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Originally Posted by
lokthai
Well im not gonna counter all that. Lol But i gotta say this from experience.
I was forced off roids for 3 years. That plus not being on any juice, plus being on a very low calorie diet for the first 2 of those years as well as very low protein (as was imposed on me) then being able to naturally put on muscle at an older age made me realize and re-examine a lot.
Lots of sugar spiking insulin was a huge factor coupled with the volumous workouts.
I could show you a pic from a level 2 weight pile describing just what i said and you would swear I'm on roids.
But its like this: everybody wants an edge, no matter how small . If nothing else psychologically you feel satiated: you've done all you can do.
If i had the shit tons of money i used to, I'd toss paper around on a bunch of shit just for the helluvit with my friend Justin Case.
Since i don't and know what i know, seeing what I've seen and being where I've been i don't.
I spend money on tudca, fish oil, and lately emergen C mixed with the juice from 4 lemons: mix up a pack to a pint and drink 4 through the night. I get up for 2 pisses a night. I feel refreshed and hydrated and it helps illuminate sodium retention making me awake to a non puffy look.
Am i wasting money. Probably. But I've caught emergency on sale and wasted a bunch all at once. Its gotta tasty little fizz too. It makes me happy.
If your eaa's make you happy too, well then there you go! I guess we've both done our part by being a couple guys missing from the angry pool while doing our part to counter trenattude.
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LOL, trenattude. I hear you, Lokthai. And I agree with you to many degrees. There is nothing more impactful on anabolism than insulin. That point cannot even be argued. Obviously by finding ways to manipulate your insulin you made the most out of the reduced calories and sub-par macros you were given. Too that, HUGE kudos, my friend. You made the most out of the situation.
Was it the best situation? No. Was it an optimal environment for growth? No. But you were forced to make it work.
I would not necessarily say that this proves a lack of need for certain supplements (add-ons not replacements) in our diets. Iagree that 98% of EVERYTHING at supplement stores is a waste of time and money that often costs more than AAS and provide little to no benefit. However, there are a few key components that do have merit. Quality vitamins, fish oils, TUDCA, as example. I personally feel that EAA's should be added to this list. They do help as an additional component, but they are certainly not a replacement for a clean diet.
Will they provide the anabolism of insulin? No way in hell. Will they provide the anabolism of a quality cycle? No, they certainly will not. Will EAA's throttle the potential of a quality cycle and insulin? Absolutely. They provide the fuel. Insulin shuttles nutrients (fuel). EAA's are that fuel. They are not a replacement but rather create a synergy. Insulin, has you have proven, makes the most out of even low-quality and small amounts of calories. Had you been able to provide that insulin with quality fuel your gains would have been considerably better. JMHO.
"Victory is reserved for those who are willing to pay its price" - Sun Tzu
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Originally Posted by
babybull34
I agree with what lokthai is saying for a lot of supplements, as his words ring true. As is the case for BCAA, as you can get them from a typical diet, no real supplementation necessary. However, I would slightly disagree when it comes to EAA's.
All protein is broken down into AMino Acids, this is the state when they are actually available to build muscle and serve your body. There are two categories of amino acids, essential and non-essential. Non-esstential amino acids your body can create on its own. Essential Amino Acids cannot be made within the body and must be consumed via your diet.
Most protein rich diets will provide enough EAA's to fuel your body and to grow your muscles, so if your diet is on point you should be fine. But, there are still two situations in which supplementing with EAA's make sense, physiologically and financially.
The first is during (intra) and post workout when immediate access to EAA's is at it's highest. During this period, many take protein supplements or drink intra-workout drinks heavy in protein. The problem is that you still need to consume the protein and your body must break it don to EAA's before it can be utilized. By just supplying EAA's they are immediately available upon ingestion. This helps your body access the fuel it needs immediately, reducing any muscle catabolism, increasing nitrogen retention, and aiding in muscular growth.
The second situation is when you are cutting calories but still want to ensure that you are meeting and/or exceeding your protein needs while keeping calories down as well as unnecessary carbs and fat. But substituting with EAA's you can keep your protein high while maintaining your macros and keeping calories low to increase adipose loss.
There are many decent EAA's available which do not have a large costs, especially when compared to the cost of raw protein (Steak, chicken, turkey, eggs, etc.)
I personally just switched over to Humapro. Excellent source of EAA's, each servings is five pills which provides the equivalent EAA's of 25g of digestible protein (It is also available in a powder for intra and post drinks). There is no bloating, intestinal discomfort, and they are 99% bioavailable. Meaning no loss. Additionally, a serving has no fat, no carbs, and less than one calorie. Is it a replacement to whole food? Absolutely not. But it is a great SUPPLEMENT.
EAA's is one of the few supplements I spend money on. EAA's plus quality multivitamins, TUDCA, NAC, and Fish Oils. Everything else comes from raw food and AAS. Just my $0.02.
That's awesome, and I have another friend (bc) that loves humapro. Thanks for the information and confirmation bb, great stuff!
Sometimes you just have to decide who to trust and follow, if you want what they have do what they do. I started making good pre-gear gains when I started working out religiously, eating a ton, and taking creatine and some protein powder, and BCAA. Who knows if the supps did anything, but they seemed to. Now that I know how to eat and keep track of macros, etc, I believe I could probably go without supps but I think I'll stick with protein, try EAAs, preworkout, fish oil, joint relief. I know that one works, before I started glucosamine/chondroitin/msm my elbow pain was horrible. Been fine for years now.
Lots of good info here, I really like BOP
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Anybody here who wants to discuss bitter I'm the guy who knows bitterness and embraced it!
I'm not talking bitter soul or disposition (though i got that covered ) but as in high dose powder TUDCA in water!
I'm considering you guys/girls who run it down the hatch in a capsule borderline sissy's! 
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Originally Posted by
JD70
That's awesome, and I have another friend (bc) that loves humapro. Thanks for the information and confirmation bb, great stuff!
Sometimes you just have to decide who to trust and follow, if you want what they have do what they do. I started making good pre-gear gains when I started working out religiously, eating a ton, and taking creatine and some protein powder, and BCAA. Who knows if the supps did anything, but they seemed to. Now that I know how to eat and keep track of macros, etc, I believe I could probably go without supps but I think I'll stick with protein, try EAAs, preworkout, fish oil, joint relief. I know that one works, before I started glucosamine/chondroitin/msm my elbow pain was horrible. Been fine for years now.
Lots of good info here, I really like BOP
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Glad we could help you, JD. You are correct, BOP is an amazing resource and we are lucky to have it and be apart of it.
"Victory is reserved for those who are willing to pay its price" - Sun Tzu
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Originally Posted by
lokthai
Anybody here who wants to discuss bitter I'm the guy who knows bitterness and embraced it!
I'm not talking bitter soul or disposition (though i got that covered ) but as in high dose powder TUDCA in water!
I'm considering you guys/girls who run it down the hatch in a capsule borderline sissy's!
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Lokthai, you crack me up, brother! Honestly, I don't know if I could run TUDCA powder daily. That taste is INTENSE! I'm a sissy, lol
"Victory is reserved for those who are willing to pay its price" - Sun Tzu
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Originally Posted by
babybull34
Lokthai, you crack me up, brother! Honestly, I don't know if I could run TUDCA powder daily. That taste is INTENSE! I'm a sissy, lol
Well sissy's are people too. Its all good.
I seriously feel much better since i started taking TURDCA.
I taken a couple grams a day for about 8-10 weeks (gets expensive).
Could be the reason.. maybe not.
But from the research on it and all i know, i believe it is. It does way more than help with fatty liver according to the science on it.
Maybe I'm mind fucking myself into it because of what I've read... but i really don't think so.
Its hard with anecdotal evidence to establish cause and effect with these things. However its the nature of the beast.
I used to run labs almost monthly.
I got so tuned in i could closely tell the numerical values by how i felt. Thyroid, estro testo etc.., blood glucose ..
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Originally Posted by
lokthai
Well sissy's are people too. Its all good.
I seriously feel much better since i started taking TURDCA.
I taken a couple grams a day for about 8-10 weeks (gets expensive).
Could be the reason.. maybe not.
But from the research on it and all i know, i believe it is. It does way more than help with fatty liver according to the science on it.
Maybe I'm mind fucking myself into it because of what I've read... but i really don't think so.
Its hard with anecdotal evidence to establish cause and effect with these things. However its the nature of the beast.
I used to run labs almost monthly.
I got so tuned in i could closely tell the numerical values by how i felt. Thyroid, estro testo etc.., blood glucose ..
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I'm sold on TUDCA and NAC being legit. I take more (cycle assist or support) to be extra safe but think those 2 alone would suffice. Maybe Hawthorne for BP, it's in the cycle support.
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Originally Posted by
babybull34
I agree with what lokthai is saying for a lot of supplements, as his words ring true. As is the case for BCAA, as you can get them from a typical diet, no real supplementation necessary. However, I would slightly disagree when it comes to EAA's.
All protein is broken down into AMino Acids, this is the state when they are actually available to build muscle and serve your body. There are two categories of amino acids, essential and non-essential. Non-esstential amino acids your body can create on its own. Essential Amino Acids cannot be made within the body and must be consumed via your diet.
Most protein rich diets will provide enough EAA's to fuel your body and to grow your muscles, so if your diet is on point you should be fine. But, there are still two situations in which supplementing with EAA's make sense, physiologically and financially.
The first is during (intra) and post workout when immediate access to EAA's is at it's highest. During this period, many take protein supplements or drink intra-workout drinks heavy in protein. The problem is that you still need to consume the protein and your body must break it don to EAA's before it can be utilized. By just supplying EAA's they are immediately available upon ingestion. This helps your body access the fuel it needs immediately, reducing any muscle catabolism, increasing nitrogen retention, and aiding in muscular growth.
The second situation is when you are cutting calories but still want to ensure that you are meeting and/or exceeding your protein needs while keeping calories down as well as unnecessary carbs and fat. But substituting with EAA's you can keep your protein high while maintaining your macros and keeping calories low to increase adipose loss.
There are many decent EAA's available which do not have a large costs, especially when compared to the cost of raw protein (Steak, chicken, turkey, eggs, etc.)
I personally just switched over to Humapro. Excellent source of EAA's, each servings is five pills which provides the equivalent EAA's of 25g of digestible protein (It is also available in a powder for intra and post drinks). There is no bloating, intestinal discomfort, and they are 99% bioavailable. Meaning no loss. Additionally, a serving has no fat, no carbs, and less than one calorie. Is it a replacement to whole food? Absolutely not. But it is a great SUPPLEMENT.
EAA's is one of the few supplements I spend money on. EAA's plus quality multivitamins, TUDCA, NAC, and Fish Oils. Everything else comes from raw food and AAS. Just my $0.02.
This^^ all day long.
I have seen more muscle growth and fat loss just from using NutraBio INTRA workout powder (containts all your EAA’s and BCAA’s). I was skeptical at first as was my wife but I’ve seen better results after prolonged use.
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I do understand the fact of consuming too much of just the 3 bcaas and possibly throwing off the ratios of all the aminos in your body. In this case the eaa would make more sense but Im curious to see if there is actually any measurable difference
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A lot of studies are showing that BCAA's affect protein synthesis as much as glucose does 
But hey, BCAA's taste a lot better than EAA's
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