Thread: * * * * GH "RAMP" PROTOCOL & T3/T4 DISCUSSION * * * *

Great info.. always learning from you brother. Personalized question about my application.

Im at 4 iu. Handling the sides ok. I see in your application example at 4 iu. for fat reduction. You have 3 iu am fasted. and 1 iu Pm. So, I have a few questions that I waas thinking about avter reading your post.


1). IS it important to not use more than 3 iu at a time(is it an absorption thing?). Does it work better split for fat loss(min muscle building)?

2). How long after application fasted is it ok to do cardio or hit the weight room? I try to do weights fasted to burn more fat as well.

3). Subq injection around navel area is where you gave example for your inj . Is that the best place for absorption or is it ok in any subq fat in different locations?

4). Does high carb consumption negate the gh in anyway? Is it better with a keto diet, carb cycling or IF(with 45/35/20 macros)?


I think that is about all I can think of. I appreciate the insight in your response. Thx Brother.


JMcF

Originally Posted by Riggs

GH starter "ramp" protocol &
T3/T4 supplementation discussion

I was asked to throw this together and I had to do so while sitting on a leg press. Thankfully I have the gym to myself. If there's spellng and grammar problems I'll edit it later. Hopefully it's not horrible cause I'm kinda rushed...here we go.

4iu's - 5iu's
Start with 1iu for 3 weeks, ramp to 2iu for 3 weeks, 3iu for 3 weeks, 4iu for 3 weeks. 4-5 iu and less for therapeutic benefits and improved AAS benefits. If at any point CTS or swelling is an issue back off 1iu and do a 6 week ramp until sides subside. If sides persist go back to dosage that yielded no sides and ramp at 9 week intervals. The other side is feeling tired, IMO that's more an issue of timing your dose, and I'll address that later in detail.

Split am/pm.
Dose upon waking in a fasted state is best for fat burning but if feeling tired is an issue dose light in the morning and more in the evening for example 1iu a.m./3iu p.m. If you don't get too tired after dosing and fat burning is your focus then pining more iu's in a fasted state upon waking will be what you want to aim for and in this case 3iu a.m/1iu p.m will do. If I'm not waking @ 3:30 a.m. for the purpose of fasted cardio then I set my alarm for 3a.m., have my pin loaded in my mini fridge by my bed, simply roll over, open the mini fridge, pin then I'm going right back to sleep. It literally takes me seconds and I'll actually wake just before my alarm goes off cause I'm heavily anticipating the dose. This way I wake @ 6:30 and my body is already primed and in a fat burning state. Several hours have passed since pining and I can eat a good clean breakfast which I love. In an effort to avoid building insulin desensitization you'll need to not eat for at least an hour after you dose and I prefer longer. So for your p.m. dose I do my p.m. training, immediately carb up after and I wait an hour and a half to pin my evening dose.

CTS - numbness/tingling in the hands
The ramp protocol is a slow one but I assure you if you get hit with intense CTS (numbness & tingling in your hands) you'll wish you had taken the ramp route. I've got friends who we're accustomed to the high oil volume of AAS and, in looking at a mere 4iu's, decided to jump in and go straight to 2iu morning/2iu night. Well one of em is still experiencing CTS to this day. So IME if you dive in too quickly the sides can be very persistent whereas with the ramp protocol I've never had anyone come back to me complaining about sides that persisted past the point of the increased 9 week ramp. It's obvious to me that the point in starting with GH is allowing the body time to adapt and staying ahead of the sides. GH is not like AAS guys. It's very potent and has a profound affect on our body. The first time you see 4iu's your gonna do what we all do and say "seriously that's it?" To this day it's hard for me to grasp the potency of GH.

Bac water -
I use a 23g pin and draw 1cc of Bac water. I add 1cc of air to the pin so I have a total of 2cc in the pin...1cc of Bac water and 1cc of air to equal out the pressure in the GH vial. Now take the vial of powder GH and turn it at an angle so you can poke the pin through the rubber top at an angle so the needle is against the glass. DO NOT ALLOW THE BAC WATER TO SPRAY DIRECTLY ON THE POWDER ANGLE THE NEEDLE ON THE GLASS. Now with 1cc Bac water added to now have 10iu of reconstituted GH and each line on a 1cc/ml pin is 1iu. Now the powder might not completely dissolve so DO NOT SHAKE THE VIAL IT WILL DESTROY THE GH. Simply place the vial between your hands and slowly roll your hands back and forth. It might take a few minutes but will eventually completely dissolve. Make sure ALL the powder is dissolved and reconstituted.

Administering you're GH subq
You want to follow the same cleaning process used in pining AAS. I simply pinch some fat one inch away from my belly button and it's that simple. Some will say you must pin at a slight angle but I just go straight in and I'm g2g. It's very common to get a small lump right where you pin and this will subside momentarily. IMO there's no need to aspirate when pining subq. Again some will swear you must but I've never had an issue or had anyone I've coached have an issue either.

T3/T4 supplementation

<6iu's.
Under 6 iu's I don't supplement with T4. Based on my bloods I've always been within a range I'm ok with and was happy with my recomp. We all are different tho so I'll express my position in more detail. Just know if you choose to supplement with T3/T4 bloods are a must otherwise you're at risk of losing valuable lean muscle mass.

T4 naturally converts to T3 in the case of a deficit. Exogenous GH will cause T4 to T3 conversion to accelerate. If you supplement with T3 it can easily get too high causing you to cannibalize valuable lean muscle and flatten you out. Therefore IMO supplementing T4 is more synergistic with exogenous GH. You'll see guys on GH have low T4 levels and elevated T3 so cover the lower marker and your g2g. Now if your doing a show and need to make weight then I can see the logic behind keeping T3 higher but for the average hobbyist IMO its counterproductive and wastes valuable lean muscle mass. I'm not a competitor nor am I referring to the needs of a competitor. I'm targeting the average hobbyist with this protocol because it's what I know.

>6iu's
That's not my comfort zone so I'll stay away from this and let someone else chime in. But I would assume that T4 supplementation is encouraged. The key is doing your bloodwork especially if you surpass the 6iu marker. But again I'm a below 6iu guy so take my comments on this part lightly.

I learned all this through trial/error and friends/family who have been at it for 20yrs but as always I strongly encourage you to use my comments as a reference point and do your own research. Keep grinding my brother's!!

1). IS it important to not use more than 3 iu at a time(is it an absorption thing?). Does it work better split for fat loss(min muscle building)?

We have better insulin sensitivity and utilization of glucose in the evening so let you're GH handle the anabolism in the morning and then throughout the night. The 3iu morning and 1iu evening I've mentioned is just an example of how to split 4iu when fat loss is a focus. So you can do a 10iu pin or as much as you want and it's g2g.

2). How long after application fasted is it ok to do cardio or hit the weight room? I try to do weights fasted to burn more fat as well.

I wake, pin immediately @ 3:45 and I'm training by 4:30.

3). Subq injection around navel area is where you gave example for your inj . Is that the best place for absorption or is it ok in any subq fat in different locations?

Any subq is g2g.

4). Does high carb consumption negate the gh in anyway? Is it better with a keto diet, carb cycling or IF(with 45/35/20 macros)?

GH has the strongest fat-burning effect when the level of sugar and insulin is low so you simply want to avoid sugar/carbs an hour b4 or after you pin. So, the best time to inject HGH is upon waking in a fasted state. If you are on cutting, it is the best time to run because for the level of free fatty acids in the blood will be very high for the next three hours, and you'll be primed for fat burning. Even if you are on bulking, you should take the first injection in the morning. The second one should be taken 6-8 hours later, when the levels of IGF-1 and HGH decrease, before going to bed instead or some like to pin the 2nd dose post w/o in the evening. As long as you're not eating an hour before or after you're g2g.

Thank you so much BigRigg. I was needing this brother!

Originally Posted by Riggs

GH starter "ramp" protocol &
T3/T4 supplementation discussion

I was asked to throw this together and I had to do so while sitting on a leg press. Thankfully I have the gym to myself. If there's spellng and grammar problems I'll edit it later. Hopefully it's not horrible cause I'm kinda rushed...here we go.

4iu's - 5iu's
Start with 1iu for 3 weeks, ramp to 2iu for 3 weeks, 3iu for 3 weeks, 4iu for 3 weeks. 4-5 iu and less for therapeutic benefits and improved AAS benefits. If at any point CTS or swelling is an issue back off 1iu and do a 6 week ramp until sides subside. If sides persist go back to dosage that yielded no sides and ramp at 9 week intervals. The other side is feeling tired, IMO that's more an issue of timing your dose, and I'll address that later in detail.

Split am/pm.
Dose upon waking in a fasted state is best for fat burning but if feeling tired is an issue dose light in the morning and more in the evening for example 1iu a.m./3iu p.m. If you don't get too tired after dosing and fat burning is your focus then pining more iu's in a fasted state upon waking will be what you want to aim for and in this case 3iu a.m/1iu p.m will do. If I'm not waking @ 3:30 a.m. for the purpose of fasted cardio then I set my alarm for 3a.m., have my pin loaded in my mini fridge by my bed, simply roll over, open the mini fridge, pin then I'm going right back to sleep. It literally takes me seconds and I'll actually wake just before my alarm goes off cause I'm heavily anticipating the dose. This way I wake @ 6:30 and my body is already primed and in a fat burning state. Several hours have passed since pining and I can eat a good clean breakfast which I love. In an effort to avoid building insulin desensitization you'll need to not eat for at least an hour after you dose and I prefer longer. So for your p.m. dose I do my p.m. training, immediately carb up after and I wait an hour and a half to pin my evening dose.

CTS - numbness/tingling in the hands
The ramp protocol is a slow one but I assure you if you get hit with intense CTS (numbness & tingling in your hands) you'll wish you had taken the ramp route. I've got friends who we're accustomed to the high oil volume of AAS and, in looking at a mere 4iu's, decided to jump in and go straight to 2iu morning/2iu night. Well one of em is still experiencing CTS to this day. So IME if you dive in too quickly the sides can be very persistent whereas with the ramp protocol I've never had anyone come back to me complaining about sides that persisted past the point of the increased 9 week ramp. It's obvious to me that the point in starting with GH is allowing the body time to adapt and staying ahead of the sides. GH is not like AAS guys. It's very potent and has a profound affect on our body. The first time you see 4iu's your gonna do what we all do and say "seriously that's it?" To this day it's hard for me to grasp the potency of GH.

Bac water -
I use a 23g pin and draw 1cc of Bac water. I add 1cc of air to the pin so I have a total of 2cc in the pin...1cc of Bac water and 1cc of air to equal out the pressure in the GH vial. Now take the vial of powder GH and turn it at an angle so you can poke the pin through the rubber top at an angle so the needle is against the glass. DO NOT ALLOW THE BAC WATER TO SPRAY DIRECTLY ON THE POWDER ANGLE THE NEEDLE ON THE GLASS. Now with 1cc Bac water added to now have 10iu of reconstituted GH and each line on a 1cc/ml pin is 1iu. Now the powder might not completely dissolve so DO NOT SHAKE THE VIAL IT WILL DESTROY THE GH. Simply place the vial between your hands and slowly roll your hands back and forth. It might take a few minutes but will eventually completely dissolve. Make sure ALL the powder is dissolved and reconstituted.

Administering you're GH subq
You want to follow the same cleaning process used in pining AAS. I simply pinch some fat one inch away from my belly button and it's that simple. Some will say you must pin at a slight angle but I just go straight in and I'm g2g. It's very common to get a small lump right where you pin and this will subside momentarily. IMO there's no need to aspirate when pining subq. Again some will swear you must but I've never had an issue or had anyone I've coached have an issue either.

T3/T4 supplementation

<6iu's.
Under 6 iu's I don't supplement with T4. Based on my bloods I've always been within a range I'm ok with and was happy with my recomp. We all are different tho so I'll express my position in more detail. Just know if you choose to supplement with T3/T4 bloods are a must otherwise you're at risk of losing valuable lean muscle mass.

T4 naturally converts to T3 in the case of a deficit. Exogenous GH will cause T4 to T3 conversion to accelerate. If you supplement with T3 it can easily get too high causing you to cannibalize valuable lean muscle and flatten you out. Therefore IMO supplementing T4 is more synergistic with exogenous GH. You'll see guys on GH have low T4 levels and elevated T3 so cover the lower marker and your g2g. Now if your doing a show and need to make weight then I can see the logic behind keeping T3 higher but for the average hobbyist IMO its counterproductive and wastes valuable lean muscle mass. I'm not a competitor nor am I referring to the needs of a competitor. I'm targeting the average hobbyist with this protocol because it's what I know.

>6iu's
That's not my comfort zone so I'll stay away from this and let someone else chime in. But I would assume that T4 supplementation is encouraged. The key is doing your bloodwork especially if you surpass the 6iu marker. But again I'm a below 6iu guy so take my comments on this part lightly.

I learned all this through trial/error and friends/family who have been at it for 20yrs but as always I strongly encourage you to use my comments as a reference point and do your own research. Keep grinding my brother's!!

Sent from my Z851M using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by Riggs

GH starter "ramp" protocol &
T3/T4 supplementation discussion

I was asked to throw this together and I had to do so while sitting on a leg press. Thankfully I have the gym to myself. If there's spellng and grammar problems I'll edit it later. Hopefully it's not horrible cause I'm kinda rushed...here we go.

4iu's - 5iu's
Start with 1iu for 3 weeks, ramp to 2iu for 3 weeks, 3iu for 3 weeks, 4iu for 3 weeks. 4-5 iu and less for therapeutic benefits and improved AAS benefits. If at any point CTS or swelling is an issue back off 1iu and do a 6 week ramp until sides subside. If sides persist go back to dosage that yielded no sides and ramp at 9 week intervals. The other side is feeling tired, IMO that's more an issue of timing your dose, and I'll address that later in detail.

Split am/pm.
Dose upon waking in a fasted state is best for fat burning but if feeling tired is an issue dose light in the morning and more in the evening for example 1iu a.m./3iu p.m. If you don't get too tired after dosing and fat burning is your focus then pining more iu's in a fasted state upon waking will be what you want to aim for and in this case 3iu a.m/1iu p.m will do. If I'm not waking @ 3:30 a.m. for the purpose of fasted cardio then I set my alarm for 3a.m., have my pin loaded in my mini fridge by my bed, simply roll over, open the mini fridge, pin then I'm going right back to sleep. It literally takes me seconds and I'll actually wake just before my alarm goes off cause I'm heavily anticipating the dose. This way I wake @ 6:30 and my body is already primed and in a fat burning state. Several hours have passed since pining and I can eat a good clean breakfast which I love. In an effort to avoid building insulin desensitization you'll need to not eat for at least an hour after you dose and I prefer longer. So for your p.m. dose I do my p.m. training, immediately carb up after and I wait an hour and a half to pin my evening dose.

CTS - numbness/tingling in the hands
The ramp protocol is a slow one but I assure you if you get hit with intense CTS (numbness & tingling in your hands) you'll wish you had taken the ramp route. I've got friends who we're accustomed to the high oil volume of AAS and, in looking at a mere 4iu's, decided to jump in and go straight to 2iu morning/2iu night. Well one of em is still experiencing CTS to this day. So IME if you dive in too quickly the sides can be very persistent whereas with the ramp protocol I've never had anyone come back to me complaining about sides that persisted past the point of the increased 9 week ramp. It's obvious to me that the point in starting with GH is allowing the body time to adapt and staying ahead of the sides. GH is not like AAS guys. It's very potent and has a profound affect on our body. The first time you see 4iu's your gonna do what we all do and say "seriously that's it?" To this day it's hard for me to grasp the potency of GH.

Bac water -
I use a 23g pin and draw 1cc of Bac water. I add 1cc of air to the pin so I have a total of 2cc in the pin...1cc of Bac water and 1cc of air to equal out the pressure in the GH vial. Now take the vial of powder GH and turn it at an angle so you can poke the pin through the rubber top at an angle so the needle is against the glass. DO NOT ALLOW THE BAC WATER TO SPRAY DIRECTLY ON THE POWDER ANGLE THE NEEDLE ON THE GLASS. Now with 1cc Bac water added to now have 10iu of reconstituted GH and each line on a 1cc/ml pin is 1iu. Now the powder might not completely dissolve so DO NOT SHAKE THE VIAL IT WILL DESTROY THE GH. Simply place the vial between your hands and slowly roll your hands back and forth. It might take a few minutes but will eventually completely dissolve. Make sure ALL the powder is dissolved and reconstituted.

Administering you're GH subq
You want to follow the same cleaning process used in pining AAS. I simply pinch some fat one inch away from my belly button and it's that simple. Some will say you must pin at a slight angle but I just go straight in and I'm g2g. It's very common to get a small lump right where you pin and this will subside momentarily. IMO there's no need to aspirate when pining subq. Again some will swear you must but I've never had an issue or had anyone I've coached have an issue either.

T3/T4 supplementation

<6iu's.
Under 6 iu's I don't supplement with T4. Based on my bloods I've always been within a range I'm ok with and was happy with my recomp. We all are different tho so I'll express my position in more detail. Just know if you choose to supplement with T3/T4 bloods are a must otherwise you're at risk of losing valuable lean muscle mass.

T4 naturally converts to T3 in the case of a deficit. Exogenous GH will cause T4 to T3 conversion to accelerate. If you supplement with T3 it can easily get too high causing you to cannibalize valuable lean muscle and flatten you out. Therefore IMO supplementing T4 is more synergistic with exogenous GH. You'll see guys on GH have low T4 levels and elevated T3 so cover the lower marker and your g2g. Now if your doing a show and need to make weight then I can see the logic behind keeping T3 higher but for the average hobbyist IMO its counterproductive and wastes valuable lean muscle mass. I'm not a competitor nor am I referring to the needs of a competitor. I'm targeting the average hobbyist with this protocol because it's what I know.

>6iu's
That's not my comfort zone so I'll stay away from this and let someone else chime in. But I would assume that T4 supplementation is encouraged. The key is doing your bloodwork especially if you surpass the 6iu marker. But again I'm a below 6iu guy so take my comments on this part lightly.

I learned all this through trial/error and friends/family who have been at it for 20yrs but as always I strongly encourage you to use my comments as a reference point and do your own research. Keep grinding my brother's!!

Thank you so much BigRigg. I was needing this brother!

Sent from my Z851M using Tapatalk