Need Experienced GH Users Help Please

[astevens2]

I just started running a kit of black tops at 5iu per day. This is my first experience with gh. I know I should get bloods done and I probably will but what kind of effects or side effects should I see with 5iu? I'm just hoping the stuff is real. So if it is real what should be some signs and symptoms?

[Popeye*]

Re edited

From a seasoned trusted Vet on this board:


GH starter "ramp" protocol


4iu's - 5iu's
Start with 1iu for 3 weeks, ramp to 2iu for 3 weeks, 3iu for 3 weeks, 4iu for 3 weeks. 4-5 iu and less for therapeutic benefits and improved AAS benefits. If at any point CTS or swelling is an issue back off 1iu and do a 6 week ramp until sides subside. If sides persist go back to dosage that yielded no sides and ramp at 9 week intervals. The other side is feeling tired, IMO that's more an issue of timing your dose, and I'll address that later in detail.


Split am/pm.
Dose upon waking in a fasted state is best for fat burning but if feeling tired is an issue dose light in the morning and more in the evening for example 1iu a.m./3iu p.m. If you don't get too tired after dosing and fat burning is your focus then pining more iu's in a fasted state upon waking will be what you want to aim for and in this case 3iu a.m/1iu p.m will do. If I'm not waking @ 3:30 a.m. for the purpose of fasted cardio then I set my alarm for 3a.m., have my pin loaded in my mini fridge by my bed, simply roll over, open the mini fridge, pin then I'm going right back to sleep. It literally takes me seconds and I'll actually wake just before my alarm goes off cause I'm heavily anticipating the dose. This way I wake @ 6:30 and my body is already primed and in a fat burning state. Several hours have passed since pining and I can eat a good clean breakfast which I love. In an effort to avoid building insulin desensitization you'll need to not eat for at least an hour after you dose and I prefer longer. So for your p.m. dose I do my p.m. training, immediately carb up after and I wait an hour and a half to pin my evening dose.

[emoji1370][emoji1370][emoji1370][emoji1370]
CTS - numbness/tingling in the hands
The ramp protocol is a slow one but I assure you if you get hit with intense CTS (numbness & tingling in your hands) you'll wish you had taken the ramp route. I've got friends who we're accustomed to the high oil volume of AAS and, in looking at a mere 4iu's, decided to jump in and go straight to 2iu morning/2iu night. Well one of em is still experiencing CTS to this day. So IME if you dive in too quickly the sides can be very persistent whereas with the ramp protocol I've never had anyone come back to me complaining about sides that persisted past the point of the increased 9 week ramp. It's obvious to me that the point in starting with GH is allowing the body time to adapt and staying ahead of the sides. GH is not like AAS guys. It's very potent and has a profound affect on our body. The first time you see 4iu's your gonna do what we all do and say "seriously that's it?" To this day it's hard for me to grasp the potency of GH.


Bac water -
I use a 23g pin and draw 1cc of Bac water. I add 1cc of air to the pin so I have a total of 2cc in the pin...1cc of Bac water and 1cc of air to equal out the pressure in the GH vial. Now take the vial of powder GH and turn it at an angle so you can poke the pin through the rubber top at an angle so the needle is against the glass. DO NOT ALLOW THE BAC WATER TO SPRAY DIRECTLY ON THE POWDER ANGLE THE NEEDLE ON THE GLASS. Now with 1cc Bac water added to now have 10iu of reconstituted GH and each line on a 1cc/ml pin is 1iu. Now the powder might not completely dissolve so DO NOT SHAKE THE VIAL IT WILL DESTROY THE GH. Simply place the vial between your hands and slowly roll your hands back and forth. It might take a few minutes but will eventually completely dissolve. Make sure ALL the powder is dissolved and reconstituted.


Administering you're GH subq
You want to follow the same cleaning process used in pining AAS. I simply pinch some fat one inch away from my belly button and it's that simple. Some will say you must pin at a slight angle but I just go straight in and I'm g2g. It's very common to get a small lump right where you pin and this will subside momentarily. IMO there's no need to aspirate when pining subq. Again some will swear you must but I've never had an issue or had anyone I've coached have an issue either.


T3/T4 supplementation


<6iu's.
Under 6 iu's I don't supplement with T4. Based on my bloods I've always been within a range I'm ok with and was happy with my recomp. We all are different tho so I'll express my position in more detail. Just know if you choose to supplement with T3/T4 bloods are a must otherwise you're at risk of losing valuable lean muscle mass.


T4 naturally converts to T3 in the case of a deficit. Exogenous GH will cause T4 to T3 conversion to accelerate. If you supplement with T3 it can easily get too high causing you to cannibalize valuable lean muscle and flatten you out. Therefore IMO supplementing T4 is more synergistic with exogenous GH. You'll see guys on GH have low T4 levels and elevated T3 so cover the lower marker and your g2g. Now if your doing a show and need to make weight then I can see the logic behind keeping T3 higher but for the average hobbyist IMO its counterproductive and wastes valuable lean muscle mass. I'm not a competitor nor am I referring to the needs of a competitor. I'm targeting the average hobbyist with this protocol because it's what I know.


>6iu's
That's not my comfort zone so I'll stay away from this and let someone else chime in. But I would assume that T3 supplementation is encouraged. Look when discussing typical ranges this can vary quite a bit so keep that in mind. Normal serum T3 levels (not free) are usually somewhere around 25 but can range all the way to 180 so I'd think that starting at 12.5 and ramping by 12.5 each week til reaching 37.5 would work. The key is doing your bloodwork especially if you surpass the 6iu marker. But again I'm a below 6iu guy so take my comments on this part lightly.

[Caustic Charm]

OP needs to back out of 5 IUs a day to start. You will f up hard my friend.

[astevens2]

Why? My plan was to see if I get any sides and if I do back it down. If I don't get any sides jumping right to 5iu then the quality is bad, that's my thinking.

[GoGoGodzilla]

Why? My plan was to see if I get any sides and if I do back it down. If I don't get any sides jumping right to 5iu then the quality is bad, that's my thinking.

Your Title says HELP PLEASE, Two very active and knowledgeable members give you solid advice and you ask WHY and basically say your gonna continue with your protocol. I am very experienced with GH and would suggest same thing that has already been suggested but obviously you know what’s best for you.... GOOD LUCK!

If you start a thread and ask for help take the advice or don’t post asking for advice.

[bigpapapumpaf]

It will take you several weeks to a month to notice anything, if at all. You may or may not get numbness in your hands, thats not always a good qualifier. Improved sleep is a biggie for me. Since you did not do bloods before hand, you have no clue what is good or bad. 5 iu is OK to start, I'd suggest 2 to 4 for fat loss only and at that it will take 3 to 4 months to get fat loss started.

BPP

[astevens2]

The first person said they've never taken it, the second one said to not do 5iu without any explanation. I come from a science background having a degree in a health science related field and love to learn and hear peoples perspectives. I appreciate any input but simply hearing that I will f up doesnt really do me or anyone else justice that's trying to learn.

[astevens2]

Your Title says HELP PLEASE, Two very active and knowledgeable members give you solid advice and you ask WHY and basically say your gonna continue with your protocol. I am very experienced with GH and would suggest same thing that has already been suggested but obviously you know what’s best for you.... GOOD LUCK!

If you start a thread and ask for help take the advice or don’t post asking for advice.

So in other words I didnt ask why to just argue like a teenager but rather hear the premise for the point of view.

[GoGoGodzilla]

So in other words I didnt ask why to just argue like a teenager but rather hear the premise for the point of view.

Gotcha... sorry for harsh response. I myself use the protocol given to you by PopEye, it was written by a very knowledgeable member and I’m sure he will chime in at some point. I am no way a Dr or come from a medical background and I will not act as if I do and spew my thoughts and give advice as if it is gospel. For me I have jumped to the 3iu + right out the gate and it was not fun, the ramp protocol is what works best for me and is what I suggest to anyone that asks.

Again sorry for quick response, prob should have had another sip of coffee and woke up a bit before posting!

[9TMARE]

I personally did a ramp up protocol. Started with 1.5, 2, 2.5 etc.
I did this to get acclimated to the sides I was going to experience. Once I have each dose a week or 2 I felt the sides lessen and lessen each time.
I feel if I started at 5iu I wouldn’t like the tiredness, throbbing hands and my jaw clinches off just 2iu lol


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[astevens2]

Haha it's all good, some coffee and a few cc's always helped me too. Thank you for the advice.

[joko123]

Everyone is a little different. Your hands might go numb, they might not. Whst should happen is you should start to sleep better, faster nail and hair growth, you should lean out if all else is kept the same, you should hold some IM water and it should make you look round or “pop”


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[astevens2]

This might be placebo to some degree but today I hit some arms and they felt like they were going to explode. Seems like possible water retention but have only been taking 5 iu 3 days now so not sure if that could be the cause. I will say the crazy pump was accompanied by swollen hands which wasn't the case before. Thinking this might be an indication that at least it's not fake.

[astevens2]

By the way I really appreciate everyone's input this far. We have an awesome community here.

[Caustic Charm]

By the way I really appreciate everyone's input this far. We have an awesome community here.

So the CTS is your biggest issue. As the first answer in this thread laid out, some people get CTS, and it never leaves. Besides, 5 IU and your in a territory of messing with your T3 and T4 levels to an unhealthy range, unless you’re doing consistent blood work. And a thyroid panel. Most of us don’t need more than 4. Big time BBs load up on it but they inevitably end up with the misnamed “roid gut” which is actually your intestines growing from the overuse of HGh. That’s permanent. So yes my friend work your way up.


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[astevens2]

I do get a complete metabolic panel done so I see tons of values. I will get another panel done in a few months to see if any values are out of range. I believe everyone should get bloods done. I'm definitely not the burly my head in the sand and start taking stuff kinda guy lol

[astevens2]

Bury*

[astevens2]

Plus I do know at least one person that's used gh for years and got scans done. None of his organs were of abnormal size and he took way more than 5iu.

[Caustic Charm]

Plus I do know at least one person that's used gh for years and got scans done. None of his organs were of abnormal size and he took way more than 5iu.

If you run high dosage continuously, it will catch you. Not a matter of if, it’s when.


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[GoGoGodzilla]

Some theories believe that anything over 4iu should be split. So if you are at 5iu you would pin 2.5iu 2x a day to increase benifits and lessen sides.

[astevens2]

I split morning and post workout

[astevens2]

If you run high dosage continuously, it will catch you. Not a matter of if, it’s when.


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You know that from personal experience? How did it catch up to you and what evidence do you have? I understand the big risk here is high blood sugar. I do believe it will be very important to test blood glucose fasted and 1hr post meal. If my fasted glucose is running higher than what I would like then I will start to supplement with appropriate doses of insulin.

[gravy]

You know that from personal experience? How did it catch up to you and what evidence do you have? I understand the big risk here is high blood sugar. I do believe it will be very important to test blood glucose fasted and 1hr post meal. If my fasted glucose is running higher than what I would like then I will start to supplement with appropriate doses of insulin.

This is what happened to me at 5ui ****** which was my last run. I couldn’t control my blood sugar without using slin and I was so tired. Could of slept forever. Next time I’ll run 2ui again, much easier to deal with

[astevens2]

Awesome thanks for the input, I'll be purchasing a glucose meter here soon

[bigpapapumpaf]

Don't believe the organ and gut hype. I know of no proof of any of that. Yes it may cause some glucose issues but if you stop a day or so it will usually go away without any worries. I also would not recommend upping thyroid unless you get bloods to prove that your levels are off. It is too hard to guess on thyroid and nothing is a given.

You also need to sort thru comments based on generic versus real Rx gh. Even the best generic is no where near a true Rx product. I think I posted before 2 to 4 ius of Rx is plenty for fat loss and it will transform you if given enough time. 5 ius of black tops is not going to kill you or hurt you and because its weaker, there is no benefit of splitting the dose. I can not quote medical fact but if you consider that gh is secreted at night while you sleep, it would make no sense to increase gh in the body before you sleep. This might cause natural gh production to be reduced. By taking gh in the morning, you gain the benefit of having increased gh levels all day, the biological half life is up to 17 hrs. Your levels will reduce before bedtime and the whole thing repeats....at least that's my logic.

BPP

[astevens2]

So I've only been on it a few days and I'm already getting hand tingling. Someone I know said it shouldn't happen that fast and that I probably got some peptide instead of actual gh. Can anyone confirm this? He uses phrm gh right now.

[enrod]

So I've only been on it a few days and I'm already getting hand tingling. Someone I know said it shouldn't happen that fast and that I probably got some peptide instead of actual gh. Can anyone confirm this? He uses phrm gh right now.

Pretty common side effect from exogenous GH. I'm sure it's already been said, but starting at 5iu's is asking for side effects. The body has to adapt to it, which is generally why people recommend ramping ius over time. You should back your dose down to avoid the tingling until your body becomes accustomed to its administration. I've ran GH for >5 years now, and I have never had hand swelling or issues with my blood sugar from GH use. I've ran ******, and I still only run generics. The primary use of GH in bodybuilding is to increase IGF-1 levels, which you will not be able to determine (by any side effect) without blood testing over time.

[astevens2]

So you're saying my stuff could actually be real and the hand swelling and tingling after only 4 days is due to me jumping right to 5iu?

[enrod]

So you're saying my stuff could actually be real and the hand swelling and tingling after only 4 days is due to me jumping right to 5iu?

Yes, that could very well be the case.


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[astevens2]

Yes, that could very well be the case.


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It's just tough since I'm getting answers on both sides of the coin. I guess the best thing to do for me is just get a serum hgh test done and see what the values are. I know you're really looking for igf 1 levels but I figure if serum levels show correlation to exogenous gh then the stuff is probably legit.

[enrod]

It's just tough since I'm getting answers on both sides of the coin. I guess the best thing to do for me is just get a serum hgh test done and see what the values are. I know you're really looking for igf 1 levels but I figure if serum levels show correlation to exogenous gh then the stuff is probably legit.

Doing a standard GH serum testing protocol should yield some sense of relief.

Ime, GH’s affects are overstated, and underwhelming vs other peds. But nonetheless, increasing IGF is a very important part of keeping the engine performing optimally.


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[Caustic Charm]

Doing a standard GH serum testing protocol should yield some sense of relief.

Ime, GH’s affects are overstated, and underwhelming vs other peds. But nonetheless, increasing IGF is a very important part of keeping the engine performing optimally.


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Hmmmm...all I know is that 3 months after I started HGh, I got leaner than I’ve been ever, in my life. That was last year and I was 53. I suppose it depends on expectations as to whether or not the effects are overstated.


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[enrod]

Hmmmm...all I know is that 3 months after I started HGh, I got leaner than I’ve been ever, in my life. That was last year and I was 53. I suppose it depends on expectations as to whether or not the effects are overstated.



Was this accompanied with a life style/diet change? Or did everything remain 100% consistent - diet, training, cardio?

[Caustic Charm]

Was this accompanied with a life style/diet change? Or did everything remain 100% consistent - diet, training, cardio?

Yup. And, I was drinking a 6 pack of Mountain Dew a day. Fat just came off. And I do no cardio.


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[astevens2]

Ya it's not that I'm looking for magic results its more so just a sense of relief that the stuff is real

[Caustic Charm]

Ya it's not that I'm looking for magic results its more so just a sense of relief that the stuff is real

Ha, I can see that I guess. There have been a lot of people join the BOP and not believe that the HGh was real. The public has been told how expensive it is, so when you find it cheap, you question it.


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[astevens2]

Yes exactly

[chadmack282]

Yes exactly

U notice any excess water holding around ankles?

[gihbo]

@ astevens jr-- When you interlock your fingers together as i you were praying do your fingers feel like 2 packs of sausages rubbing together yet? Serious question.

[astevens2]

U notice any excess water holding around ankles?

Not a lot but more than usual yes.

[astevens2]

@ astevens jr-- When you interlock your fingers together as i you were praying do your fingers feel like 2 packs of sausages rubbing together yet? Serious question.

To some extent yes they do lol

[astevens2]

In a matter of hours now I will be going in to a LabCorp to test serum hgh. Ill pin 10iu approximately 2.5 hours prior.

[Riggs]

Why? My plan was to see if I get any sides and if I do back it down. If I don't get any sides jumping right to 5iu then the quality is bad, that's my thinking.

And I thought I had seen/heard it all.

[Caustic Charm]

@ astevens jr-- When you interlock your fingers together as i you were praying do your fingers feel like 2 packs of sausages rubbing together yet? Serious question.

[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]


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[Caustic Charm]

And I thought I had seen/heard it all.

Like firing the gun at my foot to see if the gunpowder got wet.


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[astevens2]

And I thought I had seen/heard it all.

Hahahaha im just keeping you on your toes. I know this was a bad method hence why I went and got bloods taken

[Riggs]

Hahahaha im just keeping you on your toes. I know this was a bad method hence why I went and got bloods taken

I see that bud.

Now that I can support. Good decision.

What protocol did you follow? Sorry if it's been posted. Don't have as much time to dig thru threads like I used to.

10iu's pin'd to Delt 3.5 hours before having bloods drawn?

[astevens2]

I see that bud.

Now that I can support. Good decision.

What protocol did you follow? Sorry if it's been posted. Don't have as much time to dig thru threads like I used to.

10iu's pin'd to Delt 3.5 hours before having bloods drawn?

It was 10iu IM into delt 2.5 hours prior to the test

[astevens2]

5810258102

[astevens2]

Not sure why it posted 2 copies but anyways here are the results

[ARx International]

Unfortunately I learned the hard way!
Always had a elder that had been there.....done that!
Did I listen? Yes! Did I learn or act from there wisdom or replies? No !
I was a selfish dick thinking I knew more than the craftsman etc!..
I learned the hard way on not being a dick...like the 80s and 90s don't be a dick shirts..lol..
Listening to elders,vets,craftsman,etc is the best reply anyone can give!

ARx