing 50mg ED right now. It's a strong compound.

[x factor]

I’m two weeks into the exact same thing and am 100mg Test C every 3.5 days, 12.5 mg adex EOD, and started with 25mg tren a ED. I’ll probably move to 40mg ED as so far I’m wxperiencing absolutely zero negative sides.
Shooting for bloods week after next to see test, E2, prolactin, IGF, and thyroid.


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[Drillit]

I suggest 30mg ED

This. Sides are nearly non existent micro dosing ED.

[SloppyJ]

I’m two weeks into the exact same thing and am 100mg Test C every 3.5 days, 12.5 mg adex EOD, and started with 25mg tren a ED. I’ll probably move to 40mg ED as so far I’m wxperiencing absolutely zero negative sides.
Shooting for bloods week after next to see test, E2, prolactin, IGF, and thyroid.


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Do you normally take an AI for that low of a dose of test?

[x factor]

Do you normally take an AI for that low of a dose of test?

Unfortunately, I have to. My E2 seems to get a little too high without it.


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[murph]

50mg EOD

[NewSchool82]

Y’all pin with slin needles?

[cherrybombfitnes]

No it’s not my first cycle. I’ve got arimidex on hand. What else do I need? I picked up nolvadex when I was on a deca cycle. Had zero issues and never used it.

You need to have caber on hand just like deca. Nolvadex is not what you want. If you don’t have issues then great, but nolvadex can actually make prolactin worse in some cases and it is not a prolactin inhibitor or dopamine agonist. Cabergoline or pramipexole, but prami has a few bad sides.


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[cherrybombfitnes]

I’m two weeks into the exact same thing and am 100mg Test C every 3.5 days, 12.5 mg adex EOD, and started with 25mg tren a ED. I’ll probably move to 40mg ED as so far I’m wxperiencing absolutely zero negative sides.
Shooting for bloods week after next to see test, E2, prolactin, IGF, and thyroid.


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25mg is a nice low-mild dose. That’s why you aren’t having sides. 40mg is nearly doubling it. Just my 2 cents but wouldn’t it be better to go up like 25% first?


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[cherrybombfitnes]

Y’all pin with slin needles?

I do. Best way to go hands down.


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[SloppyJ]

Unfortunately, I have to. My E2 seems to get a little too high without it.


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Right on man. At least it sounds like you have it dialed in. I'm on that same dose and so far my e2 has always been in the middle of the range.

[cyberninja]

You need to have caber on hand just like deca. Nolvadex is not what you want. If you don’t have issues then great, but nolvadex can actually make prolactin worse in some cases and it is not a prolactin inhibitor or dopamine agonist. Cabergoline or pramipexole, but prami has a few bad sides.


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THIS!! Caber is best to have in hand whenever running tren or other 19-nors to keep prolactin controlled. You don’t want prolactin getting crazy as this can cause gyno , lactation, or a dick that don’t work


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[yoshi925]

You need to have caber on hand just like deca. Nolvadex is not what you want. If you don’t have issues then great, but nolvadex can actually make prolactin worse in some cases and it is not a prolactin inhibitor or dopamine agonist. Cabergoline or pramipexole, but prami has a few bad sides.


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Nolvadex does not make it worst while on tren. That’s a myth. I’m on currently running 10mg nolvadex 3 times a week while running tren and test. That’s so estrogen doesn’t bind to my receptors as I am prone to gyno from test and I also take caber .5 mg every 3 days to control prolactin

[Radman69]

25-50mgs EVERYDAY is a suggested first dose for Tren A

also.. if your in a relationship..
hang tight brove..
its gonna get a lil rocky..

[cherrybombfitnes]

Nolvadex does not make it worst while on tren. That’s a myth. I’m on currently running 10mg nolvadex 3 times a week while running tren and test. That’s so estrogen doesn’t bind to my receptors as I am prone to gyno from test and I also take caber .5 mg every 3 days to control prolactin

It’s not a myth it just doesn’t effect everyone the same way. PLUS YOU are taking caber with it which would eliminate your prolactin so of course you aren’t going to notice that. It doesn’t make it a myth just because it doesn’t do that for you specifically. That’s why we should all be careful what advice we throw out to random people. Nolvadex CAN make prolactin receptors more sensitive. Nolvadex is an extremely outdated drug and is neither an AI, nor a prolactin inhibiting drug. Yes it can work for estrogen but it’s taking the long way around a simple problem.


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[cherrybombfitnes]

Comparative effects of tamoxifen and bromocriptine on prolactin and pituitary weight in estradiol-treated male rats. - PubMed - NCBI (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/6697292/)

The effect of tamoxifen on GH and PRL secretion by human pituitary tumors | SpringerLink (https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF03349368)


[emoji1312]like I said, for some it works and for some it sucks


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[Big ragu]

I’m 3 weeks into my first tren run and I’m running 400mg/week, pinning everyday. I have almost zero sides, so far it’s been a great cycle. 200mg of test/week.

[TKC432]

I am currently one day shy of 3 weeks into my first tren run too. Pinning 50mg ED has kept the sides to a minimum. Mild trensomnia and a lot of sweating is about it for me thus far. I don't really attribute the sweating to the tren so much as I run hot in the evenings when I am on just about any AAS. Listen to the advice here about having Caber on hand ...

[Bigdaddyperk]

Ahhh...cutin your tren teeth aye lol....hopefully youve done all your research...have everything on hand...ai..caber...etc...just take it slow and steady dont go doubling it up after a few weeks just cuz you not necessarily having any sides.... there are the standard protocols...#test to tren ratios etc....but you will need to assess what best suits you ...as far as caber and ai as well...myself prefer lower test higher tren..and i only use aromasin and caber now and then or if needed...but always have on hand...good luck bro...you need anything feel free to hit me up..BIGPERKS..[emoji41]

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[NewSchool82]

Well I definitely don’t have caber. Guess I need to find some. Anyone sell it without having to spend a minimum? I’m stocked up on just about everything.

[Bigdaddyperk]

Well I definitely don’t have caber. Guess I need to find some. Anyone sell it without having to spend a minimum? I’m stocked up on just about everything.We are exspecting it anyday ..and no min...keep your eye out for my announcment bro

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[yoshi925]

It’s not a myth it just doesn’t effect everyone the same way. PLUS YOU are taking caber with it which would eliminate your prolactin so of course you aren’t going to notice that. It doesn’t make it a myth just because it doesn’t do that for you specifically. That’s why we should all be careful what advice we throw out to random people. Nolvadex CAN make prolactin receptors more sensitive. Nolvadex is an extremely outdated drug and is neither an AI, nor a prolactin inhibiting drug. Yes it can work for estrogen but it’s taking the long way around a simple problem.


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Of course I have to take caber while on tren to control prolactin from an over active thyroid. LoL how else am I suppose to control prolactin?

You do understand that testosterone gyno and tren gyno are two different things right?

If you’re prone to gyno from both test and tren then you need to take both nolvadex and caber.

[yoshi925]

Comparative effects of tamoxifen and bromocriptine on prolactin and pituitary weight in estradiol-treated male rats. - PubMed - NCBI (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/6697292/)

The effect of tamoxifen on GH and PRL secretion by human pituitary tumors | SpringerLink (https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF03349368)


[emoji1312]like I said, for some it works and for some it sucks


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I found this. Maybe a good read and maybe not. It’s up to you to do your own research but from my experience and many of my friends, taking nolvadex doesn’t make gyno worst. However there are some people who claim it does get worst but to flat out say it will make it worst is false.

“All credits goes to RJ
For some reason over the last year or so, all i have seen on this board (as I don't visit others) is how devastating it is to use Tamoxifen with 19nors. Now, before we get into this, I don't wanna hear a bunch of parroted shit from people who have no experience with it. I have used Tamoxifen personally while using deca (http://www.decainfo.com/) and tren (http://www.finainfo.net/) and had no issues with the supposed problems that have said to arisen in the past year or so. I have also done loads of reading on it. So lets have a healthy debate shall we? Humdiddly, feel free to use all the big words you like... as long as I understand them. lol

Now, here is what my research tells me. Tamoxifen is a mixed ER agonist/antagonist.

In some tissues, such as the endometrium (uterus), upregulation of the progesterone receptor would be expected, as the endometrium is very sensitive to estrogen. This is where i believe there is confusion.

In other tissues, such as the breast, Tamoxifen is an antagonist (blocks the ER). The progesterone receptor is synthesized in response to estrogen. So when the ER is blocked (in breast tissue), the progesterone receptor will also down regulate. This is what happens in cancer patients and we're no different.

Therefore, Tamoxifen will help reduce gyno even when using tren (http://www.finainfo.net/) or deca (http://www.decainfo.com/), not make it worse.

Now, Tamoxifen will down regulate the progesterone receptor in breast tissue. Some "guru's" state Tamoxifen will up regulate the progesterone receptor and cause or lead to gyno. By either worsening estrogenic gyno or by itself. They, therefore, assume Tamoxifen CANT be used with deca (http://www.decainfo.com/) or tren (http://www.finainfo.net/), but this is false.

Now, some of you may be confused about gyno. Maybe this will help.

You can get gyno (it seems) 3 ways. First off, from estrogen. Second, from progesterone alone, or progesterone making estrogenic gyno worse. And finally, from prolactin.

Tamoxifen can be used to treat gyno from either deca (http://www.decainfo.com/) or tren (http://www.finainfo.net/), whether it be from estrogen or progesterone. BUT Tamoxifen CANNOT treat prolactin induced gyno. But can treat estrogenic gyno or progestenic gyno (if that exists).

deca (http://www.decainfo.com/) and tren (http://www.finainfo.net/) will both elevate PRL (Prolactin) levels (although, again debatable). Therefore, for PRL related sides, such as loss of libido, gyno and lactation (although not only from PRL), Caber, Prami or Dostinex need to be used.

You see, when people use deca (http://www.decainfo.com/) and tren (http://www.finainfo.net/), they tend to use Testosterone too. So if they experienced gyno, it may be from estrogen, NOT from deca (http://www.decainfo.com/) and tren (http://www.finainfo.net/) and again, thus being OK to use Tamoxifen.

Basically, as progesterone is synthesised in response to estrogen, if you control estrogen, you essentially reduce progesterone sides as well.

I hope that clears some confusion because you will NOT find a study stating Tamoxifen up regulates the progesterone receptor in breast tissue anywhere. I have never seen a case of gyno solely caused by PgR. It just seems impossible as the PgR is synthesized by the ER (Estrogen Receptor).

This is from bigcat's steroid profiles, which summarizes some of the above about nolvadex and 19-nor:

"If indeed the overall yield of estrogen is so much smaller, and so is the rate of androgen receptor stimulation, how then is nandrolone (http://www.nandroloneinfo.com/) so anabolic? The common belief is through a third receptor : the progesterone receptor. It has been concluded that both nandrolone2 and several of its metabolites3,4 do indeed activate the progesterone receptor and are altered by it. On the one hand progestagenic activity decreases the estrogen receptor concentration in some tissues, it also mediates estrogenic action in other tissues5. So while estrogenic side-effects are fairly uncommon with nandrolone (http://www.nandroloneinfo.com/) use alone, they can indeed occur and the implications of nandrolone (http://www.nandroloneinfo.com/)'s activity as a progesterone indicate these potential side-effects aren't to be solved with an aromatase inhibitor alone (like Cytadren). As long as there is estrogen in the system (indicating a possible increase of the problem when stacked with another aromatizing compound) progesterone can agonize its effects. And since progesterone receptors are found in breast tissue and have been linked to the formation of milk ducts, progestagenic activity may aggravate possibly gynocomastia. So while such problems are rare, when they occur they aren't easily treated.

It makes sense then that those particularly prone to the effects and side-effects of estrogen would take extra precaution. Blocking aromatase, considering the previous paragraph, would be a poor choice, but competitively inhibiting the estrogen receptor itself with clomiphene citrate (clomid (http://www.clomidinfo.com/)) or tamoxifen citrate (Nolvadex) might bring some relief since a large portion of progestagenic action is nullified if there is no circulating estrogen around, or if it is kept from being activated by the estrogen receptor."

One last thing. This thread is not meant to sway anyone from using or not using Tamoxifen with 19nors. Some of you may get worse sides from adding Nolva to a deca (http://www.decainfo.com/) or tren (http://www.finainfo.net/) laden cycle, but saying everyone will is misinformation.

As I have said a bilion times, everyone is different. For example, at the end of my cycling days all I took ever was a small amount of Aromasin. And I don't get gyno from even 1g of test (http://www.buytest.info/) a week. But that's me. I have just gotten a little peeved at seeing everyone say DON"T USE NOLVADEX WITH 19NORS OR IT WILL CAUSE PROBLEMS.

Use should always be conducted following thorough research and then through trial and error. Yes, knowledge from others is great as a start, but you have to find out what works for YOU and only YOU!!!!!”

[cherrybombfitnes]

I found this. Maybe a good read and maybe not. It’s up to you to do your own research but from my experience and many of my friends, taking nolvadex doesn’t make gyno worst. However there are some people who claim it does get worst but to flat out say it will make it worst is false.

“All credits goes to RJ
For some reason over the last year or so, all i have seen on this board (as I don't visit others) is how devastating it is to use Tamoxifen with 19nors. Now, before we get into this, I don't wanna hear a bunch of parroted shit from people who have no experience with it. I have used Tamoxifen personally while using deca (http://www.decainfo.com/) and tren (http://www.finainfo.net/) and had no issues with the supposed problems that have said to arisen in the past year or so. I have also done loads of reading on it. So lets have a healthy debate shall we? Humdiddly, feel free to use all the big words you like... as long as I understand them. lol

Now, here is what my research tells me. Tamoxifen is a mixed ER agonist/antagonist.

In some tissues, such as the endometrium (uterus), upregulation of the progesterone receptor would be expected, as the endometrium is very sensitive to estrogen. This is where i believe there is confusion.

In other tissues, such as the breast, Tamoxifen is an antagonist (blocks the ER). The progesterone receptor is synthesized in response to estrogen. So when the ER is blocked (in breast tissue), the progesterone receptor will also down regulate. This is what happens in cancer patients and we're no different.

Therefore, Tamoxifen will help reduce gyno even when using tren (http://www.finainfo.net/) or deca (http://www.decainfo.com/), not make it worse.

Now, Tamoxifen will down regulate the progesterone receptor in breast tissue. Some "guru's" state Tamoxifen will up regulate the progesterone receptor and cause or lead to gyno. By either worsening estrogenic gyno or by itself. They, therefore, assume Tamoxifen CANT be used with deca (http://www.decainfo.com/) or tren (http://www.finainfo.net/), but this is false.

Now, some of you may be confused about gyno. Maybe this will help.

You can get gyno (it seems) 3 ways. First off, from estrogen. Second, from progesterone alone, or progesterone making estrogenic gyno worse. And finally, from prolactin.

Tamoxifen can be used to treat gyno from either deca (http://www.decainfo.com/) or tren (http://www.finainfo.net/), whether it be from estrogen or progesterone. BUT Tamoxifen CANNOT treat prolactin induced gyno. But can treat estrogenic gyno or progestenic gyno (if that exists).

deca (http://www.decainfo.com/) and tren (http://www.finainfo.net/) will both elevate PRL (Prolactin) levels (although, again debatable). Therefore, for PRL related sides, such as loss of libido, gyno and lactation (although not only from PRL), Caber, Prami or Dostinex need to be used.

You see, when people use deca (http://www.decainfo.com/) and tren (http://www.finainfo.net/), they tend to use Testosterone too. So if they experienced gyno, it may be from estrogen, NOT from deca (http://www.decainfo.com/) and tren (http://www.finainfo.net/) and again, thus being OK to use Tamoxifen.

Basically, as progesterone is synthesised in response to estrogen, if you control estrogen, you essentially reduce progesterone sides as well.

I hope that clears some confusion because you will NOT find a study stating Tamoxifen up regulates the progesterone receptor in breast tissue anywhere. I have never seen a case of gyno solely caused by PgR. It just seems impossible as the PgR is synthesized by the ER (Estrogen Receptor).

This is from bigcat's steroid profiles, which summarizes some of the above about nolvadex and 19-nor:

"If indeed the overall yield of estrogen is so much smaller, and so is the rate of androgen receptor stimulation, how then is nandrolone (http://www.nandroloneinfo.com/) so anabolic? The common belief is through a third receptor : the progesterone receptor. It has been concluded that both nandrolone2 and several of its metabolites3,4 do indeed activate the progesterone receptor and are altered by it. On the one hand progestagenic activity decreases the estrogen receptor concentration in some tissues, it also mediates estrogenic action in other tissues5. So while estrogenic side-effects are fairly uncommon with nandrolone (http://www.nandroloneinfo.com/) use alone, they can indeed occur and the implications of nandrolone (http://www.nandroloneinfo.com/)'s activity as a progesterone indicate these potential side-effects aren't to be solved with an aromatase inhibitor alone (like Cytadren). As long as there is estrogen in the system (indicating a possible increase of the problem when stacked with another aromatizing compound) progesterone can agonize its effects. And since progesterone receptors are found in breast tissue and have been linked to the formation of milk ducts, progestagenic activity may aggravate possibly gynocomastia. So while such problems are rare, when they occur they aren't easily treated.

It makes sense then that those particularly prone to the effects and side-effects of estrogen would take extra precaution. Blocking aromatase, considering the previous paragraph, would be a poor choice, but competitively inhibiting the estrogen receptor itself with clomiphene citrate (clomid (http://www.clomidinfo.com/)) or tamoxifen citrate (Nolvadex) might bring some relief since a large portion of progestagenic action is nullified if there is no circulating estrogen around, or if it is kept from being activated by the estrogen receptor."

One last thing. This thread is not meant to sway anyone from using or not using Tamoxifen with 19nors. Some of you may get worse sides from adding Nolva to a deca (http://www.decainfo.com/) or tren (http://www.finainfo.net/) laden cycle, but saying everyone will is misinformation.

As I have said a bilion times, everyone is different. For example, at the end of my cycling days all I took ever was a small amount of Aromasin. And I don't get gyno from even 1g of test (http://www.buytest.info/) a week. But that's me. I have just gotten a little peeved at seeing everyone say DON"T USE NOLVADEX WITH 19NORS OR IT WILL CAUSE PROBLEMS.

Use should always be conducted following thorough research and then through trial and error. Yes, knowledge from others is great as a start, but you have to find out what works for YOU and only YOU!!!!!”

I didn’t say it would flat out make it worse. I said it’s a bad idea because “it CAN make it worse”. In the end nolvadex is not a prolactin drug nor an AI so I’m just saying it’s like using a screwdriver to hammer a nail when you have a perfectly good hammer sitting right next to you. It shouldn’t piss you off that people are giving safe advice to people. What should piss you off is when people say “nah, go ahead and use this primitive drug because that’s all I need and I suggest you use it too instead of the actual drug that is meant for the situation.”

I understood it works for you but that’s really kind of a fluke that it works that way because it wasn’t meant for that and caber and aromasin are both far safer and more effective for prolactin and estrogen and they are meant for these things. Nolvadex is synthetic estrogen and a breast cancer drug. It doesn’t even get rid of estrogen it simply leaves it floating around the body waiting for estrogen rebound when you quit taking it so the estrogen can rush to your receptors and cause gyno during a pct (if one does pct). You can do what you want but recommending that to people you don’t know is irresponsible.


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[cherrybombfitnes]

And I’ll reiterate that nolvadex isn’t needed for ANY cycle or steroid. It’s a primitive drug and could be totally done away with and the steroid community would be great. Clomid is a better SERM and meant to replace nolvadex a LONG time ago. And even clomid is t the right tool for the job.

Aromasin
Arimidex
Caber

Pramipexole is primitive too but at least it actually is made for lowering prolactin

Nolvadex may as well fall off the map.


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[yoshi925]

And I’ll reiterate that nolvadex isn’t needed for ANY cycle or steroid. It’s a primitive drug and could be totally done away with and the steroid community would be great. Clomid is a better SERM and meant to replace nolvadex a LONG time ago. And even clomid is t the right tool for the job.

Aromasin
Arimidex
Caber

Pramipexole is primitive too but at least it actually is made for lowering prolactin

Nolvadex may as well fall off the map.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Arimidex is weak and even using .5mg eod still gave me gyno so using nolvadex will reverse gyno and It had worked very well for me and others.

I think you don’t understand the types of gyno and what each drugs do to help it.

To say nolvadex won’t help with gyno is complete BS.

To each their own.

If you’re going to give advice on something, try finding studies done on human instead of mice.

I’m just giving my personal experience and what others have experienced (human experiences not mice). Take it like it is.

[cherrybombfitnes]

Arimidex is weak and even using .5mg eod still gave me gyno so using nolvadex will reverse gyno and It had worked very well for me and others.

I think you don’t understand the types of gyno and what each drugs do to help it.

To say nolvadex won’t help with gyno is complete BS.

To each their own.

If you’re going to give advice on something, try finding studies done on human instead of mice.

I’m just giving my personal experience and what others have experienced (human experiences not mice). Take it like it is.

You keep misquoting me. I never said nolva doesn’t help gyno. That’s not even what we have been discussing. We are discussing using nolvadex in place of an AI and/or cabergoline. Treating gyno and preventing it are two different ball games.

I’m aware of the different ways one can get gyno.

What I’m discussing is when you are telling him he doesn’t need anything but nolvadex for prolactin control because that’s what you do. There are drugs for each of these types of gyno but you’re saying nolvadex covers all the bases which is just you ASSUMING it will be the same for everyone which is wreckless. If someone takes your advice and gets gyno are you going to cover his surgery? Lol

If this was a debate on recreational drugs it would be like you telling someone “yeah take 10 tabs of acid, I did it and it’s not so bad” and then me saying “don’t take 10 tabs, take 1 and then figure out how you react and then assess and adjust”

When you give advice on dangerous things you should be cautious and conservative and make sure you are saying it accurately. Don’t say, “nolvadex is all you need with a 19-nor because it works for me”
Say “this is what I do, and it works for me, but you should use this or this and see what works for you but don’t depend on nolvadex because I have no idea if it will work for you the same”.

There’s a right way and a wrong way and there’s a grey area as well but you have no idea where that person will be on the scale so the advice you’re giving could hurt him if he isn’t like you. You’re mice vs. human argument is neither here nor there. NO TWO PEOPLE ARE THE SAME SO DO NOT GIVE UNORTHODOX recommendations that could hurt someone if you’re wrong. Period.


Robolics Labs Intelligence

[cherrybombfitnes]

Also, if arimidex is too weak then bump the dose or try aromasin which is a suicidal inhibitor. Nolvadex was used as estrogen control in the 80s and 90s. Bone up on modern drugs.


Robolics Labs Intelligence

[yoshi925]

You keep misquoting me. I never said nolva doesn’t help gyno. That’s not even what we have been discussing. We are discussing using nolvadex in place of an AI and/or cabergoline. Treating gyno and preventing it are two different ball games.

I’m aware of the different ways one can get gyno.

What I’m discussing is when you are telling him he doesn’t need anything but nolvadex for prolactin control because that’s what you do. There are drugs for each of these types of gyno but you’re saying nolvadex covers all the bases which is just you ASSUMING it will be the same for everyone which is wreckless. If someone takes your advice and gets gyno are you going to cover his surgery? Lol

If this was a debate on recreational drugs it would be like you telling someone “yeah take 10 tabs of acid, I did it and it’s not so bad” and then me saying “don’t take 10 tabs, take 1 and then figure out how you react and then assess and adjust”

When you give advice on dangerous things you should be cautious and conservative and make sure you are saying it accurately. Don’t say, “nolvadex is all you need with a 19-nor because it works for me”
Say “this is what I do, and it works for me, but you should use this or this and see what works for you but don’t depend on nolvadex because I have no idea if it will work for you the same”.

There’s a right way and a wrong way and there’s a grey area as well but you have no idea where that person will be on the scale so the advice you’re giving could hurt him if he isn’t like you. You’re mice vs. human argument is neither here nor there. NO TWO PEOPLE ARE THE SAME SO DO NOT GIVE UNORTHODOX recommendations that could hurt someone if you’re wrong. Period.


Robolics Labs Intelligence

When did I say take nolvadex will cover all bases? SMH GTFOH [emoji2359]

Also how are you even in your right mind discussing about taking nolvadex in place of an AI?

You do understand the difference between a SERM and AI right? They are not the same and they both do different things.

Let me explain and make it simple so you can understand.

A SERM like Nolvadex is used to block estrogen receptors so estrogen doesn’t bind to.

An AI such as arimidex will reduce the conversions of estrogen. When you shoot up testosterone your body will balance your estrogen with the higher testosterone levels. Although an AI will reduce the estrogen conversions, it’s not 100% and you will still get estrogen binding to the receptors which wouldn’t have happen if you taken nolvadex. Yes you can up your AI but that will be a trial an error attempt as you have to play around with dosage and draw bloods. Some may even crash their estrogen when increasing AI.

The topic was is it ok to take nolvadex while on tren and the answer is yes if you’re prone to testosterone gyno because you obviously need to run testosterone with tren.

Now if you have prolactin gyno from tren then you need to take caber but still take nolvadex if you’re prone to testosterone gyno.


You giving advice about nolvadex making it worst is horrible advice. So if someone running tren and testosterone got gyno which was estrogen related you telling them nolvadex will make it worst is flat out stupid advice. Are you going to pay for their gyno surgery?


Where do you get your information from? You shouldn’t be on here spewing out non sense.

[cherrybombfitnes]

When did I say take nolvadex will cover all bases? SMH GTFOH [emoji2359]

Also how are you even in your right mind discussing about taking nolvadex in place of an AI?

You do understand the difference between a SERM and AI right? They are not the same and they both do different things.

Let me explain and make it simple so you can understand.

A SERM like Nolvadex is used to block estrogen receptors so estrogen doesn’t bind to.

An AI such as arimidex will reduce the conversions of estrogen. When you shoot up testosterone your body will balance your estrogen with the higher testosterone levels. Although an AI will reduce the estrogen conversions, it’s not 100% and you will still get estrogen binding to the receptors which wouldn’t have happen if you taken nolvadex. Yes you can up your AI but that will be a trial an error attempt as you have to play around with dosage and draw bloods. Some may even crash their estrogen when increasing AI.

The topic was is it ok to take nolvadex while on tren and the answer is yes if you’re prone to testosterone gyno because you obviously need to run testosterone with tren.

Now if you have prolactin gyno from tren then you need to take caber but still take nolvadex if you’re prone to testosterone gyno.


You giving advice about nolvadex making it worst is horrible advice. So if someone running tren and testosterone got gyno which was estrogen related you telling them nolvadex will make it worst is flat out stupid advice. Are you going to pay for their gyno surgery?


Where do you get your information from? You shouldn’t be on here spewing out non sense.

You clearly haven’t read any of my posts lol or you have trouble with reading comprehension lol


Robolics Labs Intelligence

[cherrybombfitnes]

Dude... you haven’t read my posts lol and if you did you wouldn’t be saying what you’re saying because I didn’t say ANY of that.


Robolics Labs Intelligence

[cherrybombfitnes]

Have a nice day bro. I can’t have a discussion with someone who isn’t going to read and is unwilling to consider that they might be wrong. What you are saying proves you haven’t read a single word that I posted. How long have you been using aas? And how old are you?


Robolics Labs Intelligence

[cherrybombfitnes]

BecUse if you’ve been using longer than I have then it’s sad how little you have actually tried to educate yourself because every time you post you sound dumber. You’re being defensive Instead of considering what is being said.


Robolics Labs Intelligence

[cherrybombfitnes]

And the fact that you still use nolva as an AI is crazy. Are you 60? Have you researched AI’s and prolactin drugs???


Robolics Labs Intelligence

[cherrybombfitnes]

Your advice endangers people. Period. You have no idea what you’re talking about lol please do more reasearch or don’t give advice to rookies. You are a danger.


Robolics Labs Intelligence

[cherrybombfitnes]

You’re asking IF I KNOW the difference between AI and SERM while you use a SERM as an AI and say it helps prolactin. PLEASE READ BEFORE YOU REPLY. your posts are a waste of time so far because you don’t even respond correctly to my posts. Please read slowly first. Reading comprehension is important.


Robolics Labs Intelligence

[Bigdaddyperk]

When did I say take nolvadex will cover all bases? SMH GTFOH [emoji2359]

Also how are you even in your right mind discussing about taking nolvadex in place of an AI?

You do understand the difference between a SERM and AI right? They are not the same and they both do different things.

Let me explain and make it simple so you can understand.

A SERM like Nolvadex is used to block estrogen receptors so estrogen doesn’t bind to.

An AI such as arimidex will reduce the conversions of estrogen. When you shoot up testosterone your body will balance your estrogen with the higher testosterone levels. Although an AI will reduce the estrogen conversions, it’s not 100% and you will still get estrogen binding to the receptors which wouldn’t have happen if you taken nolvadex. Yes you can up your AI but that will be a trial an error attempt as you have to play around with dosage and draw bloods. Some may even crash their estrogen when increasing AI.

The topic was is it ok to take nolvadex while on tren and the answer is yes if you’re prone to testosterone gyno because you obviously need to run testosterone with tren.

Now if you have prolactin gyno from tren then you need to take caber but still take nolvadex if you’re prone to testosterone gyno.


You giving advice about nolvadex making it worst is horrible advice. So if someone running tren and testosterone got gyno which was estrogen related you telling them nolvadex will make it worst is flat out stupid advice. Are you going to pay for their gyno surgery?


Where do you get your information from? You shouldn’t be on here spewing out non sense.Id say use nolva during pct for the most part.. combined with Clomid...more beneficial...as far as during cycle... it's a selective estrogen release modulator...so coupled with arimidex ..i think you could still have conversion .there for id say just eliminate both and go with a suicide inhibitor aromasin...#simplicity...course some people dont tolerate one or the other ...also nolva comes with some sides like lowered igf levels..not sure if it would help one way or another on prolactin issues...course rumor has it long as E2 in check. Prolactin shouldn't be an issue.... but I don't think that's necessary true Case by case...

Sent from my LG-H932 using Tapatalk

[Bigdaddyperk]

Course some people like to keep their E2 bit higher lol..thrive in wet environment.i very seldom use any ai ...just bit here and there since using hcg ..and occasionally some caber.for good measures since im quite high tren..too each their own..diff strokes for diff folks..just gotta find out what works best for you....as for the op...good luck do tons of research and ask as many questions as you need ...

Sent from my LG-H932 using Tapatalk

[cherrybombfitnes]

Course some people like to keep their E2 bit higher lol..thrive in wet environment.i very seldom use any ai ...just bit here and there since using hcg ..and occasionally some caber.for good measures since im quite high tren..too each their own..diff strokes for diff folks..just gotta find out what works best for you....as for the op...good luck do tons of research and ask as many questions as you need ...

Sent from my LG-H932 using Tapatalk

I never go high enough to need caber myself, and I use masteron almost year ‘round so I don’t need many ancillaries usually. There are those that are extra “gyno prone” though and need a high dose of AI with even trt. However I did a cycle of test/deca once 750/600 and no amount of mast, caber or AI could save me from a limp dick for 4 months. It’s Interesting how different people react.


Robolics Labs Intelligence

[yoshi925]

You’re asking IF I KNOW the difference between AI and SERM while you use a SERM as an AI and say it helps prolactin. PLEASE READ BEFORE YOU REPLY. your posts are a waste of time so far because you don’t even respond correctly to my posts. Please read slowly first. Reading comprehension is important.


Robolics Labs Intelligence

WTF are you talking about? When did I say I use SERM as an AI. Man you are one retarded fuck. I already told you the reason for taking AI and SERM. Do I need to write it in crayon for you to understand? Or all that tren fucking up your mind to?

Please stop giving dumb advice on here. You are a waste of time giving stupid advice that can harm newbies on here.

Please go do some research on SERMS and AI.

I already explained what SERM and AI. They are two different drugs that do two different things.

You must be from Evolutionary forums SMH
[emoji2359]

You’re like a child that only believes YouTube videos and preach what they say on the forums. Arguing with you is like running for a special Olympics, because it doesn’t matter if you win, you’re still retarded.

[emoji3577]

To everyone who is planning to take this dudes advice. Please don’t. Do your own due diligence and find the answer yourself and not get spoon fed by some guy that thinks he knows everything about SERMS and AI.

[cherrybombfitnes]

WTF are you talking about? When did I say I use SERM as an AI. Man you are one retarded fuck. I already told you the reason for taking AI and SERM. Do I need to write it in crayon for you to understand? Or all that tren fucking up your mind to?

Please stop giving dumb advice on here. You are a waste of time giving stupid advice that can harm newbies on here.

Please go do some research on SERMS and AI.

I already explained what SERM and AI. They are two different drugs that do two different things.

You must be from Evolutionary forums SMH
[emoji2359]

You’re like a child that only believes YouTube videos and preach what they say on the forums. Arguing with you is like running for a special Olympics, because it doesn’t matter if you win, you’re still retarded.

[emoji3577]

To everyone who is planning to take this dudes advice. Please don’t. Do your own due diligence and find the answer yourself and not get spoon fed by some guy that thinks he knows everything about SERMS and AI.

You’re comical. You take one stand and argue it until you realize you’re wrong and then try to pretend that you’ve been saying what I’ve been saying the whole time. Great debate skills. You really should learn to read.


Robolics Labs Intelligence

[cherrybombfitnes]

WTF are you talking about? When did I say I use SERM as an AI. Man you are one retarded fuck. I already told you the reason for taking AI and SERM. Do I need to write it in crayon for you to understand? Or all that tren fucking up your mind to?

Please stop giving dumb advice on here. You are a waste of time giving stupid advice that can harm newbies on here.

Please go do some research on SERMS and AI.

I already explained what SERM and AI. They are two different drugs that do two different things.

You must be from Evolutionary forums SMH
[emoji2359]

You’re like a child that only believes YouTube videos and preach what they say on the forums. Arguing with you is like running for a special Olympics, because it doesn’t matter if you win, you’re still retarded.

[emoji3577]

To everyone who is planning to take this dudes advice. Please don’t. Do your own due diligence and find the answer yourself and not get spoon fed by some guy that thinks he knows everything about SERMS and AI.

You should really slow down when you read and work on absorbing what you read because you clearly didn’t read anything I wrote. I didn’t say any of that shit. You did. And I don’t know why you’re trying to explain to me what a SERM is for because you clearly don’t know lol. You said you used nolva and caber. So you use it as an AI or gyno control or whatever but you don’t use an actual AI. So I tell you nolva is not an AI, it’s a SERM and then you say “”why are you saying nolvadex is an AI, it’s not it’s a SERM!!”” And try to act like I’m the dumb one lol. Goddamn I feel sorry for your wife if you have one lmao!!

I won’t be responding to your nonsensical posts anymore lol have fun with that nonsense clanging around in your head lol


Robolics Labs Intelligence

[cherrybombfitnes]

WTF are you talking about? When did I say I use SERM as an AI. Man you are one retarded fuck. I already told you the reason for taking AI and SERM. Do I need to write it in crayon for you to understand? Or all that tren fucking up your mind to?

Please stop giving dumb advice on here. You are a waste of time giving stupid advice that can harm newbies on here.

Please go do some research on SERMS and AI.

I already explained what SERM and AI. They are two different drugs that do two different things.

You must be from Evolutionary forums SMH
[emoji2359]

You’re like a child that only believes YouTube videos and preach what they say on the forums. Arguing with you is like running for a special Olympics, because it doesn’t matter if you win, you’re still retarded.

[emoji3577]

To everyone who is planning to take this dudes advice. Please don’t. Do your own due diligence and find the answer yourself and not get spoon fed by some guy that thinks he knows everything about SERMS and AI.

Do you know what ad hominem means?


Robolics Labs Intelligence

[yoshi925]

You’re comical. You take one stand and argue it until you realize you’re wrong and then try to pretend that you’ve been saying what I’ve been saying the whole time. Great debate skills. You really should learn to read.


Robolics Labs Intelligence

Holy smokes you still here? And can you stop DMing me about my age. What are you an old perve?

Let me just make it plain and simple here.

If you have estrogen related gyno from taking tren and Test like hard lump forming or sore nips you can definitely take nolvadex on cycle.

If you have fatty tissue forming and or lactating from your nips then obviously take caber.

So simple easy to understand concept here is yes you can run nolvadex for estrogen related gyno while on a tren cycle.

Is that to fucking difficult for you to understand?

Stop telling people taking nolvadex on tren cycle will make things worst. Fucking giving out wrong information will fuck someone up.

Go show me human study where taking nolvadex on tren made things worst? Take your time I’ll wait.

[emoji3577]

[cherrybombfitnes]

Lmfao!!!!! You’re a riot man. I asked because you seem senile lol. Have a lovely evening!


Robolics Labs Intelligence

[socalmk6gti]

We are exspecting it anyday ..and no min...keep your eye out for my announcment bro

Sent from my LG-H932 using TapatalkDid you guys ever get caber? I'm in the same boat, I have plenty of everything else but just want a no minimum order for caber.

Thanks

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

[Train Smart]

Course some people like to keep their E2 bit higher lol..thrive in wet environment.i very seldom use any ai ...just bit here and there since using hcg ..and occasionally some caber.for good measures since im quite high tren..too each their own..diff strokes for diff folks..just gotta find out what works best for you....as for the op...good luck do tons of research and ask as many questions as you need ...

Sent from my LG-H932 using Tapatalk

:iHaXsZdzSbnB.jpg::iHaXsZdzSbnB.jpg:............He said it best when he said you gotta find what works for you, and the only way you're gonna know what works and what doesn't is trial and error and blood work...Good luck