* * HOW TO DETERMINE AAS HALF LIFE - MEMBER DISCUSSION THREAD * *

[Riggs]

On the regular I get asked about the half lives of certain gear and how the half elimination period is determined.

As far as I know there is a direct correlation between the # of carbons and the half life.

To start I've provided a list of esters and how many carbons are in the carbon chain. If you have different data or this list is outdated then pls let me know.

Here's a brief explanation on the knowledge I have to date.

Steroid esters are a steroid molecule with a carbon chain attached. Each ester is unique having its own # of carbon atoms.

The carbon chain, is directly involved in determining the half-life of the steroid, and solubility in the bloodstream.

So let's look at the list that I believe to be most accurate.

Formate-1 carbon ester
Acetate-2 carbon ester
Propionate-3 carbon ester
Butyrate-4 carbon ester
Valerate-5 carbon ester
Hexanoate-6 carbon ester
Heptanoate-7 carbon ester
Enanthate-7 carbon ester
Octanoate-8 carbon ester
Cypionate-8 carbon ester
Nonanoate-9 carbon ester
Decnoate-10 carbon ester
Undecanoate-11 carbon ester

The higher the # of carbon atoms in the ester, the less soluble the steroid is in the blood stream, and the longer the half-life. Two enzymes...esterase and hydrolysate...cleave off the carbon atoms from the carbon chain.

Finally the carbon atoms are removed and the steroid is activated.

HERE'S WHAT I NEED TO KNOW AND CAN'T FIGURE OUT...."IS THE # OF CARBON ATOMS IN THE CHAIN THE ONLY DETERMINING FACTOR OR IS THERE MORE TO THIS?"

Pls guys offer up all you know, can find thru a search online, or asking fellow hobbyists. Post any and all you can find. It might seem insignificant only to prove a key piece of the puzzle at a later date.

This is a thought provoking thread. Meaning I have acquired some knowledge over the last year & a half on the subject of pharmacokinetics for the purpose of knowing how to determine the half/full elimination periods of the AAS we commonly use. If you think I'm wrong or misinformed then I encourage you to show me the inaccuracies or identify the data, I have provided, that is outdated. What would be ideal in that situation is to simultaneously educate me on this subject and tell me exactly how to determine the elimination period so I can do it on my own ......aaaaand my search will end!

Point is no judgment in this thread or drama. This is for the purpose of seeking knowledge and sharing knowledge. Whatever you've got or can find pls POST IT.

If an answer is not posted soon then who knows maybe in a few yrs a member will have an answer for us.

Now let's compile some info......

[maxmuscle1]

Just some old stuff I came across looking through my notes:

ARTICLES CURRENTLY RESEARCHING

Half-life explicitly describes the time it takes for the blood plasma concentration of a substance to halve (plasma half-life) its steady-state when circulating in the full blood of an organism. This measurement is useful in medicine and pharmacology because it helps determine how much of a drug needs to be taken and how frequently it needs to be taken if a certain average amount is needed constantly. In contrast, the stability of a substance direct in plasma is described with plasma stability that is essential to ensure accurate analysis of drugs in plasma and for Drug discovery.
The relationship between the biological and plasma half-lives of a substance can be complex depending on the substance in question, due to factors including accumulation in tissues (protein binding), active metabolites, and receptor interactions. The amount taken, route of administration, preparation , metabolism, environment. So all the charts listed are guesses.

Just a note about Absorption of Esters; below is a study of Enanthate vs. Cypionate as studied by the NIH scientists:
The pharmacokinetic profile of testosterone enanthate was studied in a regime of multiple dosing and the testosterone level was reported to present a Cmax above 1200 ng/dl after 24 hours of the last dose. The concentration decreased sequentially until it reached 600 ng/dl after one week. The pharmacokinetic profile of testosterone enanthate presented differences depending on the administered dose in which the tmax was shifted to a range of 36-48 hours. The plasma testosterone level plateaued below the therapeutic range after 3-4 weeks. This reports showed that the different formulation of testosterone enanthate and testosterone cypionate generates a different profile and thus, they are not therapeutically equivalent.
Ester info: Steroid esters are compounds containing a steroid moiety which bears a carboxylic acid ester group.

Testosterone propionate 4.5 days
Testosterone enanthate presents a long half-life in the range of 7-9 days
Testosterone cypionate: The half-life of testosterone cypionate is one of the longest, being approximately of 8 days
It was developed by the company Pharmacia and Upjohn
*Testosterone Acetate: could not be determined due to lack of scientific data (although I saw roid sites saying longer than propionate)*The drug was first described in 1936 and was one of the first androgen esters and esters of testosterone to be synthesized. It is hydrophobic; practically insoluble in water
Testosterone no ester: elimination half life: 2-4hrs.

This is just some stuff. So many factors and things happen inside our bodies and there are tiny, little differences with compounds that change inside of plus or in the lab by adding or not adding a certain part of the science.

Max
-conflicting/confusing usually comes down to money w studies but science is science.....or is it??

[Mattymoo]

I wonder if any of the boys who brew or who understand the process of manufacturing raws will have some interesting information.

[maxmuscle1]

I wonder if any of the boys who brew or who understand the process of manufacturing raws will have some interesting information.

Right? But they are in another subforum. It all has play action though. I am fascinated! [emoji123][emoji106]

Max

[Riggs]

I wonder if any of the boys who brew or who understand the process of manufacturing raws will have some interesting information.

Not one that I've worked with or talked to knows anything about Pharmacokinetics.

[Riggs]

Just some old stuff I came across looking through my notes:

ARTICLES CURRENTLY RESEARCHING

Half-life explicitly describes the time it takes for the blood plasma concentration of a substance to halve (plasma half-life) its steady-state when circulating in the full blood of an organism. This measurement is useful in medicine and pharmacology because it helps determine how much of a drug needs to be taken and how frequently it needs to be taken if a certain average amount is needed constantly. In contrast, the stability of a substance direct in plasma is described with plasma stability that is essential to ensure accurate analysis of drugs in plasma and for Drug discovery.
The relationship between the biological and plasma half-lives of a substance can be complex depending on the substance in question, due to factors including accumulation in tissues (protein binding), active metabolites, and receptor interactions. The amount taken, route of administration, preparation , metabolism, environment. So all the charts listed are guesses.

Just a note about Absorption of Esters; below is a study of Enanthate vs. Cypionate as studied by the NIH scientists:
The pharmacokinetic profile of testosterone enanthate was studied in a regime of multiple dosing and the testosterone level was reported to present a Cmax above 1200 ng/dl after 24 hours of the last dose. The concentration decreased sequentially until it reached 600 ng/dl after one week. The pharmacokinetic profile of testosterone enanthate presented differences depending on the administered dose in which the tmax was shifted to a range of 36-48 hours. The plasma testosterone level plateaued below the therapeutic range after 3-4 weeks. This reports showed that the different formulation of testosterone enanthate and testosterone cypionate generates a different profile and thus, they are not therapeutically equivalent.
Ester info: Steroid esters are compounds containing a steroid moiety which bears a carboxylic acid ester group.

Testosterone propionate 4.5 days
Testosterone enanthate presents a long half-life in the range of 7-9 days
Testosterone cypionate: The half-life of testosterone cypionate is one of the longest, being approximately of 8 days
It was developed by the company Pharmacia and Upjohn
*Testosterone Acetate: could not be determined due to lack of scientific data (although I saw roid sites saying longer than propionate)*The drug was first described in 1936 and was one of the first androgen esters and esters of testosterone to be synthesized. It is hydrophobic; practically insoluble in water
Testosterone no ester: elimination half life: 2-4hrs.

This is just some stuff. So many factors and things happen inside our bodies and there are tiny, little differences with compounds that change inside of plus or in the lab by adding or not adding a certain part of the science.

Max
-conflicting/confusing usually comes down to money w studies but science is science.....or is it??

What you've summarized or quoted states Test P half life at or around 4.5 days. So does Pubchem which I love on NCBI.

60946

Wikipedia states Test P half life is .8 days or 19 hours.

60947

Which is it?

Starting to see why I said "fuck this I'm gonna find out how to determine the elimination periods on my own.

[Riggs]

The pharmacokinetic profile of testosterone enanthate was studied in a regime of multiple dosing and the testosterone level was reported to present a Cmax above 1200 ng/dl after 24 hours of the last dose. The concentration decreased sequentially until it reached 600 ng/dl after one week.

I read the same study in an Upjohn Test C leaflet.

This is the exact study I read that prompted me to pin high carbon chain esters more frequently. I had always said that even with long esters there's an initial spike in blood plasma levels so when I read this I finally had something to back my claim.

As a matter of fact I found the leaflet and mentioned the results of the study to Weapon while discussing the topic of this thread maybe a yr ago.

[maxmuscle1]

I love Iso/hex esters sooo much. I wonder because of our personal metabolism/biology/genetic makeup...do we all react differently to certain compounds? Do certain compounds only work in certain people? I say, Yes. Otherwise we would have Jay Culters, Phil Heath, Ronnies, amd Arnold’s in every gym! That is far from the case. PED’s make an impact for sure and are definitely part of it; but there has to be something said for mental choice, resilience with training/diet and genetics as a whole. -Just a general statement-

Max [emoji120][emoji123][emoji1690]

[maxmuscle1]

This states Test P half life at or around 4.5 days. So does Pubchem which I love on NCBI.

60946

Wikipedia states Test P half life is .8 days or 19 hours.

60947

Which is it?

Starting to see why I said "fuck this I'm gonna find out how to determine the elimination periods on my own.

See. That is what I am talking about. We gotta experiment to just find out what works for us personally and what works for others. Very cool subject [emoji106][emoji1690][emoji123][emoji108]

Max

[Riggs]

See. That is what I am talking about. We gotta experiment to just find out what works for us personally and what works for others. Very cool subject [emoji106][emoji1690][emoji123][emoji108]

Max

I do believe that both screenshots I provided are in reference to Biological Half Life but I'm honestly not sure now. I need to go back and look again.

[Riggs]

See. That is what I am talking about. We gotta experiment to just find out what works for us personally and what works for others. Very cool subject [emoji106][emoji1690][emoji123][emoji108]

Max

My personal opinion is that the individuals overall health, more specifically organ health in the context of an AAS user, is a big determining factor.

[Riggs]

Damn this explains a lot.....click the "Clearance (Pharmacology) link on the bottom.

Clearance (pharmacology) - Wikipedia (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clearance_(pharmacology))


60948
60949
60950

[Riggs]

This actually addresses two different things......how lo g does it take for the drug to reach peak blood plasma levels? This states 4 - 5 x the half life. So if Test C half life is 8 days then it'll reach peak blood levels in 32 - 40 days.

It also states that it's common with drugs that have a long half life to front load. Which I do with all long esters.

This is a helpful find.

60952

[maxmuscle1]

Loves It! [emoji122][emoji108]

Max

[Riggs]

Loves It! [emoji122][emoji108]

Max

You gotta read this one....

Clearance (pharmacology) - Wikipedia (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clearance_(pharmacology))

[maxmuscle1]

You gotta read this one....

Clearance (pharmacology) - Wikipedia (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clearance_(pharmacology))

That is badass! It explains in depth about the {Why} and further supports what you previously said about organs. I love this stuff; each time you read something; then learn more; you can go back over the information again fully loaded with more understanding of some of this technical lingo and mathematical symbols.
This[emoji3593] quote:
Each substance has a specific clearance that depends on how the substance is handled by the nephron.

That hit home, especially thinking of Tren! [emoji122][emoji106]

Max
#anabolicgeeks

[JohnMcc]

Where's Derrick from MPMD when you need him lol

[maxmuscle1]

Where's Derrick from MPMD when you need him lol

Canada in the Basement. [emoji108]

Max

[JohnMcc]

Canada in the Basement. [emoji108]

Max

I actually like listening to him he's a nice mix of bro science and legitimate science, he comes across as intelligent and well spoken.

[maxmuscle1]

I actually like listening to him he's a nice mix of bro science and legitimate science, he comes across as intelligent and well spoken.

He’s cool! Vancouver, BC is my top 2 places to live! I watch him so; obviously he keeps it interesting.

Max

[Riggs]

Now we're doing what PAIN started BOP for.....sharing and acquiring knowledge on the science of AAS/BB'n and using the board as a platform for Sponsor reviews, uplifting others and building relationships with like minded individuals.

Yes in this FB & Social Media era the board must evolve or become obsolete but that's not gonna stop ol' Riggsy from doing my best to keep the board true to its roots.


Where's Derrick from MPMD when you need him lol


I actually like listening to him he's a nice mix of bro science and legitimate science, he comes across as intelligent and well spoken.


He’s cool! Vancouver, BC is my top 2 places to live! I watch him so; obviously he keeps it interesting.

Max

[Riggs]

I APPRECIATE THE CONVERSATION GUYS......REALLY DO!

REP'S GUYS

[Riggs]

I love Iso/hex esters sooo much. I wonder because of our personal metabolism/biology/genetic makeup...do we all react differently to certain compounds? Do certain compounds only work in certain people? I say, Yes. Otherwise we would have Jay Culters, Phil Heath, Ronnies, amd Arnold’s in every gym! That is far from the case. PED’s make an impact for sure and are definitely part of it; but there has to be something said for mental choice, resilience with training/diet and genetics as a whole. -Just a general statement-

Max [emoji120][emoji123][emoji1690]

Just noticed the "genetics" comment......I agree 100%.

[maxmuscle1]

Just noticed the "genetics" comment......I agree 100%.

It definitely plays a huge role. Some downplay that part but it is quite a large part. IMO [emoji120][emoji106]

Max

[JohnMcc]

It definitely plays a huge role. Some downplay that part but it is quite a large part. IMO [emoji120][emoji106]

Max

I agree genetics is huge, and that is coming from someone honest enough to admit I have very average genetics. No matter how much I do right someone with great genetics can make my progress look like newbie gains because of how fast their muscles grow and mature.

[Riggs]

I agree genetics is huge, and that is coming from someone honest enough to admit I have very average genetics. No matter how much I do right someone with great genetics can make my progress look like newbie gains because of how fast their muscles grow and mature.

Me too brother. It took me until @ age 25 to really realize that I'm an extremely poor responder to exercise. I'm 6'3", fluctuate between 220 - 240lbs (I hit 217 after my last surgery and the gyms being closed) , 39" sleeve length, 34" legs and I'm literally built like a monkey. I'm 75" tall and have a 78" wing span. Thankfully I build arms, traps, and back very easily so I'm not at a complete loss when it comes to genetics. However that lack of symmetry combined with my poor spine integrity has lead to multiple back/neck surgeries. I have to isolate my core at least twice as much to achieve the same proportional look and keep proper balance between my back and core.

Thankfully in my late 20's I was able to run p harma GH/AAS and in that time frame I completely morphed and sculpted my physique.

It came down to mainly two things....knowledge and better understanding of my specific response to exercise and AAS and access to p.harma AAS/GH.

[JohnMcc]

Me too brother. It took me until @ age 25 to really realize that I'm an extremely poor responder to exercise. I'm 6'3", fluctuate between 220 - 240lbs (I hit 217 after my last surgery and the gyms being closed) , 39" sleeve length, 34" legs and I'm literally built like a monkey. I'm 75" tall and have a 78" wing span. Thankfully I build arms, traps, and back very easily so I'm not at a complete loss when it comes to genetics. However that lack of symmetry combined with my poor spine integrity has lead to multiple back/neck surgeries. I have to isolate my core at least twice as much to achieve the same proportional look and keep proper balance between my back and core.

Thankfully in my late 20's I was able to run p harma GH/AAS and in that time frame I completely morphed and sculpted my physique.

It came down to mainly two things....knowledge and better understanding of my specific response to exercise and AAS and access to p.harma AAS/GH.

I'm in the same boat im 6' tall but have a 6'5" wingspan. I however lag in my arms and shoulders because like you said the rest of my monkey frame is thick built like my back, chest, waist, and legs. I prioritize the lagging areas and hit them 3-5 times a week with varying intensities. I would love the chance to run gh and things but those aren't options, I made a promise to not use gear anymore to my wife and intend to stick to it maybe the occasional sarm or mk677 other than that I have to build my dream physique natty. Just gotta be strict, determined, and do things the most optimal way for growth.

Youre an awesome guy Riggs, thank you for the reps. GET SOME!

[JohnMcc]

As far as the original topic stated I think half lives are a rough guide at best because each persons body metabolizes things at such individual rates. Like for me yk11 is supposed to be a short half life of a few hours, yet I was able to feel its effects for days laterand o ly took a small dose of 10mg. So thats just a small example of how unique each person's body is when it comes to these compounds.

Sorry thats another a very science backed answer but its what I've seen to be true for myself.

[Newbienick]

If anyone wants access to any studies (that cost money to read) there's a good chance I'll be able to get them for free. Message us.

[Riggs]

If anyone wants access to any studies (that cost money to read) there's a good chance I'll be able to get them for free. Message us.

Appreciate it!

Who is "us?"

[Newbienick]

Us is me. Aussie crap english. Hit us up if you want to borrow X. Tell us what your plan is etc.

I do a bit of study. So I can access full papers for most things through my institutions log in