Thread: Slin/Carb question

i know that the general rule of thumb is 10g carbs per 1iu insulin. But I have been trying to find some clarification around that statement. Is it 10g carbs across the duration of the slin activity window? From the proposed protocols I have reviewed that would not be the case. Is it then 10g carbs per hour of the insulin activity window? Or 10g of carbs for each "peak" that the specific type of insulin is known to have? Or something else?

I also realize that 10g is just a guideline, not a hard and fast rule, and that some might need more than that while others may end up needing less.

TIA!

You'd inject the slin with just before/during the activity. Meaning if you're about to sit down and eat 100g of carbs you'd inject 10iu as you're sitting down to eat. That is how it works in conjunction with diet and insulin use/production. If you're talking about it being used in conjunction with HGH I'm not completely sure on that.

Are you using humalog? Or lantus?

Originally Posted by German89

Are you using humalog? Or lantus?

Neither, I am using (will be using) in between those two, the -R (regular) insulin. Thanks.

Originally Posted by BOP_79R

You'd inject the slin with just before/during the activity. Meaning if you're about to sit down and eat 100g of carbs you'd inject 10iu as you're sitting down to eat. That is how it works in conjunction with diet and insulin use/production. If you're talking about it being used in conjunction with HGH I'm not completely sure on that.

I will be using it in conjunction with HGH and specifically plan to use it PWO. Using the -R variant the nutrient shuttling effects will carry through the workout and well into the post meal.

One other way to phrase my question is does the insulin get used/counter-acted by carbs? IE: Do they "cancel" each other out? Or will the body continue to shuttle glucose out of the blood so long as the insulin is active, regardless of how much glucose it has already removed from the bloodstream?

I believe the current PWO protocols utilize a more continuous feed of glucose and nutrients as working out will consume what we took in at the start of the workout, thereby needing to be replaced up until the insulin activity window ends.

If you have insulin in your system your body will use it, regardless if its natural or injected. Meaning if you inject and there's nothing to react with, it will start reacting with glucose and your blood sugar will drop, inject too much and you certainly can put yourself into a coma if you fuck it up and don't recognize the signs.

Originally Posted by BOP_79R

If you have insulin in your system your body will use it, regardless if its natural or injected. Meaning if you inject and there's nothing to react with, it will start reacting with glucose and your blood sugar will drop, inject too much and you certainly can put yourself into a coma if you fuck it up and don't recognize the signs.

I get that, but I was more asking about the reaction itself.

Let me ask it another way: Does the reaction "consume" the insulin? Or does the reaction continue until the insulin is no longer active, with the active window being dictated by the insulin type elimination half life and not by the amount of carbs it reacted with.

The insulin is "consumed." The cells in the body need glucose for energy, you get that from your diet. When you eat, the glucose is absorbed into the blood but the cells can't absorb the glucose on their own. When your blood sugar rises the body releases insulin, the insulin attaches to receptors on the cells and allows the cell to open up and accept glucose. So insulin use and glucose intake to the cells is proportionate and blood sugar will continue to drop (increased energy to the cells) until all the insulin is "consumed"

Originally Posted by BOP_79R

The insulin is "consumed." The cells in the body need glucose for energy, you get that from your diet. When you eat, the glucose is absorbed into the blood but the cells can't absorb the glucose on their own. When your blood sugar rises the body releases insulin, the insulin attaches to receptors on the cells and allows the cell to open up and accept glucose. So insulin use and glucose intake to the cells is proportionate and blood sugar will continue to drop (increased energy to the cells) until all the insulin is "consumed"

Does that apply to exogenous insulin? or only endogenous insulin?

I ask because that does not seem to track for exogenous slin use, otherwise the posts about going hypo 2 hours post injection, due to not eating "another carb rich meal" seems to imply that the exogenous insulin is not consumed, but just present and active. Otherwise wouldn't the large carb heavy shake that most take immediately following an insulin shot have all but completely "consumed" the insulin from the injection?

Thanks!

Originally Posted by Sparkss

Does that apply to exogenous insulin? or only endogenous insulin?

I ask because that does not seem to track for exogenous slin use, otherwise the posts about going hypo 2 hours post injection, due to not eating "another carb rich meal" seems to imply that the exogenous insulin is not consumed, but just present and active. Otherwise wouldn't the large carb heavy shake that most take immediately following an insulin shot have all but completely "consumed" the insulin from the injection?

Thanks!

Originally Posted by Sparkss

Does that apply to exogenous insulin? or only endogenous insulin?

I ask because that does not seem to track for exogenous slin use, otherwise the posts about going hypo 2 hours post injection, due to not eating "another carb rich meal" seems to imply that the exogenous insulin is not consumed, but just present and active. Otherwise wouldn't the large carb heavy shake that most take immediately following an insulin shot have all but completely "consumed" the insulin from the injection?

Thanks!

Short version, yes the body treats exo and endo insulin the same, just like it treats endo and exo testosterone the same. If you're going hypo 2 hours post injection and didn't eat, the exo-insulin did it's job and was "consumed". And yes if you have a carb heavy shake post shot, the body will use that available insulin to start shoving glucose everywhere. Being consumed immediately vs 2 hours isn't a killer in a functioning person, your body will attempt to correct by not producing slin naturally. Now in a diabetic who can't regulate insulin that 2 hours can kill them, this is why you see most diabetics always have their slin and some kind of sugary soda or juice on them all the time to keep the blood sugar in a range.

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Perhaps I'm not reading your statement correctly. Endo and exo simply mean the insulin was produced inside the body or injected from outside the body, you knew that. You then say 'posts about going hypo 2 hours post injetion due to not eating.... seems to imply that exogenous is not consumed..." If you go hypoglycemic that means you have low blood sugar, If your blood sugar is low that means insulin was used to get that sugar into the cells. You can't have it both ways, if you're hypo the insulin was used to make you hypo and the insulin is now gone; you can't eat normally and get hypo while retaining active insulin. Worded another way, if you're hypo the insulin was consumed, a carb heavy shake following an insulin shot will react with the insulin you just took. Unless I'm reading wrong those two statements are the same, you're just questioning the time frame of immediately vs 2 hours?


In general the way to become hypo is too much insulin or not eating, the way to become hyper is eat too much sugars or not enough insulin. So yes, in a normal functioning person, if you have a carb heavy shake your body will produce insulin to put the carbs(glucose) into the cells, the rest of the glucose will go to the liver as glycogen, or to adipose tissue (fat).

For the most part HGH and insulin are ying/yang, when your insulin is high the body shuts down GH production and when your GH production is high the pancreas tends to stop pumping insulin. This is why slin and hgh are both injected, too much of one shuts down the natural production of the other, you want both for muscle growth and keeping blood sugar in check. Also, GH is released naturally when sleeping, another reason sleep is an important part of training.