Protein intake while on cycle

[GearHeaded]

I've posted this up elsewhere but figured I'd throw it on here to and see how interested and active the 'diet' area of the brotherhood is

IF YOUR ENHANCED AND ON A CYCLE OF STEROIDS YOU DO NOT NEED NEAR AS MUCH PROTEIN AS YOU WOULD IF YOUR NATTY.

Nitrogen retention, protein synthesis, and nutrient partitioning are greatly increased while on cycle. You become way way more efficient at utilizing protein

"ok well so what, shouldn't I still eat as much protein as I can to build muscle?" .. umm, NO !

it does not work that way. if you want to grow and gain muscle you need to be in a calorie surplus and be efficient with the calories you take in (meaning not wasting energy).. all your energy and efforts need to go towards muscle building. well, too much protein = wasted energy expenditure. protein is the only food we intake that is highly thermogenic, meaning it requires a bunch of energy (i.e., calories) to process. for every 100 calories of protein you take in, 30 calories are burned to metabolize that.

that is actually such a high thermogenic effect that I design diets for clients that are wanting to lose weight and use protein intake, all by itself, to put them in a further calorie deficit (without having to reduce their calories).

SO , if your running a cycle and you want to grow and get as big as possible, then do NOT over do the protein. the AAS is already making you way more efficient at using protein for muscle building. let that advantage guide you and get in just enough protein to provide the raw material (essential amino acids) to turn on protein synthesis and 'manufacture' new tissue.


Now if your going from being off cycle and natty and your protein requirements are much higher, to going on a cycle of steroids and bulking and needing to increase calories but lower protein,, what do you do? seems counter productive right? if your needing to bulk you need to up your protein right? no,
UP YOUR CARBS BIG TIME!!

When your on cycle and trying to grow Carbs need to be your most abundant macro nutrient. Carbs are "Anabolic " as hell for you (though its 'indirect' anabolism) . how are Carbs anabolic?

well, again your on steroids and your going to be way better at nutrient partitioning. this means your going to be able to drive way more carbs/glucose into muscle cells to be stored as glycogen.
this process in and of itself will increase the size of your muscles. as CarboHYDRATES, yes Hydrate, will drive more water intercellularly (muscle is made up of 79% water.. more water in the cell means more muscle).. now heres the anabolic part. Amino Acids (the building blocks of muscle) are brought into muscle cells BY catching a ride with the insulin and glucose that gets pushed into muscle cells.
Carbs/glucose, are bringing nutrients and 'protein' into the muscle cells to help repair and build muscle.

So CARBS are very essential for building muscle. The more Carbs you can take in and drive into muscle cells the more you'll utilize the protein you take in and build muscle. Carbs become your main macro nutrient when on cycle.

Now not only are Carbs your main macro source to help build muscle while on cycle. they are also your fuel source to drive and power the whole machine to begin with.. your on cycle, your training like a mad man with a ton of intensity and volume , fuel that monster! CARBS are your fuel.

how is "carbs as your fuel source'' related to your protein intake.. well remember what I said about how protein requires a ton of energy to process. Well you know how much of an energy waste it is and how inefficient and expensive it is to use protein for energy? hell protein takes a ton of energy to process to begin, we go from that to the process known as Gluconeogenisis, in which the liver takes protein and breaks it down and converts it into glucose to be used as energy... thats an expensive process!! If your carbs are too low, then yes your body will use protein as fuel by converting it into glucose. what a damn WASTE !! the solution is to just keep pounding the Carbs. that way you'll always have the glucose present for fuel so your body doesn't have to do this and waste both protein and energy.

again, we are wanting to grow and build muscle and save all our energy for this process and be in a calorie surplus . NOT wasting energy is very important.

what about Fat, can't I use that for energy too? well keep this in mind, your body only utilizes a very small amount of dietary fat for energy, the majority of fat is stored as body fat. in fact if you were starving to death and on the verge of passing out and you finally have a meal of only fat your body is going to take that meal and 'store it' as body fat FIRST and then use it as fuel , lol.

so why would we want to use fat for energy . we wouldn't in this situation . WE NEED TO JUST POUND THE CARBOHYDRATES.

a lot of the points I make above can be seen in anecdotal evidence. When Ronnie Coleman and Jay Cutler were on cycle they would consume over 1000 grams of CARBS (yes they were taking insulin too).

So its Carbs that are the main macro for an enhanced bodybuilder, contrary to popular belief that bodybuilders mainly eat protein.

[Radman69]

alot of good points here... i almost completely agree with u... but... some individuals are just not as good as using carbs as energy as fats... not everyone can use carbs efficiently...also, i would like to add that excess protein intake can put unnecessary strain on the kidneys which is something u should be cautious of when on cycle(or always for that matter). Dont forget that a good electrolyte balance is vital in 'shuttling' said nutrients into muscles as apposed to sitting subcutaneous as water... take home message is... everyone is an individual and experimtation is necessary to accel in our chosen sport! Great read buddy! Great debate! I love dietary discussions!

[GearHeaded]

some individuals are just not as good as using carbs as energy as fats... not everyone can use carbs efficiently...

absolutely agree with you. when I do diets for people I usually have the protein at a fixed amount, and its the carbs and the fats that we manipulate and adjust as needed, dependent on how their body is responding and using these macros.

if someone is not utilizing carbs very efficiently sometimes its as simple as adjusting the timing of when carbs are consumed, or adding in a drug like Metformin and GDAs. I'll try that before pulling carbs out or lowering them.
Its also going to depend on other factors and variables like what AAS compounds they are currently taking, did they just come off a massing or cutting phase, are they using HGH or GHRH/Ps or other HGH secretagogues. insulin sensitivity and efficiency at using carbs can be manipulated and effected in lots of ways. BUT thats what makes doing diets fun and challenging

[Radman69]

absolutely agree with you. when I do diets for people I usually have the protein at a fixed amount, and its the carbs and the fats that we manipulate and adjust as needed, dependent on how their body is responding and using these macros.

if someone is not utilizing carbs very efficiently sometimes its as simple as adjusting the timing of when carbs are consumed, or adding in a drug like Metformin and GDAs. I'll try that before pulling carbs out or lowering them.
Its also going to depend on other factors and variables like what AAS compounds they are currently taking, did they just come off a massing or cutting phase, are they using HGH or GHRH/Ps or other HGH secretagogues. insulin sensitivity and efficiency at using carbs can be manipulated and effected in lots of ways. BUT thats what makes doing diets fun and challenging

And i DO completely agree with that! Well said brother!

[Primemuscle]

A lot of valid points and good information. Good food for thought. Kudos for the thread and comments brothers


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[MasterBlaster805]

Yeah.. Think I'll stick with Jay Cutler, Ronnie Coleman and Phil Heath's philosophy.. 75-100 grams of protein 5-7 times per day along with 50-70 grams of carbs.. or up to 2 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight for maximum size and strength. It took this former 6' 185 pound surfer/skate rat all the way up to 267 lbs at 10% body fat with plenty of trophies to show for it.

[GearHeaded]

Yeah.. Think I'll stick with Ronnie Coleman philosophy.. 75-100 grams of protein 5-7 times per day .

considering Ronnie was 320+ pounds in the off season.. thats not a whole lot of protein actually (1.5g or less per pound of body weight, pretty average). whats amazing was when he was dieting for a show he would actually diet on 1000 grams of carbs. same with Jay.

however, when in the off season and growing and taking time down regulating from all the steroid use, I bet protein was much higher

[Fancycat69]

Yeah I think you don’t need to have tons of protein while gaining. But if you’re trying to cut you need to up your protein for sure

[GearHeaded]

Yeah I think you don’t need to have tons of protein while gaining. But if you’re trying to cut you need to up your protein for sure

for natty's , they really need to up the protein intake while cutting to help preserve muscle. BUT theres another huge benefit to upping protein in a cut wither natty or enhanced.

protein is the only food we intake that is highly thermogenic, meaning it requires a bunch of energy (i.e., calories) to process. for every 100 calories of protein you take in, 30 calories are burned to metabolize that.

so upping your protein, over fats and carbs, helps put you in a calorie deficit. heres a crazy example--
lets say your maintenance calories were 2000 per day. now lets say you decided to have all those calories in just protein. so you eat 2000 calories of protein, guess what, just by eating that protein and its thermogenic effect your already in a 600 calorie deficit (heck thats like spending several hours a day doing cardio, yet your doing nothing but eating).
again because 30% of protein is 'burned up' and required as energy to metabolize it

[Hatebreed]

Some good points, gear headed. Ive also notice my body fucking craves carbs while on cycle. Just more ancidotal evidence to add to the pile.