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  • Results 1 to 6 of 6

    Thread: Study hidden by CDC for 20 years: >2 million defensive gun uses per year

    1. #1
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      Study hidden by CDC for 20 years: >2 million defensive gun uses per year

      This is something people in the gun community have known intuitively since forever. That there are literally thousands of justifiable defensive uses of firearms across the fruited plain EVERY DAY, but most go unreported because gun owners fear getting jammed up by the legal system for exercising their natural right to self defense.

      CDC, in Surveys It Never Bothered Making Public, Provides More Evidence that Plenty of Americans Innocently Defend Themselves with Guns

      CDC surveys in the 1990s, never publicly reported, indicate nearly 2.5 million defensive uses of guns a year. That matches the results of Gary Kleck's controversial surveys, and it indicates more defensive than offensive uses of guns.


      ...Florida State University criminologist Gary Kleck conducted the most thorough previously known survey data on the question in the 1990s. His study, which has been harshly disputed in pro-gun-control quarters, indicated that there were more than 2.2 million such defensive uses of guns (DGUs) in America a year.

      Now Kleck has unearthed some lost CDC survey data on the question. The CDC essentially confirmed Kleck's results. But Kleck didn't know about that until now, because the CDC never reported what it found...

      ...Kleck was impressed with how well the survey worded its question: "During the last 12 months, have you confronted another person with a firearm, even if you did not fire it, to protect yourself, your property, or someone else?" Respondents were told to leave out incidents from occupations, like policing, where using firearms is part of the job....


      The online article is here:

      reason.com/blog/2018/04/20/cdc-provides-more-evidence-that-plenty-o

      Kleck was mocked when he released his study for its "inflated" numbers, when according to the CDC, he had underestimated the numbers of actual defensive gun uses by more than 500 a day. Considering the CDC is a public service, and considering how intent certain elements of the government are so hell-bent of rendering America's citizens defenseless, it's blatantly obvious that this amounts to a lie by omission. Gee, the government is lying. Whooda thunkit?

      And of course this puts the lie to one of the biggest myths of the anti-gunners: that a gun is more likely to kill its owner than to be used to protect him.
      That is why I won't do two shows a night anymore, I won't.

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      Study hidden by CDC for 20 years: >2 million defensive gun uses per year Study hidden by CDC for 20 years: >2 million defensive gun uses per year
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    4. #2
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      Dude, they don’t want an armed population. The end goal is total dependence on the government, when it’s gone here in America there is no place left and they know it.

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      Government is not relevant to anything anymore. All they are is a front for big business.
      They have you and me by the balls.
      They don't give a fuck about armed or unarmed
      Money talks. The rest is bullshit
      1% of the population owns 2/3 of the shares in companies ....

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      I'm pro gun, but why is the CDC even involved in this? Seems kind of odd.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Xtreme4Life View Post
      I'm pro gun, but why is the CDC even involved in this? Seems kind of odd.
      They aren't. They wanted to look at it from a health perspective. Agree it is odd but there is no organization in a better position that can gather statistics and do research on guns. The CDC is not so biased like some say. Better to get the facts and then if you believe you should have the right to guns or you think the freedom is worth whatever effects then fine you argue that.

      Around 20 plus years ago the CDC proposed to do more on the topic. Congress never banned it but they removed or threatened to remove (can't remember its long time since I looked at it) the exact $ the CDC allocated to gun research. The CDC got the message and did not proceed.

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    12. #6
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      Quote Originally Posted by Xtreme4Life View Post
      I'm pro gun, but why is the CDC even involved in this? Seems kind of odd.
      Because the rate of defensive gun use plays a role in how many patients are cycled through emergency rooms, and who else but CDC is going to count how many gunshot wounds are treated in emergency rooms?

      Speaking of which, there was a study published in the American Journal of Emergency Medicine in 1990 that studied the largest number of shooting cases I've ever come across. I *think* the exact number was 134,000 GSWs treated in ERs across America. Which, based on the typical annual shooting rate back then, I'm thinking must have been the total from a 10-year span.

      Anyway, across the whole of the study, the survival rate was 80%. So the odds of surviving being shot were four out of five. And most of the people who died were DOA at the ER. Again going from memory, I *think* the odds of surviving if you were alive when they brought you into the ER were 93%. If you lived to get to the ER, odds were nearly 50/50 (47%, IIRC) that you'd be treated and released. Odds of dying from being shot in the head were roughly twice as high as a non-head wound but even head shots had a survival rate of better than 50%.

      From which one can surmise that either, #1, the guns we select to shoot each other with ain't worth a damn, #2, people in general don't shoot worth a damn, or #3, both 1 and 2 are true.

      In any case, it proves out the old adage that the chief role of a handgun in home defense should be to fight your way to wherever you've stashed your long gun. Because pistols ain't for shit.


      I would like to see that study updated because we've had 17 continuous years of war since then, and one thing that always benefits tremendously from war is emergency medicine. I've seen studies in the last few years that fatality rates from traumatic injuries of all sort (GSWs, auto accidents, etc) have halved (dropped by 50%) since the GWOT began. Which means the GSW survival rate now would be closer to 90%. Unless we've started buying better guns, or learned to shoot better, and I am highly dubious that either of those two has taken place.

      Which brings me to my final point. Murder rates. You read a lot of late about the decline in murder rates, too.

      I'm a gun guy but I'm also a realist, so trying to associate these claims of a decline in murder rates with some supposed decline in gun crime just DOES NOT pass the smell test.

      Why? Q. What do all murders have in common? A. Somebody gets killed.

      Killed means they didn't survive. And if all these numbers are accurate, if ERs actually have decreased the GSW mortality rate by half since 2001, that means there could be 50% more shootings today than there were in 2001 and the murder rate still would show a 25% decline. Because emergency medicine has improved more than the shooting has worsened.

      So at best it's it's a misleading statistic, and destined to be just that unless it's adjusted for the historic increase in the GSW survival rates (if any). And the gun community does not need to stretch the facts to support its point. Because then we're just as bad as the neo-Bolsheviks (i.e., the demoncrats and other hoplophobes).

      And stop kidding yourself that a Glock is all you need and get that AR or the Mossberg pump you keep putting off. Because handguns suck at killing people. Dr Andreas Grabinsky on Gunshot Wounds
      That is why I won't do two shows a night anymore, I won't.

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    15. Study hidden by CDC for 20 years: >2 million defensive gun uses per year

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    Study hidden by CDC for 20 years: >2 million defensive gun uses per year Study hidden by CDC for 20 years: >2 million defensive gun uses per year