Half Natty Alternatives

[JohnMcc]

I wanted to start this thread for us half natty people haha. Jokes aside I would like the purpose of this thread to be a compilation of alternative compounds for those of us who might have certain restraints that keep us from using your normal bodybuilding compounds. What I mean by that is ways we can get similar effects to AAS, GH, insulin, IGF1, etc without actually taking those actual compounds. Now I know that we obviously cant match the effectiveness of these things but every little bit helps in the grand scheme of things.

I will start with some examples of what I mean. So for myself I promised my wife no more injectable AAS cycles for a long while, however she agreed to let me use oral SARMs as a "replacement". Another would be I cant afford GH but can afford MK677 and don't have to inject it so it's similar alternative. Now that you guys hopefully understand the idea here, let's keep adding to list of things us "half nattys" can use to have an edge in building muscle or burning bodyfat for the purposes of bodybuilding.

[JohnMcc]

So on top the couple things I listed above I'll add GABA as an alternative for GH use. Theres plenty of data backing up its ability to raise GH levels above what we would normally produce. Again nowhere near as strong as actual GH use but every little bit helps. Personally I use 750mg a few nights a week because it puts me in a deep sleep the whole way through the night. You cant say that wont have a positive effect in the long term on recovery, muscle growth, and overall wellbeing.

Another good alternative would be using Ostarine for joint health and comfort similar to how people add low dose deca to cycles for the same reason. I know the water retention isn't the same but the overall net effect can still be achieved. I found 10-15mg of Ostarine helped heal previous joint issues.

Does anyone know of anything else that could be used to "replace" insulin, IGF1, GH, certain AAS. I hope this catches on and becomes a staple thread for people looking for ways to build muscle and lose fat that arent your normal bodybuilding compounds.

[Biggaintime]

Mk at night 25-30 mg for sure...depending on cap mg and brand

[joko123]

Slin and Mk 677 what be good options. I really wouldn’t touch sarms


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[JohnMcc]

Mk at night 25-30 mg for sure...depending on cap mg and brand

BGT I havent seen you in here in forever hope you are well. I agree I like that dose before bed. I still feel the hunger the next day though from the long active life of the compound. Not saying that's bad just one of its effects.

[JohnMcc]

Slin and Mk 677 what be good options. I really wouldn’t touch sarms


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Everyone has their preferences, I'm just trying to compile information for everyone and they can use what compounds the see fit for their goals. Do you have any alternatives to insulin you could think of to add to this list?

[JohnMcc]

I thought of one I use daily, cinnamon. A hefty dose of cinnamon has shown to lower the insulin response to carbs. Obviously not as strong as metformin or other GDAs but something simple that over the long term can improve insulin sensitivity when used at the right times.

[maxmuscle1]

Sarms and supplement timing-

Sarm like stack
Mk677 25mg AM or PM
YK-11 5-10mg daily
Lgd 4033 - 10mg daily(only sarm)

Using EEA’s pre-workout
Using HBCD and BCAAS carbs intra workout
Using High Carb/mod whey isolate post workout
Along with Insulin mimicking supps, such as: Berberine, Banaba, gymnema sylvestre, Cinulin PF, Vanadyl Sulfate Pentahydrate.

Creating Monohydrate daily 5 grams

These are just a few thing that can help a non aas user get good results. I will be dropping in and bombing some new upcoming supps/peptides/Serms/other compounds that may help you out.

Max

[JohnMcc]

Sarms and supplement timing-

Sarm like stack
Mk677 25mg AM or PM
YK-11 5-10mg daily
Lgd 4033 - 10mg daily(only sarm)

Using EEA’s pre-workout
Using HBCD and BCAAS carbs intra workout
Using High Carb/mod whey isolate post workout
Along with Insulin mimicking supps, such as: Berberine, Banaba, gymnema sylvestre, Cinulin PF, Vanadyl Sulfate Pentahydrate.

Creating Monohydrate daily 5 grams

These are just a few thing that can help a non aas user get good results. I will be dropping in and bombing some new upcoming supps/peptides/Serms/other compounds that may help you out.

Max

Awesome information Max, this is the type of stuff I was hoping to collect in this thread.

What is HBCD again, I think you've told me but I cant remember.

I've heard of only couple of the insulin mimetics you listed, I will research them more.

Thank you for contributing, it is greatly appreciated.

[JohnMcc]

Max made me think of some things regarding sarms.

So LGD 4033 has been suggested as an alternative for deca, dbol, and other typical bulking compounds.

RAD140 because of the strength gains could be an alternative to Tren, Halo, Anadrol perhaps.

S4 and S23 have been compared to Tren, Winny, Anavar when it comes to recomping or cosmetic effects

YK11 is just it's own special class of compound due to the myostatin inhibition.

Again I understand these might not work as well as traditional AAS but they are in the ball park.

[maxmuscle1]

Max made me think of some things regarding sarms.

So LGD 4033 has been suggested as an alternative for deca, dbol, and other typical bulking compounds.

RAD140 because of the strength gains could be an alternative to Tren, Halo, Anadrol perhaps.

S4 and S23 have been compared to Tren, Winny, Anavar when it comes to recomping or cosmetic effects

YK11 is just it's own special class of compound due to the myostatin inhibition.

Again I understand these might not work as well as traditional AAS but they are in the ball park.

Indeed. There are some really good, proven sarms, secretogogues, research items that can truly bring results. Using them and doing short cycles along with knowing some do indeed need pct even.

Max

[JohnMcc]

In the category of stimulants cacao has a stimulant effect. When combined with caffeine it's a 1+1=3 scenario. I use this one often so I dont have to over do it on my caffeine intake and accumulate unnecessary adrenal fatigue.

[joko123]

Everyone has their preferences, I'm just trying to compile information for everyone and they can use what compounds the see fit for their goals. Do you have any alternatives to insulin you could think of to add to this list?

I read your message wrong I thought you said slin was on your list of things to possible use. People use GDAs I don’t like them


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[JohnMcc]

Glutamine has been shown to increase GH production for short period after ingestion. I take mine before bed along side GABA to try and maximize the GH spike while sleeping.

On a side not this is also when I take my NAC since NAC amd Glutamine are the building blocks to produce glutathione.

[maxmuscle1]

MELANOTAN 2 -UNKOWN BENEFIT!!

One notable finding from the clinical trials that largely goes unmentioned is the ability Melanotan II has to increase insulin sensitivity.
Results showed that Melanotan II administration increased insulin-mediated glucose disposal, but didn’t affect the capacity of insulin to suppress EGP.
In a separate study done on obese males, the insulin sensitivity of the Melanotan II group was significantly better.
Why should you care about insulin sensitivity you ask?
Well, basically the more insulin sensitive you are, the more favorable your body composition can become.
When packing on weight for example, if you are extremely insulin sensitive, you will be far more likely to put on favorable lean weight than garbage fat fluff.
If you’ve been slamming high glycemic carbs for weeks on end, and are getting fat as shit, it’s likely your insulin sensitivity is down the toilet, and basically to continue to make physique progression and gain muscle you will be required to reduce your carb intake, get leaner, and resensitize yourself to insulin. The higher your insulin sensitivity the better in the world of bodybuilding, so that’s just another awesome benefit Melanotan II has. I recently got some melanotan 2 just for my Scandinavian/Irish ass to try out. I am against tanning beds but, I will be using them to see the color change and any sexual sides. I thought this positive increase in insulin sensitivity was definitely something I look forward to.

Max

[maxmuscle1]

Using an Arimidex only to raise free and total testosterone in low test individuals:

As men age, serum testosterone levels decrease, a factor that may contribute to some aspects of age-related physiological deterioration. Although androgen replacement has been shown to have beneficial effects in frankly hypogonadal men, its use in elderly men with borderline hypogonadism is controversial. Furthermore, current testosterone replacement methods have important limitations.
We investigated the ability of the orally administered aromatase inhibitor, anastrozole, to increase endogenous testosterone production in 37 men with testosterone levels less than 350 ng/dl.
Subjects were randomized in a double-blind fashion to the following 12-wk oral regimens: group 1: anastrozole 1 mg daily. group 2: anastrozole 1 mg twice weekly; and group 3: placebo daily. Hormone levels, quality of life, sexual function, benign prostate hyperplasia severity, prostate-specific antigen, and measures of safety were compared among groups.
Free Test Changes
Group 1- 99 ± 31 to 207 ± 65 ng/dl in and Group 2- 115 ± 37 to 178 ± 55 ng/dl
Total Testosterone Changed
Group 1- 343 ± 61 to 572 ± 139 ng/dl
Group 2- 397 ± 106 to 520 ± 91 ng/dl
*Serum LH levels increased
*Serum estradiol levels decreased
The data demonstrated that aromatase inhibition increases serum bioavailable and total testosterone levels to the youthful normal range in older men with mild hypogonadism. Serum estradiol levels decrease modestly but remain within the normal male range.

Max

Oxford Academic-JCEM
Study

[JohnMcc]

MELANOTAN 2 -UNKOWN BENEFIT!!

One notable finding from the clinical trials that largely goes unmentioned is the ability Melanotan II has to increase insulin sensitivity.
Results showed that Melanotan II administration increased insulin-mediated glucose disposal, but didn’t affect the capacity of insulin to suppress EGP.
In a separate study done on obese males, the insulin sensitivity of the Melanotan II group was significantly better.
Why should you care about insulin sensitivity you ask?
Well, basically the more insulin sensitive you are, the more favorable your body composition can become.
When packing on weight for example, if you are extremely insulin sensitive, you will be far more likely to put on favorable lean weight than garbage fat fluff.
If you’ve been slamming high glycemic carbs for weeks on end, and are getting fat as shit, it’s likely your insulin sensitivity is down the toilet, and basically to continue to make physique progression and gain muscle you will be required to reduce your carb intake, get leaner, and resensitize yourself to insulin. The higher your insulin sensitivity the better in the world of bodybuilding, so that’s just another awesome benefit Melanotan II has. I recently got some melanotan 2 just for my Scandinavian/Irish ass to try out. I am against tanning beds but, I will be using them to see the color change and any sexual sides. I thought this positive increase in insulin sensitivity was definitely something I look forward to.

Max

Great write up Max, I never knew that about MT2, I have only used it sparingly in the past to help tan without burning to crisp in the summer. Thank you.

[JohnMcc]

Using an Arimidex only to raise free and total testosterone in low test individuals:

As men age, serum testosterone levels decrease, a factor that may contribute to some aspects of age-related physiological deterioration. Although androgen replacement has been shown to have beneficial effects in frankly hypogonadal men, its use in elderly men with borderline hypogonadism is controversial. Furthermore, current testosterone replacement methods have important limitations.
We investigated the ability of the orally administered aromatase inhibitor, anastrozole, to increase endogenous testosterone production in 37 men with testosterone levels less than 350 ng/dl.
Subjects were randomized in a double-blind fashion to the following 12-wk oral regimens: group 1: anastrozole 1 mg daily. group 2: anastrozole 1 mg twice weekly; and group 3: placebo daily. Hormone levels, quality of life, sexual function, benign prostate hyperplasia severity, prostate-specific antigen, and measures of safety were compared among groups.
Free Test Changes
Group 1- 99 ± 31 to 207 ± 65 ng/dl in and Group 2- 115 ± 37 to 178 ± 55 ng/dl
Total Testosterone Changed
Group 1- 343 ± 61 to 572 ± 139 ng/dl
Group 2- 397 ± 106 to 520 ± 91 ng/dl
*Serum LH levels increased
*Serum estradiol levels decreased
The data demonstrated that aromatase inhibition increases serum bioavailable and total testosterone levels to the youthful normal range in older men with mild hypogonadism. Serum estradiol levels decrease modestly but remain within the normal male range.

Max

Oxford Academic-JCEM
Study

This sounds like an incredibly useful tool for overall health and longevity.

[maxmuscle1]

Great write up Max, I never knew that about MT2, I have only used it sparingly in the past to help tan without burning to crisp in the summer. Thank you.

Definitely adding this summer. Nice side effect for the [emoji533]

Max

[StayFocused1313]

Cardarine (GW) has without question helped me multiple runs with endurance at 10mg a day, I have read that bumping to 20mg starts to turn on the fat burning switch for it.

A Metabolomic Study of the PPARδ Agonist GW501516 for Enhancing Running Endurance in Kunming Mice - PubMed (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25943561/)


Ostarine I get feel as if I get less strains and pains with. Similar to a low dose deca add in for joint health.

The Selective Androgen Receptor Modulator Ostarine Improves Bone Healing in Ovariectomized Rats - PubMed (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31531719/)
This link is more focused on the regenerative rate of bone healing.


I’m very curious about Epitalon for increasing life span but the cost of it at effective doses seems unreasonable.


Another one I’ve been reading about is frag 176-191 for fat burning.


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[JohnMcc]

Cardarine (GW) has without question helped me multiple runs with endurance at 10mg a day, I have read that bumping to 20mg starts to turn on the fat burning switch for it.

A Metabolomic Study of the PPARδ Agonist GW501516 for Enhancing Running Endurance in Kunming Mice - PubMed (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25943561/)


Ostarine I get feel as if I get less strains and pains with. Similar to a low dose deca add in for joint health.

The Selective Androgen Receptor Modulator Ostarine Improves Bone Healing in Ovariectomized Rats - PubMed (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31531719/)
This link is more focused on the regenerative rate of bone healing.


I’m very curious about Epitalon for increasing life span but the cost of it at effective doses seems unreasonable.


Another one I’ve been reading about is frag 176-191 for fat burning.


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Good info thank you for adding to the thread. I have taken Cardarine up to 20mg and you can feel it pretty strong at that dose, it definitely burnt up my blood glucose at that dose. I could feel it at work somedays, my blood sugar would get low but not too low, enough to feel like my body was turning to the fat for energy and hunger would shortly follow. I like it at both doses.

Osta has helped my joints a lot as well, never tried deca but the joint healing effects sound similar between the two.

[murph]

My opinion of natty is nothing but food and weights, of you supplement anything technically not natty... I am being a little extreme just for fun but really where do You draw the line

[maxmuscle1]

My favorite of the different protocols I have been given by gurus/experts; for this particular IFG1 :

Igf 1 DES- ($70 per mg)1000mcg avg price
all injections to be done immediately pre workout at they only have a few minutes of active life.
Week 1: 25-50 mcg bilateral
Week 2: 50 mcg “””
Week 3: 75mcg “””
Week 4: 100 mcg “””

Max

[JohnMcc]

My favorite of the different protocols I have been given by gurus/experts; for this particular IFG1 :

Igf 1 DES- ($70 per mg)1000mcg avg price
all injections to be done immediately pre workout at they only have a few minutes of active life.
Week 1: 25-50 mcg bilateral
Week 2: 50 mcg “””
Week 3: 75mcg “””
Week 4: 100 mcg “””

Max

Thank you Max. Have you ever tried LR3, if so what are your thoughts, comparisons, pros, and cons between the two?

[JohnMcc]

I have started seeing more positive attention to L-Carnitine. More info needs to be gathered before I post on it.

[JohnMcc]

I have started seeing more positive attention to L-Carnitine. More info needs to be gathered before I post on it.

[Dth]

What is “natty”?

[cherrybombfitnes]

So mk677 works but ghrp6 won’t because it’s injected? It’s still the same thing basically. Injecting is the only thing you can’t do?? Doesn’t make much sense. Either way. I’d do mk677, gw501516, and long jack root plus shit loads of Citrulline malate.


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[Dth]

In my opinion all natural isn’t even weights. You are just “naturally” that way. Just my opinion