Cutting Cycle Help

[BIG_NICE]

I'm considering running a cutting compound as opposed to a bulking compound for a few reasons. With diet, we all know a cutting compound can be used for a lean bulk. I want dry gains and don't want the bloated, blown up look that is a dead give away that you're on something. I'd rather have a steady, consistent progression that's less obvious I'm using. Also, I could afford to lose a little body fat, and a cutter would aid in this. I'm looking for some suggestions on how long I could safely run this cycle. If I'm using an oral, when do I implement it?

Test E - weeks 1-12
Winny or another oral - when would you add it in? how long?


I apologize if these are stupid questions, but I'm trying to plan out what would be best for my situation. I'm looking to bulk but I cannot do it in a manner that's obvious bc of my profession and standing in the community. This is my main reason for avoiding dbol, deca, or other compounds that are generally considered bulking agents. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

PCT - HCG necessary? I've typically used clomid and nolva, but I'm considering hcg so that I feel better when coming off.

[BIG_NICE]

I forgot to add...
age - 30
cycles - 3
height - 6"3, 235
bf - 15%
thinking of dosing the test e at 750 and the winny at 50. Like I said, these are just thoughts so I'm open to suggestions of dosages that might better suit my goals. Thanks.

[exphys88]

Ok, first compound that comes to mind when cutting is tren, second is mast or winny. But, really any compound can be used if your diet is spot on. The whole point of running gear while cutting is to retain lbm while in a caloric deficit, and w tren you can actually gain muscle while cutting.

Hcg should always be run during your cycle at 500 iu twice weekly and should be dropped 4 days before starting pct. do not run it during pct.

[gator-mclusky]

With only 3 cycles, you could use the 750 mgs test or get by with 500 mgs imo. Less bloat too. Winstrol would be excellent. 50-75 mgs e/d for last 10 wks. Yes its an oral but all c-17 Alkalaids are not created equal. It isnt as harsh as say a Dbol or Anadrol. Im assuming you are doing a 12 wk cycle. If you were doing a 16 wk cycle I would suggest EQ @ 600 mgs e/w. It takes a lil longer to kick in than most but those are lean dry quality gains!

And remember....there are NO stupid questions!!!!!!!!! Feel free to ask away.

As for hcg....some like taking it 250 iu 2x e/w. Some dont. Your choice. I personally only use a blast every 8-10 wks and my cycles are long like 10 months. Personal preference on that one. As for using it for PCT. Ive said for many yrs 5000 iu's spread out over 5 days, then proper Clomid/Nolva. Works like a dream for me.

[beanlicker]

Thanks for adding your stats and it sounds like you've got a great frame to work with.

I agree with Exphys88 about HCG usage and suggesting winny as a good cutting agent. Masteron is great for cutting and hardening, but it is most effective on a very lean physique.

I also agree with Gator on the Test dosage and on the PCT use (Clomid and Nolva).

With regards to orals, Winny and Var are at the top of my list for cutting. I always start a cycle with orals because unlike Test, an oral will start working the day you start dosing while you wait for the test to kick in. I would not run any oral longer than 6 weeks and 4 weeks is often the minimum stopping point in order to lessen the stress put on your liver.

BTW, I happen to prefer Var because besides adding strength, vascularity and giving a hardening effect it has been shown to display some weight loss properties. At 190, I get good results with 50 mgs ED for 4 to 6 weeks.

I would also consider running HGH or at least HGH Frag to assist you in the weight loss.

BTW, none of these are stupid questions bro.....Just make sure you do as much research as you can on your own. Although we are all willing to offer advice and point you in the right direction, you won't learn if you don't do your own homework.

One last thought, you may consider taking test prop in place of test E, for the last two weeks while you wait for the test E to clear to start PCT.

Hope this helps,
BL

[sensitivenips]

beanlicker hit the nail on the head for this one

[BIG_NICE]

BL - you may be right on point with the test prop. my boy has been saying to run the prop all along, but i think I'd prefer the E. However, running the prop for the last two weeks might be really beneficial to keep gains. I honestly never thought of that. Great advice. I've taken orals before, but never a "cutter" like winny. I know how harsh they are on the liver, so maybe ill run it like this...
Test E - weeks 1-12
winny - weeks 4-12? (open for suggestions)
test prop - 13-14 while I wait for pct (considering this)

clomid and nolva for pct as always. Still leaning towards HCG for pct bc i'm curious to see if it'll help with the depression sides and mental fatigue of coming off. I don't care about testicular atrophy on cycle, but would it be beneficial to take a few doses of HCG during cycle to slow this process? Due to costs, I'd rather not run it the whole cycle if I don't absolutely have to. Thanks again guys. I can tell this is a great board already.

[BIG_NICE]

Just to throw this in there.... my main goal is a bulk! I want size and lean muscle. I just have a position in the community where people will notice right away if I blow the fuck up or bloat up, which is my reasoning for choosing what I'm considering. I care about the size way more than being super lean. By the time she sees my abs she's already in the bedroom. Lol, it's the broad shoulders and back filling out that suit that gets it done.

[sensitivenips]

9 weeks on an oral sounds a little overload still especially when dealing with one such as winny known for taxing on the liver. exphys88 commented on a previous thread about hcg shutting you down while on pct. i dont know the sciences behind hcg too well, but from what i do understand i would only use it in the 2nd half or final stages of my cycle to help assist in going into my pct. dont forget liv 52 while using an oral, and prepare for some hair loss/thinning.

[beanlicker]

9 weeks on an oral sounds a little overload still especially when dealing with one such as winny known for taxing on the liver. exphys88 commented on a previous thread about hcg shutting you down while on pct. i dont know the sciences behind hcg too well, but from what i do understand i would only use it in the 2nd half or final stages of my cycle to help assist in going into my pct. dont forget liv 52 while using an oral, and prepare for some hair loss/thinning.

Spot on.....don't exceed 6 weeks with the oral winny. I only use HCG during cycle, then four days later start nolva and clomid.

Like Eexphys88 advised, don't use HCG during PCT!

[PAiN]

winny - weeks 4-12? (open for suggestions)

Run the winny weeks 8-12

That will give you enough time to harden up and drop the water weight from the test just before PCT.