First Ever Cut/Prime

[noarch]

Looking forward to the New Year....and now that I'm past all the holiday eating Olympics, it's time to start thinking about gearing up for 2015.

Some of you followed along this summer while I was experimenting with my first ever cycle. I'm getting ready for Cycle #2 this spring, and wanting to really make some headway this year. I've always tried to get bigger, and never paid much attention to bodyfat. But now that I feel like I've "unlocked" the keys to putting on size, I want to really try to look great by summer. So, here's the plan....

I'm going to start a new, bigger cycle in March. So, I've got about 10 weeks to get ready for it, and I want to make sure I'm in the best condition possible, before I start. I'm sitting at about 15-16% bf right now (navy circumference method), and I want to get that down to around 10% in the next 10 weeks. Does that sound do-able??

I'm spending the next few days working out calories and macros, and I'm gonna re-start my morning cardio sessions this week.

When you guys are leaning out and priming for a cycle, do you cut carbs way back? Or just cut calories and keep carbs in the same percentage as when you're bulking? Has anybody had any luck with carb cycling??

How about cardio? If the goal in a cut is a calorie deficit, should I aim for more of that deficit coming from fewer calories, or from more cardio??

Or, like everything else, should I just experiment and see what works? LOL. Never even thought about trying to lean out before, since I've always been the skinny guy.....so this is breaking new ground for me! LOL.

Interested to hear what's worked for you guys!

(Will start posting up about cycle plans during January!)

[noarch]

Oh, also....do any of you guys mess around with nutrient timing? Or is that getting too granular for what it's worth??

[Largerthannormal]

Noarch, i like that you did your homework and even came across cycle primeing! not many people are aware of this method and it is the best by far method one can use to put on some size

Priming is very similar to how one would prep for a show.

One key thing to keep in mind is " do it slow" do not pull tons of carbs right off the bat. Slowly pull them maybe 20-30 grams for the first week then maybe another 20 each consecutive week after that.

The slower you pull and more time you have the better you results will be.

yes you can get to 10% in 10 weeks easy ive pulled up to 1.5-2% a week in a safe method and retained a ton of LBM.

Now first though what is your over all goal? do you want to look good for summer or prep for you next bulk? keep in mind you will loose some LBM coming down!

[noarch]

Noarch, i like that you did your homework and even came across cycle primeing! not many people are aware of this method and it is the best by far method one can use to put on some size

Priming is very similar to how one would prep for a show.

One key thing to keep in mind is " do it slow" do not pull tons of carbs right off the bat. Slowly pull them maybe 20-30 grams for the first week then maybe another 20 each consecutive week after that.

The slower you pull and more time you have the better you results will be.

yes you can get to 10% in 10 weeks easy ive pulled up to 1.5-2% a week in a safe method and retained a ton of LBM.

Now first though what is your over all goal? do you want to look good for summer or prep for you next bulk? keep in mind you will loose some LBM coming down!

Thanks for the reply Largerthannormal...my overall, long term goal (like, within a couple of years) is to hit and maintain 200-210 at 10% bf (maybe a little lower in summer). I have a long way to go...I'm sitting at 180 and 15-16%. So my goal for the next 10 weeks is to try and lean out to about 10% if I can before trying to add on anymore size. My first cycle, I kept 10 lbs after PCT, and my bf ended up about where it started. I'm assuming my next cycle, I'll probably do about the same, so I want to start it with a lower bf. And as long as I'm cutting, I like the idea of thinking of it as priming for the bulk that's to come.

Why slowly drop the carbs? Keeps from shocking your body into starvation mode??

As for looking good for summer....meh. Not that important to me....but nice if the schedules all align and I'm at my peak during the summer.

[Largerthannormal]

The point of going slow is the entire idea, The idea is to " create an environment " A very special type of one at that. by doing this slow over a 8-10 week process it will make it very easy along side of adding you anabolics you will be amazed the amount of LBM you will put on , Dorian was the master at this!

Alot of your big time pros use leaving the stage as their big prime as it is perfect timing to blow up, same goes for alot of my friends, in the two weeks after their shows they will stack on 15-20lbs lol just from re introducing carbs after that long pull.

Now there is a few ways to do this, but being that you have 10 weeks I would use the method we are talking about

as for me, I got as low as 80 grams but being off cycle you tend to loose alot of LBM ( not my suggestion to go that low) . Everyone is a little bit different on how they react its just something your going to have to play with but thats the over all idea.

one last thing, when you lower your carbs make sure you up your protein to help keep that muscle brother!

[noarch]

The point of going slow is the entire idea, The idea is to " create an environment " A very special type of one at that. by doing this slow over a 8-10 week process it will make it very easy along side of adding you anabolics you will be amazed the amount of LBM you will put on , Dorian was the master at this!

Alot of your big time pros use leaving the stage as their big prime as it is perfect timing to blow up, same goes for alot of my friends, in the two weeks after their shows they will stack on 15-20lbs lol just from re introducing carbs after that long pull.

Now there is a few ways to do this, but being that you have 10 weeks I would use the method we are talking about

as for me, I got as low as 80 grams but being off cycle you tend to loose alot of LBM ( not my suggestion to go that low) . Everyone is a little bit different on how they react its just something your going to have to play with but thats the over all idea.

one last thing, when you lower your carbs make sure you up your protein to help keep that muscle brother!

Yeah...that's the idea. Even though I'll never be on stage, the thinking is to "create an environment" where adding the gear and the carbs/calories in March makes me put on some substantial size.

The way I've got it figured right now, my maintenance level is about 3200 calories. I was going to shoot for 2500 to cut on. 250-260 protein, 80-90 fat, and 175-185 carbs, which is about 40/30/30.

So if I'm hearing you right, though, I should take a few weeks to get to those numbers. (Or, should I start with those numbers, and keep removing carbs as my weight goes down??) I've been focusing on the calorie number more than anything. But, typing that out, I wonder if the ratios would be better with fewer carbs....

Also, I work out in the evening, before dinner. What do you think about carbs in the evening on a cut, especially relative to also working out in the evening??

Really appreciate all the input...

[Largerthannormal]

One quick question before I get to deep into the response.

As for your maintenance cals, did you use some type of online calculator for that? 3200 is a tad high just at a quick glance. Some people are different but i thought id ask, I hold at less cals and I am a little bigger. Although bf% makes a diff and activity level and reverse dieting can make you hold a tad higher as well.. I wont get in too deep on that part as i am at 620grams carbs and holding, lol but we wont look at that right now as it doesnt pertain here

[noarch]

Yeah, I used the Katch McArdle formula for calculating BMR. 21.6 X lean mass in kg. + 370. Then I multiplied that by an "activity factor" of 1.75, which is fairly high, but I work out every day. It seems to be about right, as my weight has leveled out over the last 6 weeks or so. (I weigh in every morning, and I've been between 177 and 179 everyday for the last month or two). I thought it sounded high too, but the scale not moving tells me I'm in the right ballpark.

I'm assuming that I will keep lowering the number until the scale moves....

How do you figure your calorie needs? Or do you go by feel??

[Largerthannormal]

There is a few things that effect whats going on esp towards the end of a bulk you body starts to maintain at a higher cal and a higher carb than what actually plays out in math which is why we increase cals as we slow down. Thats how I am in that 600 mark at about 3600 cals but im 195lbs and that is no where near my normal maintenance even though im holding here at the moment.

I use LBM x 15 for males. and 13 for females always gets really close. 3200 seems like a bulk diet at 180lbs.. I am guessing this is because you are coming off a bulk phase is why you so high

do you have ur diet written out or just off memory?

in a sense the basic idea is keep where you are.. pull 20-30 grams this week of carbs.. watch the scale and mirror then we re adjust each week. increase protein.

again i dont know exactly where you were or are.

[noarch]

Ok that makes sense. I did my first cycle from July to November this past year. Started at 169, bulked to 189, landed at 179 when all was said and done. PCT ended November 16.

My diet started out written down, and added up within an inch of its life....there's a spreadsheet I use (I posted it on here a while back...I'll try to find the link), so I know how much I'm eating. Since my bulk ended, though, I've been working from memory and scaling back a little bit here and there. But I can easily get a handle on how much I'm eating when I start getting back into it. (To be honest, I stopped paying nearly enough attention during the month between Thanksgiving dinner and Christmas dinner!)

LBM x 15 puts me at 2282 calories for maintenance, which is less than I had been planning to start cutting on! Maybe I need to get back on track somewhere around 2300, and see what that does. Then start pulling carbs from there.